Solving the Debate Of Jack/Liz

nope... she just wants to cling to Jack cause he's hott, he's her hero, he's her role model. its not about the gun. plus you have to admit, for any adventuring gal, she's had a rough day... been in two major swordfights already, seen her fiance and had him basically reject her in favor of more important things, flirted her butt of with Jack and liked it, been nearly killed by sea monsters, and had her share of rum. The battle is beyond intense- everyone's dying, she's getting dragged around the ship, she's thinking she might have to kill Will to kill the kraken (cause he was dumb and got stuck) and honestly, sometimes a girl just wants a guy to step in and save her, which is exactly what Jack does.
that's hott. 🙂

Watch the "persuade me" scene on youtube without the sound off so you can look at just their expressions and their gestures. Liz says something like "Yes, Beckett did mention something about a chest." Notice where Jack suddenly looks. He's not looking directly at her face, if you know what I mean. He's looking a little lower. Liz flinches. Gibbs and Jack are close to her anyway to keep the conversation quiet, but we know Norrington can hear all of it. Gibbs and Jack let Liz know what's going on and Gibbs leaves. Liz turns and is startled by how close he is. This is an interrogation on just how she got these. So I think he took the "something about a chest" a little pervertedly and got the idea that Liz might have slept with Beckett. I think he's looking for something to throw into her face that she's just as bad as he is, but all her actions are usually for good causes. It's not until she chains him that she does exactly what he's been wanting her to. Whether or not that means they're going to be the couple, I have no idea! But that's what this scene is, pushing her for details to see just how bad she's willing to be.

yeah i totally agree with you!!! i always thought Jack was thinking she had slept with him--- and is obviously really glad she didnt, since Beckett is seriously his worst enemy ever

kate, u are one of the best ppl on this forum. lol Loved your list of great on-screen kisses!! Han and Leia's ESB kiss is DEFINITELY up there as one of the hottest kisses ever. Talk about smouldering. And I love Emma and Pride and Prejudice as well!

And Willofthewisp is also so right: Casablanca is one of my favorite movies of all time and the chemistry between Bogie and Bergman is one of the greatest depictions of passionate connection ever captured on film. Their kiss when she comes to find him in his loft above the club is without a doubt one of the most electrifying moments in the film.

YAYAYAYAYAY for hott movie kisses!!!! 🙂 i LOVE casablanca. i cant believe i forgot about that one.

i hope disney doesnt use that as inspiration though- send liz with will cause its the right thing and all... 🙁

I love the Persuade Me scene. It does have alot of underlying meanings. That is awesome the way he is standing so close to her - he does want to know how "bad" she can really be....boy does he ever find out in the end...that really turns him on, I think- it gives him courage to face the Kraken like a hero, instead of a coward - earlier throughout the movie he is kind of unhero like whenever the Kraken is mentioned - then in the end after the KISS of encouragement he is ready to face it like a MAN>........Don't ya'll love the Marriage conversation - she talks about wanting to be married "I'm so ready to be married" (I'm thinking she means "I'm so ready to have sesx" and so does Jack - he pulls out the bottle of rum) - remember on the deleted scene on the beach and they are drinking the rum and he says "how much rum" - thinking he can get her drunk and then you know what.......Jack definitely wants Lizzie - now does he thinks it's something that can go beyond flirting and a one-time fling? Who knows! But the kiss at the end - spells it out - yes they can - cuz Lizzie acts on that selfish impulse just to see what it was like.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Where is the hat theory? I've looked for it but can't find it.
Am I the only one who doesn't like Liz clinging to him like that? That was the only thing I absolutely hated. This was Liz, the girl that stabbed Barbosa, went back for Will all by herself, tricked the greatest pirate of all time and burned his rum! She convinced an entire ship she was a ghost and can swordfight with the best of them. I just don't think it fit her at all to do that. I understand all the other changes she went through, but I just don't think it was something she'd do. As much as her life's been in danger, it's the Kracken that makes her lose it and cling to the first guy she sees with a gun?

I really don't think this shot happen because he was the first guy she sees with a gun - do you really think this scene would have had the same effect if it were Mr. Gibbs, or Pintelli, or Ragetti - NO - this was not needed at all really. She could have just watched Jack pick up the gun and stayed there on the steps - OR run down the steps to catch Will when he fell - no, what does she do? Climb up the stairs and cling to Jack's Leg - that is a very telling scene - it shows IMO that she does think of Jack as her hero - she has hero worship for Jack - look at the way she has blind faith in him - Norrington even points it out "You're not actually going to believe him or you?" and "So you never wondered how your latest fiance ended up on the Flying Dutchman in the first place." and Liz herself says to Jack "Oh, I have faith in you..." She has an undying trust and faith in Jack despite everything, do you want to know why? Because she adores JACK and everything Jack stands for.
She just doesn't want to admit it - because she's not suppose to love Jack she's suppose to love Will.....

Originally posted by katelovespirate
here;s a question. in the scene where they are on the island and then Will shows up 🙁 hehehe... Liz actually seems really excited to see him. I dont know. this scene seems rather out of place or something. they kiss, they have a moment, they seem very couply and that sort of thing, the way Will holds her and the way she seems to like it.

Of course, all this vanishes a moment later when Will suggests she guard the chest, and she gets all angry again...

But then, back on the boat, she is leaning over him all concerned... but all he cares about is the chest.
I think some of Lizzie's decisions may have been made capriciously (as all women's are) based solely on what she is feeling then, which is probably a hint of rejection from Will. She came all across the ocean to find him (though some ulterior motives came out) and he shows up and only cares about the bloody chest. Heck, at that point i'd kiss anyone else to make him mad.Not that i think she kissed Jack to make Will mad, but i think that may have been some of it.

Jack and Liz just have this level of understanding that Will seems to be completely out of the loop of... if you know what i mean... when they are deciding to head for land, Jack and Liz share this look... i dont know.

So basically, whats up with those moments where Liz and Will are acting like they still like each other????

I've watch the Finding the Chest Scene - Liz runs to Will because she is glad to see him - she does still have feelings for him - but she will discover that they are not the same anymore....Plus, I think when Will is holding her and she looks back over her shoulder toward Jack and Norrington - her expression to me is kind of like "look, see Will's here and it's him I want...not Jack...." (but that's not what she really feels, she is trying to convince herself and show Norrington he's got it all wrong) Norrington SO knows Liz wants Jack - he's observed everything from the outside - he sees her undying trust in Jack, the flirtation going on - he knows the compass points to Jack when she holds it - and he knows the same about Jack - I love Jack's expression when Will tells them Jack tricked him onto the Flying Dutchman and Liz says "What" and Jacks like "What." Norrington just rolls his eyes, like come on you two...stop all this and just admit that you both want each other - just as he does right after the Persuade Me conversation "i would have given anything for you to LOOK LIKE THAT when thinking about me" (he is refering to her dreamy look when she thinks about Jack) - "I trust him that's all" and then with the compass "this compass doesn't work, and it definitely doesn't point to what you want most" - Norrington knows it pointed to Jack and again he just rolls his eyes like "oh, please"....Liz is mad, she thinks the compass doesn't work cuz it keeps pointing to Jack, not yet admitting that it does work and that Jack is what her heart desires most - that's what I picked up the very first time I saw the movie before all the analyzing and rewatching of movie and clips began. That was my first gut instinct......

i agree totally!
Jack and liz should end up together they suit each other way better than liz and will.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
nope... she just wants to cling to Jack cause he's hott, he's her hero, he's her role model. its not about the gun. plus you have to admit, for any adventuring gal, she's had a rough day... been in two major swordfights already, seen her fiance and had him basically reject her in favor of more important things, flirted her butt of with Jack and liked it, been nearly killed by sea monsters, and had her share of rum. The battle is beyond intense- everyone's dying, she's getting dragged around the ship, she's thinking she might have to kill Will to kill the kraken (cause he was dumb and got stuck) and honestly, sometimes a girl just wants a guy to step in and save her, which is exactly what Jack does.
that's hott. 🙂

LOL!!!!
I'd cling to jack as well if i had a day like hers. Damn Man! if looks could kill liz would have dropped dead in that boat when will asks where jack is.

it's so obvious she wants him. i mean take the persuade me scene for example she couldn't help smiling. then again where she chains up jack, she leans in again, and when they were all back at Tia Dalma's place she was the most distraught out of all of them.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I really don't think this shot happen because he was the first guy she sees with a gun - do you really think this scene would have had the same effect if it were Mr. Gibbs, or Pintelli, or Ragetti - NO - this was not needed at all really. She could have just watched Jack pick up the gun and stayed there on the steps - OR run down the steps to catch Will when he fell - no, what does she do? Climb up the stairs and cling to Jack's Leg - that is a very telling scene - it shows IMO that she does think of Jack as her hero - she has hero worship for Jack - look at the way she has blind faith in him - Norrington even points it out "You're not actually going to believe him or you?" and "So you never wondered how your latest fiance ended up on the Flying Dutchman in the first place." and Liz herself says to Jack "Oh, I have faith in you..." She has an undying trust and faith in Jack despite everything, do you want to know why? Because she adores JACK and everything Jack stands for.
She just doesn't want to admit it - because she's not suppose to love Jack she's suppose to love Will.....

Hear hear!!

She adores him because he is a pirate and a GOOD man... 💃

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I was thinking the other day..In the curiosity scene ..maybe she was secretly hoping he would Kiss her so that would mean he was a "bad man" who didn't respect her so that would give her a reason not to love him...but the fact he pulled away meant that she couldnt have that excuse...she was like "DAMN IT!!..Jack and his honest nature!!!gives me more reaon to fall for him"

Originally posted by tia dalma
it's so obvious she wants him. i mean take the persuade me scene for example she couldn't help smiling. then again where she chains up jack, she leans in again, and when they were all back at Tia Dalma's place she was the most distraught out of all of them.

Exactly, she is so into Jack every scene they have together - it's like it doesn't start out that way but whenever she's around him she can't help flirting with him and coming onto him....despite the fact she's SUPPOSE to be in love with Jack. I mean come on, can you honestly look at Captain Jack and not get carried away by his charm....but with Liz I think he gets caught up in flirting with her too - he's never met a woman like LIZ before - she definitely intrigues him....he's probably thinking "how can this feisty intelligent woman want to be settled down with Poor Old Boring Will...when she could have me."

I bet in the "hide the rum" "I happen to have no dress in my cabin" scene - when she sees Jack for the first time since the end of POTC 1 - I bet her heart drops to her feet, she's probably thinking "OMG I'd forgotten just how charming, sexy and gorgeous Captain Jack Sparrow is" she seems to be overwhelmed by all his flirting and sexual suggestions....she can't help smiling and being all giddy around Jack...

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Exactly, she is so into Jack every scene they have together - it's like it doesn't start out that way but whenever she's around him she can't help flirting with him and coming onto him....despite the fact she's SUPPOSE to be in love with Jack. I mean come on, can you honestly look at Captain Jack and not get carried away by his charm....but with Liz I think he gets caught up in flirting with her too - he's never met a woman like LIZ before - she definitely intrigues him....he's probably thinking "how can this feisty intelligent woman want to be settled down with Poor Old Boring Will...when she could have me."

I bet in the "hide the rum" "I happen to have no dress in my cabin" scene - when she sees Jack for the first time since the end of POTC 1 - I bet her heart drops to her feet, she's probably thinking "OMG I'd forgotten just how charming, sexy and gorgeous Captain Jack Sparrow is" she seems to be overwhelmed by all his flirting and sexual suggestions....she can't help smiling and being all giddy around Jack...

OOPS meant suppose to be in love with WILL - i've got Jack too much on the brain.

Oh My God! i agree totally "lovethemtigers". Geez, is there a scene when those two AREN'T flirting with each other.
OMG! i seriously need to get Jack off my brain.

I finally saw the deleted scenes of the first movie, and I'm more convinced than ever something is going on between Jack and Liz. The scenes on the island are very telling.

1. Liz explores the island as Jack sits moping about his lost Pearl. Liz soon finds she walked in a circle and is back to Jack. "Small, isn't it?" he says to her (or something). I think it was smart to delete it since it's mainly just comic relief, but states the obvious that Jack and Liz will have to depend on each other to survive.

2. Liz finds out how Jack got off the island and asks if his other stories are true. He shows her scars, tatoos, brands on his skin and is perfectly straight with her. I dont' recall him showing those to Will, who he spent more time with.

3. Peas in a pod. I think that says it all right there.