Solving the Debate Of Jack/Liz

You know what really strikes me about Jack. Like katelovespirate once said..he seems to...not actually know what to do when Liz comes on to him. He says that he is this amazing stud of a man who can get who he wants(rockstar)...but with Liz..he's not all that confident. When he does show this "confidence"..its pretty clear that he cant keep his cool for long..the frustrated grunts and stuff.

I seriously believe that Liz is getting under his skin so much just like he is getting under hers.

Like he tries hard to flirt with her..and when he actually caught her off guard he couldnt contain himself 😂 When ever she gives him the chance..he looks as if he is completley thrown off his feet..he's stunned by her..he lets her lead all the time..I think that he is very afraid of letting her in closer to him..I bet that comes in to play next time..Liz is going to try an get close to him but he is going to look afraid..This will cause liz to realise that he is actually very sensitive around her..which will make her realise that she means something different to his other women he's been with.

liz and jack forever

LOL couldnt resist mate.

it just makes so much sense. my biggest thing right now is after watching the commentary, and reading a few interviews, it seems to be that JD sees the age difference between him and Liz to be hilarious- he is always making fun of jack in the 1st one's commentary, for cradle robbing and stuff... i can just imagine what the 2nd commentary will be like. But i dont know how he would feel about Liz and Jack getting together... lol.

but hey, he's not the writer. LOL. 🙂

LOl the way he says "poor bastard thinks he has a chance" 😂

Thats the thing.is Johnny's concern going to shape how it ends with Liz in the last movie? He might be against it..and yes he's not the writer..but they do seem to listen to his want/needs for the character a whole lot 🙁

Bit if he realised that this could be a huge way to show a breakthrough in his character...he might accept it, he already has with the latest movie..It probably is going to be the huge breakthrough for the character in the last movie..he can let someone close to him..

Its funny you know.. Jack knows that Liz is the only one who has seen him laid bare...and she STILL respects him..I bet that means a bunch to him..

Originally posted by katelovespirate
LOL couldnt resist mate.

it just makes so much sense. my biggest thing right now is after watching the commentary, and reading a few interviews, it seems to be that JD sees the age difference between him and Liz to be hilarious- he is always making fun of jack in the 1st one's commentary, for cradle robbing and stuff... i can just imagine what the 2nd commentary will be like. But i dont know how he would feel about Liz and Jack getting together... lol.

but hey, he's not the writer. LOL. 🙂

Yeah I think Johnny is really hung up on the age difference - but that's in real life - this is just a movie so Hopefully he will agree to whatever's necessary to make the film the huge success it needs to be - which is his character,Jack, with Keira's Elizabeth....yeah in one interview he is like "she's 3 and I am a thousand."

Thing is even Orlando is about 8 years older than her she's 21 and he's 29..

Norrington is PRETTY old compared with her..It was pretty normal for woman to go of with a much older man back then..

I was just thinking..do you think Jack said to her "pirate" so it would make her leave before the kraken comes..She looks as if she isn't going to leave until she gets some sort of validation from him..

I also dont think that little hesitation before the kiss was one of "eww I dont want to do it". She most certainly took the most advatage of it that she could before chaining him up...Maybe it was the fear of "If I kiss him now ..I'm going to find it harder to leave him" we see that it does make it harder for her to leave him later on in the scene..

there was no hesitation, LOL... she wanted it bad. i think in some ways Liz is still a bit intimidated by Jack- he is SOOOOOO everything she wants, he is so completely full of charm and charisma, and he has just proven himself to be a man of principles. ya know? i mean, no matter how braggy and bold I was, i would find that a bit intimidating, in a good way...

hey you, I'm new here and I have to tell you that I LOVE your discussions aboout Jack+Liz 😄

I managed to read all the 11 pages although my English isn't perfect because I come from Austria and now I have to tell you what I think 🙂

so let's go... where to start...

the first time I saw POTC 2, which was actually in Oxford where I was on holiday, my HEART NEARLY STOPPED when Jack and Liz kissed 😂
I was a huge Will Turner/Elizabeth fan until this moment and I was so shocked ^^ and even more shocked when Will SAW them two kissing *rofl*

and now 🙂 I LIKE the idea of Jack + Liz coming together. they're such a perfect couple.
BUT I also know that it won't happen *sigh*
I mean, DISNEY! the straight and small guy HAS to marry the fine woman. That's it. I don't want to kill your and also MY illusions 😄 no, I really don't want to ^^ but all the logical thoughts lead to the fact that Jack+Liz can't stay together ... I suggest that Will+Liz will break up in the 3rd one and it's JACK who brings them together again 🙂 you see, he's a good man, isn't he? a good PIRATE, but a good man too ^^
there are some rumors about a 4th movie and I really can't imagine that Jack+Liz will go through another adventure TOGETHER, without Will. or could YOU imagine them being MARRIED and sailing the Black Pearl?,
*gg*

long text, short meaning: I really LOVE Jack+Liz being together 😎 but my hopes aren't strong ^^

so, I'll get dressed now and try to get out of my thoughts around drop-dead-gorgeous pirates. I'm SURE I'll be smiling through the whole movie tonight ^^

cya all, mondi

We have been thinking the same thing..It is Disney movie but the the PotC movies seem to be very different to the usual Disney films. The screen writers for the movie have said that they don't like to add typical book ends into their stories..

Our hopes aren't all that strong either 🙁 But we have found so much that points to them being together..We just want to know how Disney are going to wriggle out of it now that they have basically set the story up for a Jack/Liz thing..

I have a feeling that Will Isn't going to come across as the decent good natured man that we are used to in the next one... Seeing Liz do that is probably going to change him..he's going to start hating pirates even more.. I can see him joining up with the enemies: The east India Trading Company.

yes LovelyOne i agree with you there- i mean, he was basically working for them in the 2nd one at the beginning... when he could have just sprung lizzie from jail (since he knows how to open the jail doors) and they could have run off together. Instead he decides to work for Beckett. stupid.

i know i keep complaining that disney worked themselves into a corner here and it was silly to spend the whole 1st movie focusing on one relationship, and then completely switch in the whole 2nd movie, but honestly, i am very glad it happened. i am so glad they took that risk. disney is just too much about happily ever after (as the first one ended) when, in life, things dont just stop at happily ever after. other people come along and change things. like in this film. 🙂

Originally posted by katelovespirate
yes LovelyOne i agree with you there- i mean, he was basically working for them in the 2nd one at the beginning... when he could have just sprung lizzie from jail (since he knows how to open the jail doors) and they could have run off together. Instead he decides to work for Beckett. stupid.

i know i keep complaining that disney worked themselves into a corner here and it was silly to spend the whole 1st movie focusing on one relationship, and then completely switch in the whole 2nd movie, but honestly, i am very glad it happened. i am so glad they took that risk. disney is just too much about happily ever after (as the first one ended) when, in life, things dont just stop at happily ever after. other people come along and change things. like in this film. 🙂

I'm glad too..If they wanted to make it so it would end up Will/Liz..then why make this whole "Will distracted" story line..They have the chance with this movie and the next one to develop the Jack/Liz thing further and Its kinda clear that they have decided to go with the Jack/Liz thing..If it was meant to be Will in the future then there wouldn't be so much effort to make them grow apart as characters..

I gotta just say something else lol:

Norrington is one CRAFTY mo fo during that scene where he spots Liz smirking over Jack.

He loves liz still its obvious..and he KNOWS that Liz is in love with Jack..Norrington KNOWS what her heart really wants so he is certain that the compass will point to Jack when she looks at it..so what does he go and do?

He makes her wonder how Will got onto the Dutchman so it will make her look at the compass and he knows its going to point to Jack because of her hearts desire.. but SHE will be thinking its showing her who did that to Will.. this gives Norrington more of a chance with her now because he has shaken her up over jack.. 😂 sly Mr fox..

norrington is kinda hott when he is being all bad and betraying everyone.

i fancy, one of his conditions of working for beckett will be getting Liz once Jack and Will are out of the picture.

hey guys 🙂

maybe there won't be a typical Disney ending, could happen.

BUT as I said, I've been in the movie yesterday again and I have to say:

compared to all your emotional constructs and theories (e.g. hat-theorie, I like that one ^^), the film is really poor 😆

I think you've created a Jack/Liz myth and that's why I was a little disappointed when I didn't feel all the tension and feelings you perfectly described when I was watching the movie 😄

well... never mind 🙂

and yeah, norrington IS kind of hot when he's a 'wobbly legged always drunken pirate' ^^

best wishes to all of you, mondi...

some may be myths lol,,but most of it is based on what we see..film studies students tend to look past whats on the surface and see whats really going on..You have to look at each scene between them and compare it with the overall theme of the movie and how that scene fis in with the theme and also every other scene in the movie..its confusing hard work lol.

The middle of the first star wars trilogy was a disappointment to many at the time..but once the third came out the middle one became the firm favorite of the fans. It fitted in perfectly with the trilogy..I feel this might happen with this PotC movie..its the part in the trilogy where there are so many questions raised but not answered so it confuses the audience a tad..they will be though..and I'm sure this movie will be well liked once the next one comes out..it will fit in perfectly with the trilogy..

how was it disappointing?!! there was SOOOOOOO much tension. they flirted, they bantered, they slung about the caribbean together, they made out.... whats not to LOVE?!

😆

I only feel that you are looking TOO depp behind the scenes ^^
Sure, JD or even the others really LIVE their characters and try to present a whole person with all background. BUT I'm not quite sure if they know what speculations they start when they just...MOVE, you know? 😄 Jack Sparrow only has to give Liz the slightest look and BOOM, you know all his feelings and thoughts and also her's 🙄

so, you're wizzards and all actors are gods OR your fantasy is even bigger than mine *hihi*

that's all I'm saying, let's wait together for the third one and you can proof me wrong, lads 😉
It's a great movie, no doubt! and I REALLY didn't want to offend the hardcore Jack/Liz lovers (just in case...)

drink up me hearties, yo-ho

Originally posted by katelovespirate
how was it disappointing?!! there was SOOOOOOO much tension. they flirted, they bantered, they slung about the caribbean together, they made out.... whats not to LOVE?!

Ditto to what i said earlier. LOL. Whats not to love?!?!

Plus, we are all just crazy fans who have had too much schooling in looking too deeply into things (like films and novels.) so OBVIOUSLY we dont know what the actor was ACTUALLY intending on portraying, but you have to admit, our theories are pretty clever. of course we have no idea what will happen. thats the fun of it!!! 🙂 its a mystery....

we will probably be all wrong on about half of the stuff we cook up, but who cares. we are having fun.

and if the actors are as great as they appear onscreen, they do their homework. they dont make a single move without knowing in-depth motivation behind that move (even if it is just a blink) and doing extensive character and plot analysis to make sure it is consistent with the tone of the scene, etc. Its called method acting, if you read anything by Stanislovski or Meisner. It involves a lot of research and character analysis. 🙂

but as you said, we are just ignorant fans playing about with our fantasies, which is more than partially true!!! 🙂 YAY us!!!!

Originally posted by mondenschein
😆

I only feel that you are looking TOO depp behind the scenes ^^
Sure, JD or even the others really LIVE their characters and try to present a whole person with all background. BUT I'm not quite sure if they know what speculations they start when they just...MOVE, you know? 😄 Jack Sparrow only has to give Liz the slightest look and BOOM, you know all his feelings and thoughts and also her's 🙄

so, you're wizzards and all actors are gods OR your fantasy is even bigger than mine *hihi*

that's all I'm saying, let's wait together for the third one and you can proof me wrong, lads 😉
It's a great movie, no doubt! and I REALLY didn't want to offend the hardcore Jack/Liz lovers (just in case...)

drink up me hearties, yo-ho

he gives her a look..yes but you have to think about WHAT his character is all about and THEN you can see what it means to that character..We have seen, read and listened to info on the character of Jack sparrow..and we use that knowledge with what we see him do in this movie..and we link it back to the main theme..which is LIZ falling for Jack which causes her to chain him up..so she must be seeing something change in him to fall for him..and IMO its because JAck is starting to show feelings for her and less feelings for his material possessions "she's onlya ship mate" "forget the hat"..He showed her that he can care for her right at the end when he came back for her...that scared her more than anything..thats why she felt she had to get rid of him..because he IS getting close to her and she to him..but she cant accept it just yet. So she removes the temptaion...

agreed 🙄

OK what ever..stop trying to make it seem as if we don't know what we are talking about..

I didn't spend 3 years studying films in college to be called a fan girl who makes up myths based on nothing..🙄 I'm not a fan girl at all.. I see beneath whats shoved in our faces with movies and I write about it..just because you don't have that depth when it comes to movies doesn't mean that the messages and character development isn't there..Its just that you are blind to them..don't criticise what you don't understand.. 😉