Do you have to believe in God to get into Heaven?

Originally posted by mahasattva
How is it possible for someone to write his own obituary centuries after his own death? The above shows that these books that are allegedly written by Moses were actually written many centuries after his death when even no trace of his tomb was left. The fact that no one knew of the exact place of his burial is also an indication that he was either a legendary an mythological figure or was not important enough for Israelis to keep track of his tomb or make him a shrine. Even if there ever existed a person with the name of Moses, all the stories attributed to him are fabrications of the later priests who forged the entire Bible as it has been demonstrated by many modern Biblical scholars.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity were originally monotheistic religions. Then who is the father of monotheism? To whom shall we give the credit for this new theology that inseminated intolerance and is responsible for many wars amongst the nations as each claimed to be the chosen people of the most-High and the only ones with the truth?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Scripture says "The Spirit returns to god that gave it"........We all go BACK TO WHERE WE CAME FROM........There IS NO HELL!!

OK, got it ...good... 🙂

In relation to the title-question:
Every religious person I've ever met (in person) has said so....

Originally posted by Alliance
Is that an offical crime? I'm just sick of "i have a question and I cnat figure it out so I'm oging to make a new thread and make toher people figure things out for me and then I'm oging to get really angsty when I don't like their answer" threads.

Umm yeah, that wasn't what I was doing, and I suggest you don't assume, you know what they say about those that assume....
This was going to be a debate thread, you need to chill

Originally posted by debbiejo
Scripture says "The Spirit returns to god that gave it"........We all go BACK TO WHERE WE CAME FROM........There IS NO HELL!!

OK, got it ...good... 🙂

Hades (Hell) is a holding place, a prison; but a place of torment as well that was originally created for the devil and his angels (demons). But hell is also a place of disembodied spirits of people who have died in their sins. These people's unforgiven sins are what keep them from God's presence. That's why God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the whole world so that we could go into God's presence when we die instead of to Hades (Hell).

Now to pick up where you left off:

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

At a set time God will summon all disembodied human spirits to His throne for judgment. Everyone person who has ever lived who has rejected Christ's payment for their sins will pay for their own sins. Every sin that each person has ever committed has been recorded in the books. One more Book will be opened: the Book of Life. If any person's name is not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life then that person is lost forever. He/she will pay for every sin that has been recorded in the books under their name.

Revelation 20:12-13
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

That's why Jesus died for you, was beaten for you, spit on for you, tortured for you because He knows that without His righteous, holy blood, our sins could not be forgiven. His holy sinless life made Him the only candidate qualified to die for the sins of the world. You cannot take a sinner and punish a sinner in place of another sinner, because that sinner has his own sins to pay for. You need someone who is innocent and willing to pay for your sin so that you will be let off the hook. Jesus is that innocent Lamb of God who gave up His life so that we could live. Jesus paid our sins in full. But you have to reach out to Him and tell Him (Jesus) I want what You did for me otherwise it will not benefit you. Then when you die you will pay for your own sins to the full extent of God’s law, with no mercy. That’s why God sent Jesus. Can’t you see? He does not want anyone to have to pay for their own sins for eternity. Jesus already paid for the world’s sin. Don’t die in your sins (i.e. don’t die without accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior). Die forgiven. Those who die in Christ die forgiven. Then their disembodied spirits go to be with God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) in Heaven forever.

AMEEN ^^

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hades (Hell) is a holding place, a prison; but a place of torment as well that was originally created for the devil and his angels (demons). But hell is also a place of disembodied spirits of people who have died in their sins. These people's unforgiven sins are what keep them from God's presence. That's why God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the whole world so that we could go into God's presence when we die instead of to Hades (Hell).

Now to pick up where you left off:

[B]Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

At a set time God will summon all disembodied human spirits to His throne for judgment. Everyone person who has ever lived who has rejected Christ's payment for their sins will pay for their own sins. Every sin that each person has ever committed has been recorded in the books. One more Book will be opened: the Book of Life. If any person's name is not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life then that person is lost forever. He/she will pay for every sin that has been recorded in the books under their name.

Revelation 20:12-13
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

That's why Jesus died for you, was beaten for you, spit on for you, tortured for you because He knows that without His righteous, holy blood, our sins could not be forgiven. His holy sinless life made Him the only candidate qualified to die for the sins of the world. You cannot take a sinner and punish a sinner in place of another sinner, because that sinner has his own sins to pay for. You need someone who is innocent and willing to pay for your sin so that you will be let off the hook. Jesus is that innocent Lamb of God who gave up His life so that we could live. Jesus paid our sins in full. But you have to reach out to Him and tell Him (Jesus) I want what You did for me otherwise it will not benefit you. Then when you die you will pay for your own sins to the full extent of God’s law, with no mercy. That’s why God sent Jesus. Can’t you see? He does not want anyone to have to pay for their own sins for eternity. Jesus already paid for the world’s sin. Don’t die in your sins (i.e. don’t die without accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior). Die forgiven. Those who die in Christ die forgiven. Then their disembodied spirits go to be with God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) in Heaven forever. [/B]

It is only partially true that Jesus forgives sins. According to Christianity, after people are created they will live forever - first for a few decades on earth and then for eternity in either heaven or hell. Jesus will forgive people's sins while they live in the world but for the rest of eternity he will refuse to do so, no matter how frequently or how pitifully the souls in hell may call upon his name. So Jesus' forgiveness is limited to a minute period of time in a person's existence after which he will withhold it. So most people will never escape from the consequences of their supposed sin.

Human beings have long ascribed to fate, or destiny or even God’s will problems they felt powerless to resist, resigning themselves to these perceived forces. The ancient Greeks, which Christians influenced much of its beleifs, envisioned three elderly goddesses—the Fates—who controlled people’s lives. The goddess Clotho determined birth, spinning the thread of human life; Lachesis dispensed that thread, steering the path a person would follow in life; and Atropos cut the thread thus determining an individual’s moment of death.

This attitude—that all in life is predetermined or inalterable—is not limited to people of old; it exerts an influence on the hearts and minds of many living today. Expressing frustration over this tendency, British author and essayist George Orwell wrote: “For the ordinary man is passive. Within a narrow circle . . . he feels himself master of his fate, but against major events he is as helpless as against the elements. So far from endeavoring to influence the future, he simply lies down and lets things happen to him.”

The idea that something other than ourselves controls our destiny can in one sense be seen as a form of avoidance—a rationalization to escape facing and challenging real problems and suffering. It may also be an expression of a deep, subconscious sense of helplessness.

Buddhism teaches the solution to human suffering and provides a way to overcome or transform this sense of helplessness. Ultimately, it teaches that the cause of misery lies not with any external force or circumstance, but with ourselves. Buddhism looks nowhere beyond the sufferer for both the cause and the solution to suffering.

According to Shakyamuni Buddha: “If a person commits an act of good or evil, he him-self becomes the heir to that action. This is because that action actually never disappears.”

Can Buddhists escape from their karma? The doctrine of karma teaches that every action (kamma) has an effect (vipaka). However this effect is not always equal to its cause. For example, if a person steals something this act will have a negative effect. If however after the theft the person feels remorse, returns the stolen article, and sincerely resolves to try to be more careful in the future, the negative effect of the theft may be mitigated. There would still be an effect although not as strong. But even if the thief does not mitigate the wrong which has been done with some good, he or she will be free from the deed after its effect comes to fruition. So according to Buddhism we can be free from our kamma while according to Christianity our sins will only be forgiven during an extremely limited period of time.

There are other ways in which the doctrine of kamma is better than the Christian ideas of forgiveness and punishment. In Buddhism while one may have to endure the negative effects of the evil one has done (which is only fair) this means that one will experience the positive effects of the good one has done as well. This is not so in Christianity. For example, a non-Christian may be honest, merciful, generous and kind yet despite this at death this person will go to hell and not receive any reward for the good he or she has done. Furthermore, according to the doctrine of kamma the effects we experience, all things being equal, are in direct proportion to their cause. Again this is not so in Christianity - even if a person is exceptionally evil during this life, eternal hell is an utterly disproportionate punishment. How much more is this so if the person is virtuous but non-Christian? Indeed the eternity of hell, and the idea that all non-Christians are condemned to it, are teachings which cast very serious doubts on the concept of a just and loving God.

He judges justly. No one is innocent for "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". That is the just part.
The love part is the my favorite. Anyone, no matter what they have done can be forgiven and cleanse of their sin by the blood of Jesus. Thus, when Judgement Day comes they will be found innocent because their sins have been washed away. Jesus went to the cross to bear OUR sin FOR US so that we can come to the Father. If you have not been forgiven, all your sins, no matter how minor, will be plain and obvious to God and you will be punished for them.

Originally posted by Nellinator
He judges justly. No one is innocent for "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". That is the just part.
The love part is the my favorite. Anyone, no matter what they have done can be forgiven and cleanse of their sin by the blood of Jesus. Thus, when Judgement Day comes they will be found innocent because their sins have been washed away. Jesus went to the cross to bear OUR sin FOR US so that we can come to the Father. If you have not been forgiven, all your sins, no matter how minor, will be plain and obvious to God and you will be punished for them.

All life is good and evil. The idea that we are born of sin is an insult to the beauty of life. I understand what you are saying because I used to believe it myself, but it is a lie that has been told for thousands of years. It blinds people from the truth that they have the potential to be greater then the class they were born into. If people could do and be what they wanted, then the people in power would not be able to control and use the masses.

Hades (Hell) is a holding place, a prison; but a place of torment as well that was originally created for the devil and his angels (demons). But [Quote]hell is also a place of disembodied spirits of people who have died in their sins. These people's unforgiven sins are what keep them from God's presence. That's why God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the whole world so that we could go into God's presence when we die instead of to Hades (Hell).

1.. Gehenna was a well-known locality near Jerusalem, and ought no more to be translated Hell, than should Sodom or Gomorrah. See Josh. 15: 8; II Kings 17: 10; II Chron. 28: 3; Jer. 7: 31, 32; 19: 2.

2.. Gehenna is never employed in the Old Testament to mean anything else than the place with which every Jew was familiar.

The first Christian writer who calls Hell Gehenna is Justin Martyr who wrote about A. D. 150.

Neither Christ nor his apostles ever named it to Gentiles, but only to Jews which proves it a locality only known to Jews, whereas, if it were a place of punishment after death for sinners, it would have been preached to Gentiles as well as Jews. Only Jesus and James ever named it. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jude ever employ it. Would they not have warned sinners concerning it, if there were a Gehenna of torment after death? Gehenna is never said to be of endless duration nor spoken of as destined to last forever, so that even admitting the popular ideas of its existence after death it gives no support to the idea of endless torment.. Clement, a Universalist, used Gehenna to describe his ideas of punishment. He was one of the earliest of the Christian Fathers. The word did not then denote endless punishment.

Actual photos of hell.

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellPhotos/index.htm

And again, why didn't Moses mention it when he recieved those 10 commandments??........He NEVER NEVER EVER...NEVER NEVER EVER did......Not once, not twice......NEVER!......Never even hinted at it!! ...ever ever ever........never......

why?? 🙄

Originally posted by Nellinator
He judges justly. No one is innocent for "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". That is the just part.
The love part is the my favorite. Anyone, no matter what they have done can be forgiven and cleanse of their sin by the blood of Jesus. Thus, when Judgement Day comes they will be found innocent because their sins have been washed away. Jesus went to the cross to bear OUR sin FOR US so that we can come to the Father. If you have not been forgiven, all your sins, no matter how minor, will be plain and obvious to God and you will be punished for them.

In Buddhism, we have to work out our own salvation. We don’t expect a savior to do it for us. Again, the idea that something other than ourselves controls our destiny(i.e. salvation) can in one sense be seen as a form of avoidance—a rationalization to escape facing and challenging real problems and suffering. It may also be an expression of a deep, subconscious sense of helplessness.

With regard to karma, as I understand it, Christians don’t believe that every volitional action has a consequence. Instead, they ask for forgiveness so as to erase the previous error. This, as I see it, can lead to immorality as there are no actual consequences for inappropriate actions.

Originally posted by mahasattva
It is only partially true that Jesus forgives sins. According to Christianity, after people are created they will live forever - first for a few decades on earth and then for eternity in either heaven or hell. Jesus will forgive people's sins while they live in the world but for the rest of eternity he will refuse to do so, no matter how frequently or how pitifully the souls in hell may call upon his name. So Jesus' forgiveness is limited to a minute period of time in a person's existence after which he will withhold it. So most people will never escape from the consequences of their supposed sin.

Human beings have long ascribed to fate, or destiny or even God’s will problems they felt powerless to resist, resigning themselves to these perceived forces. The ancient Greeks, which Christians influenced much of its beleifs, envisioned three elderly goddesses—the Fates—who controlled people’s lives. The goddess Clotho determined birth, spinning the thread of human life; Lachesis dispensed that thread, steering the path a person would follow in life; and Atropos cut the thread thus determining an individual’s moment of death.

This attitude—that all in life is predetermined or inalterable—is not limited to people of old; it exerts an influence on the hearts and minds of many living today. Expressing frustration over this tendency, British author and essayist George Orwell wrote: “For the ordinary man is passive. Within a narrow circle . . . he feels himself master of his fate, but against major events he is as helpless as against the elements. So far from endeavoring to influence the future, he simply lies down and lets things happen to him.”

The idea that something other than ourselves controls our destiny can in one sense be seen as a form of avoidance—a rationalization to escape facing and challenging real problems and suffering. It may also be an expression of a deep, subconscious sense of helplessness.

Buddhism teaches the solution to human suffering and provides a way to overcome or transform this sense of helplessness. Ultimately, it teaches that the cause of misery lies not with any external force or circumstance, but with ourselves. Buddhism looks nowhere beyond the sufferer for both the cause and the solution to suffering.

According to Shakyamuni Buddha: “If a person commits an act of good or evil, he him-self becomes the heir to that action. This is because that action actually never disappears.”

Can Buddhists escape from their karma? The doctrine of karma teaches that every action (kamma) has an effect (vipaka). However this effect is not always equal to its cause. For example, if a person steals something this act will have a negative effect. If however after the theft the person feels remorse, returns the stolen article, and sincerely resolves to try to be more careful in the future, the negative effect of the theft may be mitigated. There would still be an effect although not as strong. But even if the thief does not mitigate the wrong which has been done with some good, he or she will be free from the deed after its effect comes to fruition. So according to Buddhism we can be free from our kamma while according to Christianity our sins will only be forgiven during an extremely limited period of time.

There are other ways in which the doctrine of kamma is better than the Christian ideas of forgiveness and punishment. In Buddhism while one may have to endure the negative effects of the evil one has done (which is only fair) this means that one will experience the positive effects of the good one has done as well. This is not so in Christianity. For example, a non-Christian may be honest, merciful, generous and kind yet despite this at death this person will go to hell and not receive any reward for the good he or she has done. Furthermore, according to the doctrine of kamma the effects we experience, all things being equal, are in direct proportion to their cause. Again this is not so in Christianity - even if a person is exceptionally evil during this life, eternal hell is an utterly disproportionate punishment. How much more is this so if the person is virtuous but non-Christian? Indeed the eternity of hell, and the idea that all non-Christians are condemned to it, are teachings which cast very serious doubts on the concept of a just and loving God.

Mahasattva, I have an EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT time believing anything that you have written because it egregiously CONTRADICTS the holy Bible--God's Word.

Can you provide chapter and verse for your statements? I can show you chapter and verse for EVERYTHING that I write.

🙂

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mahasattva, I have an EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT time believing anything that you have written because it egregiously CONTRADICTS the holy Bible--God's Word.

Can you provide chapter and verse for your statements? I can show you chapter and verse for EVERYTHING that I write.

🙂

I agree.

Originally posted by debbiejo
A holding place???? LOL....Don't think that is taught.....Jesus never taught that.....And as I have said the word hell/sheol..etc. only means death, nothing more...Gehenna was an actual place where garbage and the dead were burned, and that fire was always going...(worms never dies??)...garbage dump!!

1.. Gehenna was a well-known locality near Jerusalem, and ought no more to be translated Hell, than should Sodom or Gomorrah. See Josh. 15: 8; II Kings 17: 10; II Chron. 28: 3; Jer. 7: 31, 32; 19: 2.

2.. Gehenna is never employed in the Old Testament to mean anything else than the place with which every Jew was familiar.

The first Christian writer who calls Hell Gehenna is Justin Martyr who wrote about A. D. 150.

Neither Christ nor his apostles ever named it to Gentiles, but only to Jews which proves it a locality only known to Jews, whereas, if it were a place of punishment after death for sinners, it would have been preached to Gentiles as well as Jews. Only Jesus and James ever named it. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jude ever employ it. Would they not have warned sinners concerning it, if there were a Gehenna of torment after death? Gehenna is never said to be of endless duration nor spoken of as destined to last forever, so that even admitting the popular ideas of its existence after death it gives no support to the idea of endless torment.. Clement, a Universalist, used Gehenna to describe his ideas of punishment. He was one of the earliest of the Christian Fathers. The word did not then denote endless punishment.

Actual photos of hell.

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellPhotos/index.htm

And again, why didn't Moses mention it when he recieved those 10 commandments??........He NEVER NEVER EVER...NEVER NEVER EVER did......Not once, not twice......NEVER!......Never even hinted at it!! ...ever ever ever........never......

why?? 🙄

...For You (God the Father) will not leave my (Jesus) soul in Hades (Hell),...

...he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His (Jesus'😉 soul was not left in Hades (Hell)...

Jesus soul was not left in Hades (Hell) because God the Father raised Him (Jesus) from the dead. Hell is the place of the dead who die in their sins. Jesus died for the world's sin and thus was consigned to Hades (Hell) in our place (i.e. for us). He suffered the consequence of our sins for us so that we would not have to. I am not going to Hell because I have put my faith in Jesus; I asked Jesus to save me from my sins. Now everything that Jesus did for me is credited to me as it were. It is like someone being put on death row and executed for your crimes so that you don't have to die. Well that's what Jesus did for the world. Jesus suffered our sin penalty so that we could be set free from it. But the simple condition that God the Father requires is that we admit to Him that we are sinners and then personally ask Jesus Christ to be our Savior. It is so simple all it requires is child-like faith to do..
🙂

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mahasattva, I have an EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT time believing anything that you have written because it egregiously CONTRADICTS the holy Bible--God's Word.

Can you provide chapter and verse for your statements? I can show you chapter and verse for EVERYTHING that I write.

🙂

The bible is not all truth.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible is not all truth.

Yes it is. You are not the first person to say that. Millions among millions of people have tried to prove that the Bible is false and guess what; none of them succeeded because the Bible is 100% true from Gensis to Revelation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mahasattva, I have an EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT time believing anything that you have written because it egregiously CONTRADICTS the holy Bible--God's Word.

😆

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Originally posted by Alliance
😆

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Mind backing up your word?

I've backed it up for quite a while here thank you.

1. Chirstians do not have a monopoly on religion.

2. JIA spends more time spamming than posting because everyone already attacks what he says.

3. There are many different versions of the bible, who says that his is right, let alone Christianity.

4. JIA posts and endless cycle of self-supporting statements that tumble down as soon as you even look at them.

Over Three Hundred Proofs of God’s Existence

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, aka PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
(1) If reason exists then God exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
(2) I say the universe must have a cause.
(3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) I define God to be X.
(2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
(2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) God is either necessary or unnecessary.
(2) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
(2) Only God could have made them so complex.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, aka TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
(2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

MORAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Person X, a well-known Atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

MORAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, child-molesting, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
(2) That all changed once I became religious.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, aka ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM FEAR
(1) If there is no God then we're all going to die.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE
(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]
(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTELLIGENCE
(1) Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid Atheists — it's too complicated for you to understand. God exists whether you like it or not.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE
(1) Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys — you're obviously very well read. But I read the Bible, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist. I feel him in my heart, and you can feel him too, if you'll just ask him into your life. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth." John 3:16.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF
(1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.
(2) I believe in God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION
(1) See this bonfire?
(2) Therefore, God exists.

PARENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) My mommy and daddy told me that God exists.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NUMBERS
(1) Millions and millions of people believe in God.
(2) They can't all be wrong, can they?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ABSURDITY
(1) Maranathra!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM ECONOMY
(1) God exists, you bastards!
(2) Therefore, God exists.