Solving the Debate Of Jack/Liz

All right for those who have been in the big debate on the other thread I am going to solve it using an essay.

First using all the theories and posting them here so that you people actually read them instead of getting into another argument.

1) The compass theory (IF you havent read it go back and read it on the other threads)
2) The hat theory (See number 9 too)
3) The fact that Jack is always there to rescue Liz but Will is not
4) When she clings to his leg at the end
5) The sexual conversations (Like curiosity and when he says he can preform a marriage on the boat)
6) The curiosity scene when Jack pulls away because of the black spot... everyone KNOWS that Jack wouldnt have pulled away if he didnt see it like we said go back and read more on this)
7) How Jack is always trying to get rid of Will, IE: When he knocks him out with the paddle ,
8) If you watch any of the Jack and Liz music videos on Youtube you will see how much of a jelous look Jack has when he watches Will kiss Liz
9) Liz's outfit as a pirate looks a lot like Jack's, normally people dress as who they want to be like. And when she has the same hat as Jacks it is the missing piece of Jack's costume that he needs and when he sees her for the first time she is wearing it.
10) Will sees Liz before the wedding- Bad luck (More is explained by others in the other thread)
11) Liz was facinated by pirates since she was a child, why else is she with Will in the beginning? Because she thought he was a pirate. Jack is a REAL pirate and is always rescuing her but Will is never there to save her.
12) Norrington and Dalma can obviously tell in many scenes that Liz really wants to be with Jack but is not admiting it (See other threads for the pictures posted)
13) The kiss before she leaves Jack chained to the boat... why else does she leave him there except the fact she is an Honorable lady and doesnt want to admit to herself that she has feelings for him even though she is with Will. She left him there as a sacrifice to save the others yes, but she also did it because she doesnt want to admit her true feelings for him and what would have happened if she let him go with them? This way she has no other choice but to stay with Will.

There are probably more but I put down as many as I remembered.

Here is a part of my essay explaining why Film Studies students think this way deeper into films then most people do:

IF you havent seen Sunset Boulevard and wish to see it do not read this, But if you dont give a crap then go ahead lol.

*****

Spoiler:
Norma desperately tries to stop Joe from leaving. When she does this it proves how much she wants to be with a part of society. She needs Joe to be there for her and to run her errands. She would probably have him write more with her and control him the rest of his life. Norma kills Joe because she wanted to stop him, and she did not want anyone else to have him.

IE: Liz leaves Jack chained to the boat because she doesnt want to admit who she really is JACK: "Pirate" And that she really has feelings for him.

This is how film Study students examine films. SO this is why a large amount of people see the deeper meaning behind Jack and Liz, end of story lol.

i agree 🙂

this is random but does anyone know where i can find like the link to youtube or something that shows wen there at the beach and liz runs and kisses will and like jack looks kinda jealous.

I agree with everything you said except the last...I think thats a pretty debatable one.

but it is an interesting way to look at it and it makes alot of sense.

It really did seem as if she was trying to pretend she was doing it for an honorable cause .. but then there is a little glimpse of what she really wants. Where she leans in as if to kiss him again and then says something that sounds more like a pirate "I'm not sorry"

.. If that whole betrayal of hers was just another burst of denial it would make alot of sense with the rest of the movie. which is every time she gets close to jack..theres the denial..and then the glimpse of her true feelings..happenes every time between the two.

That could explain that hateful look..its like kiss..then her trying to tell him with such an angry face "not a chance" trying to prove to herself and him that the kiss meant nothing....but then we see her slip again before the scene ends. She did that EVERY time jack got close to her.

Edited that post of mine^^^

Originally posted by brokenxxheart14
this is random but does anyone know where i can find like the link to youtube or something that shows wen there at the beach and liz runs and kisses will and like jack looks kinda jealous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj32JPpN5ns

Towards the time of 4:30 she runs to Will and...yeah.But the whole thing is pretty good.All about Jack and Lizzie.

I definetly agree with you Sweet Kat - I have said that before that I think she chains him there because she is scared of what she feels for him and this way she doens't have to hurt Will. That look she gives Jack is almost as if she's saying - this is for all the times you have lied to me and tricked me - I think it's all about her. But then she looks like she's about to kiss him again because she just can't resist him, "I'm not sorry" - but he's smiling and looking so cocky even after she has outfoxed him because she has just proven everything he has ever told her "you will come over to my side. you want to know why? one word, Curiosity. You won't to do what you want to do, because you want to..One day you will give into a selfish impulse, you won't be able to resist" that's his argument to her about why they are alike -why they could possibly be a couple (you and I, I-you, us) - go watch curiosity scene on Youtube.com - why she is a pirate like him - that's why he growls at her, "PIRATE". Check-mate.

I don't know about you all, but I cannot wait to see what will Happen in Pirates 3 when jack and Liz see other again after that last scene - I think it's going to be tension filled and full of sparks. Or at least I hope so......it would make no sense if it's not.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I definetly agree with you Sweet Kat - I have said that before that I think she chains him there because she is scared of what she feels for him and this way she doens't have to hurt Will. That look she gives Jack is almost as if she's saying - this is for all the times you have lied to me and tricked me - I think it's all about her. But then she looks like she's about to kiss him again because she just can't resist him, "I'm not sorry" - but he's smiling and looking so cocky even after she has outfoxed him because she has just proven everything he has ever told her "you will come over to my side. you want to know why? one word, Curiosity. You won't to do what you want to do, because you want to..One day you will give into a selfish impulse, you won't be able to resist" that's his argument to her about why they are alike -why they could possibly be a couple (you and I, I-you, us) - go watch curiosity scene on Youtube.com - why she is a pirate like him - that's why he growls at her, "PIRATE". Check-mate.

I honestly dont think its becuase she feels a hatred towards him If she felt a hatred towards him then in no way would she be falling for him throughout the movie...its just a denial of her feelings..she can see that they are developing more and she wants to put an end to it before it comes out in the open. I honestly DONT think that she hates himfor all the times he got her in trouble..she might be annoyed by the fact he is getting under her skin..she would probably see that as his fault.

Actually..that last moment where he comes back for her and she hugs his leg probably meant so much to her and at that point she realises "SHIT I cant let this continue, I have to cut him off or who knows what I might do.."

I think that look is not of hatred..it is her saying "not a chance jack the kiss means nothing" but then you clearly see her slip and go to kiss him again...something she does repeatedly throughout the movie...its: get close then "not a chance Jack" then a slip..then denial again...its like a cycle..

eh I thought you were on our side lovely one lol 😛

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I honestly dont think its becuase she feels a hatred towards him If she felt a hatred towards him then in no way would she be falling for him throughout the movie...its just a denial of her feelings..she can see that they are developing more and she wants to put an end to it before it comes out in the open. I honestly DONT think that she hates himfor all the times he got her in trouble..she might be annoyed by the fact he is getting under her skin..she would probably see that as his fault.

Actually..that last moment where he comes back for her and she hugs his leg probably meant so much to her and at that point she realises "SHIT I cant let this continue, I have to cut him off or who knows what I might do.."

I think that look is not of hatred..it is her saying "not a chance jack the kiss means nothing" but then you clearly see her slip and go to kiss him again...something she does repeatedly throughout the movie...its get close then"not a chance Jack" then a slip..then denial again...its like a cycle..

Yeah I get what you are saying. I didn't mean that she hated him...it's more like you said -it's almost like she's mostly frustrated with herself for having these feelings for him. The scene where she hugs his leg is a symbolism of how much she has come to depend on him - Jack is her hero. (refer to Sweet Kat's - Jack is always there to rescue her, never Will. Without Jack, Will would never have saved Liz from Barboorsa)Yeah maybe she does give him that look to say "although I kissed you it doesn't mean anything" - but it really does. Everyone who agrees that she is in love with Jack knows what we are trying to say here - she loves him - but she doesn't want to admit it, she fights it - and chaining him to the ship is her desperate, impulsive move to prove to herself and him that she is not hooked on him. That's why she is crying so much in the end - she did something so horrible because of her intense desire for Jack - now she has done something stupid all because she is afraid of what she feels for him - Oh I'm going on and on too much, sorry.

Originally posted by sweet_kat22
eh I thought you were on our side lovely one lol 😛

She is I think what Lovely One means - it's Liz trying desperately to hide what she secretly desires - it's that whole forbidden love thing, ya know.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Yeah I get what you are saying. I didn't mean that she hated him...it's more like you said -it's almost like she's mostly frustrated with herself for having these feelings for him. The scene where she hugs his leg is a symbolism of how much she has come to depend on him - Jack is her hero. (refer to Sweet Kat's - Jack is always there to rescue her, never Will. Without Jack, Will would never have saved Liz from Barboorsa)Yeah maybe she does give him that look to say "although I kissed you it doesn't mean anything" - but it really does. Everyone who agrees that she is in love with Jack knows what we are trying to say here - she loves him - but she doesn't want to admit it, she fights it - and chaining him to the ship is her desperate, impulsive move to prove to herself and him that she is not hooked on him. That's why she is crying so much in the end - she did something so horrible because of her intense desire for Jack - now she has done something stupid all because she is afraid of what she feels for him - Oh I'm going on and on too much, sorry.

No no no you totally make 100% sense. And the fact she did that for herself was the selfish act. I think I was wrong about the whole knowing he could escape thing.It was more about her trying to prove a point to herself..thus doing it for selfish reasons 🙂 Or maybe she did know they could escape but her wanting to put a stop to the whole thing between them overruled that possibility..

I didnt actually notice it before.. I didnt pick up on it until you and sweetkat brought more attention t it 🙂 thanks

Jack saw right through her though lol.

^^ Yea, I think that's what she means.....

Originally posted by LovelyOne
its like a cycle.

Yes......a vicious one.....even the TRAILORS for POTC 3 are going to be a SUPER big deal to us LOL.....again I say.......at least we don't have to wait long for those..........being on the DVD for 2 and all......

Even the kiss could have been that its like her telling herself: "yes I wanted to try it" then "not a chance means nothing" then "ohh I want it again" then "no i'm leaving!" then "damn I want him back"..

friggin up and down like a yo yo man..

^^ exactly, all that is going to be resolved in the next movie..........

YAY 😄 ^^^^ I hope it turns out like star wars lol.

Sweetkat and katelovespirate you just gave me a whole new level of understanding with that last scene. For some reason it was just flying right past my head. 😂

Its like at the end Jack just satisfied her again by saying pirate and she tried to make it look like it didn't. He keeps getting under her skin and she hates herself for allowing him to get to her like that..

Yep, this is why I made this post to prove why we think the way we do about Jack and Liz. And everything we pointed out is true behind the creation of film. Directors like to hide bits and pieces that only those who have been through film studies will notice. No one really understands the deep meaning of films until they learn more about them.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Even the kiss could have been that its like her telling herself: "yes I wanted to try it" then "not a chance means nothing" then "ohh I want it again" then "no i'm leaving!" then "damn I want him back"..

friggin up and down like a yo yo man..

OMG - I've just had a new insight based on all these new discussions. I just got through watching the Kiss - LIz's last words to Jack "this is the only way, don't you see." The way they are looking into each other eyes. It's her way of telling him although they both want each other they can never be together because of Will - with you out of the picture neither one of us has to hurt Will - so I'm sacrificing you to the Kraken - because it is after you anyways and Davy Jones will not give up trying to collect his debt - Jack's Soul.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Even the kiss could have been that its like her telling herself: "yes I wanted to try it" then "not a chance means nothing" then "ohh I want it again" then "no i'm leaving!" then "damn I want him back"..

friggin up and down like a yo yo man..

It's like Jack is a Drug for her - she knows she shouldn't want him, but she does. It's so damn sexy the whole theory.....Forbidden Love.
To break the "bad" habit - she will leave him to die.