Battle #6 - The Redux

There have been some changes. Make sure you read through the rules to understand them.

1. Prep = 30 seconds, in a neutral environment apart from the battlefield.

2. Anything that is within the tourney rules is acceptable for your prep time, but keep in mind the time restrainst.

3. If you don't know the rules, read them! The first person to make 7 battle-related posts on Day 1, then complain to me will be flogged....or at least get a PM from me with a " 😐 " smilie and a link to the rules. They've been established for weeks. And that thread has been pinned for the past week. There's no excuse for not knowing them.

4. Observers are asked to NOT post in this thread unless it is a question directly related to the battle.

5. Keep anything extraneous in the discussion thread. Please help me keep this battle as efficient as possible.

6. Judges: wait a while to vote. And post your vote, possibly with a (brief) explanation. Don't vote in the poll Observers: Feel free to vote in the poll, but I'd encourage you to wait as well.

7. Help me out with all of this. If something needs edited out, let me know...I can't catch everything.

....

***New Rules***
8. Observers/judges are allowed to ask clarifying questions. Anything that could be considered a for-or-against argument should be kept to themselves however. They can use whatever opinions you want to decide, but they opinions should remain to themselves. Leave the debating to the participants.

9. Non-official posts should NOT happen. If you have to answer a clarifying question from a judge or observer, briefly deal with it in 1 of your 9 posts. Thank you.

......

Blair Wind / Newjak

vs.

Leonidas / TheKahn

Newjak/Blair Wind
G.L. Kyle Rayner (BW)
Shaman (Team)
Juggernaut (Newjak)

Leo/Kahn
Silver Surfer (Team)
G.L. Hal Jordan (Kahn)
...once again, I don't have the last bio...my apologies.

Judges: My memory may be a touch foggy, but I think it's Ill, Xmarksthespot, Val, and outtard.

Battle Location: Same as before. A 3-Dimensional mirror maze the size of Africa and with the depth of the moon. Combatants, if they wish, can use the element of surprise and/or confusion to gain the advantage, as the mirrors project dozens of images in any given spot. Or not....either way.

...opening strategies in a minute...

Blair/Newjak's opening strategy:

............

Blair Wind wrote on Jul 30th, 2006 10:33 AM:
Prep:
30 seconds to play with? Digi told me that its not just shields anymore so prep can be whatever I want.
In the 30 seconds that I have GL makes Juggs grow into a 8 story building:
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/554/juggsgianthl0.jpg
and programs his ring to make 9 more rings all like these:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/dfh.jpg
That should take 15 seconds at most

Shaman and GL then slip into Juggs helmet and then Juggs puts up his forcefield which does not allow anything to get through it (like Thors speed of light flying hammer 😱 ) and stay there riding the giant. Shaman makes us purely invisible and we should be ready to rumble.

Battle Begins:
We are invisible from you and once inside Cain's helmet they are safe from telepathy and safe from ANY of your attacks. Giving them plenty of time to perform some other things.

First of all the minute you get to close say a bit longer than a football field you guys get to meet our first surprise.
Juggernaut's momentum stealing shield as demonstrated on Thor(Who can throw his hammer at the Speed of Light):
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3340/jj3lj6.gif
So anybody you send in will be very much slower making a lot easier to get hit by or grabbed by Cain especially when he pulls out this move which by the way those blobs are now the size of Astroids have fun:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8858/firebx7.jpg

Also last time you said that Cain wasnt able to use kinetic steal? This is what we had written up in response: his shield which in those scans you failed to mention that Cain was depowered before those hits and what you saw was Cain's power returning to him. Now as stated in Cain's bio he has to make a conscious effort to put it up and as shown before many times so it wasn't even up. No matter what you wanna say the scan in his first fight with Thor says it all. It is ALREADY effecting your hammer's MOMENTUM slowing it down. It he says it a at least ten feet away probably more but I'll take the conservative estimate on it. The fact is as well Thor has been stated to throw his hammer at the speed of light so since Cain was able to speak a full paragraph before it touched speaks to just how much Momnetum it lost.So say it however you want your going much slower inside the Shield. (especially since its bigger than a football field)

Thats two surprises before you know what even hit you and the porportional sizes of his attacks would make the attacks that much more powerful. Such as these two different punches, *now just think what a giant version would do*
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/432/secretwarsii0072451rnlj1.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/6313/punch1ot9.jpg

Plus the man with the greatest durability on your team has been taken out by Ironman. Juggernauts strength>>>>>Ironmans:
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radno17zy.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radno22nl.jpg
Physical strength is NOT Surfers strong point 😬
No forcefield on your teams side can handle an 8-10 or more story Juggs punching through it since *gasp* NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!!

Shaman for his part has been magically messing with your minds:
Clouding Dust: Pulled from the pouch this is used to dull the opponent's mind.
Daylight Enchantment: A stone pulled from pouch that emits a calming light that can even soothe the Hulk. EVEN THE HULK!
All this leads to you basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman then we just get rid of you however we want.
Plus he can then hold you all in a structure of pure order:
battle against Carcass, a disciple of Khaos continues. If the team fails all of reality will be destroyed, but thankfully Alpha Flight kicks all kinds of ass.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-16.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-17.jpg
Seeing as no one on your team has pure Chaos Im not sure how your getting out of that one, plus by destroyin it he killed himself 😬

GL for his part can do something like this to the other opponents while they are stuck and losing all their speed:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/PhotoMaster_01/cvbg.jpg
Obviously he would do it in a focused column at the opposing team.
or he can do this to your now stopped and dulled team:
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p368nd.jpg
and if by some chance you manage to shoot off some attack (not that it would hurt us since youd have to actually hurt Juggs) GL could create a reflective shield on any attack you pull. Anything you shoot my way would just hit you: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5420/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg31om0.jpg
or like this: http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/9026/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg22am7.jpg
And well I thought this was cool: http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danielkyleyy6.jpg (thank you Avolon)

Silver Surfer
Taken out by magical force blobs the size of astriods, or Juggernauts physical force. *while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that he would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman*

Hal Jordan
Taken out by the guy who has surpassed him, multiple constructs like this:http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcu2000secretfiles1p368nd.jpg *while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that he would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman*

Maxima
Shaman focuses on her individually and lets the surrounding ground continously attack her. Her teke wouldnt help as Leo has already shown himself in his last match. *while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that she would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman*

Brief Coverage
while stuck in Juggs shield, dulled by mind magic and passified so much more that they would actually welcome the attacks, basically becoming and having the mentality of labtomized 2 year olds with the movement capabilities of a 90 year old fat woman we take out your team effectively from the safety of the pure essence of durability.

Leo/Kahn's opening strategy:

..........

Opening Strategy

Now that each team will only get 30 seconds of prep we will use our time very efficiently.

First, our team will share certain memories among themselves:
The SS will copy/absorb all of Hal's memories/experience/training as a GL as well as the aspect of his personality that grants him such a strong will. SS could easily absorb and understand all of this information:
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sstpty7.jpg

All of this is very easily and very quickly (a few seconds tops) accomplished by the SS as all he has to do is make physical contact. After copying/absorbing Hal's memories, he will give a copy of them to Max using her own telepathy to speed up the process even more.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_134p15.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_128_11.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_vol3_127-03.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_vol3_127-04.jpg

As a telepath of the highest order, Max should have no trouble absorbing and understanding the vast bulk of the information sent to her.

Next, Max will share with Hal all of the memories/experience/training she has relating to using and controlling Superman-level strength and speed.

Memories exchanged, Hal pre-programs his ring to do several things a pico-second into the fight:

*Generate 11 copies of itself with 9 attaching themselves permanently to Hal's other fingers and the other 2 attaching themselves permanently to Max and SS. Creating copies of rings is nothing new for Hal:
http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlantern031117jr.jpg

http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternthenewcorps02119rv.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternthenewcorps01120yf.jpg
**note in the last scan Kyle created copies using HAL’s RING

Lastly in prep, SS will erect his most powerful force field around our entire team. It will block all EM energy, sound energy, or ring energy (which he will be very familiar with thank to Hal's memories) and it will also be opaque so the other team cannot see what we are doing. In effect, the shield will block all attempts at sensory searches, probes or scans.

Recap
While this may seem like a great deal to do in only 30 seconds, one must keep in mind that each of our characters only have one or two tasks to accomplish and the transfer of telepathic information is almost instantaneous.

---------------------------

Battle Plan

Once the battle starts our team will very quickly begin to carry out a few actions behind our shield:

(1) in the first pico-second of the fight both the SS and Max are fully trained GLs which means that they can both bolster the SS's original shield and monitor the other team with a combination of power ring scans, telepathy, and cosmic awareness, looking specifically for illusions, holograms or disguises.

(2) Hal converts his DNA into that of a Kryptonian (I should point out that he would already have multiple rings at this point as well) something he can easily do. Hal has scanned and manipulated Superman's body several times before.

Here he turns Superman (and other JLA members) into pure energy and later changes them back:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/JLA042_20.jpg

Here he uses his ring to bring Superman's (and other's) body back together after Dr. Light created a machine to separate them:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-28.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-29.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-30.jpg

And here he scans Superman's body discovering that he is a Kryptonian and his origin before Superman even knew.
http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanmanofsteelannual04year.jpg

Besides, making a slight change to his DNA isn't that hard for Hal as he has turned his entire body into a robot before: 😎

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7848ee1e.jpg

(3) SS and Hal create massive amounts of yellow solar energy to "sundip" Hal. Hal then orders his rings to divert/block any red sunlight or kyrptonite radiation that he might come into contact with.

( 4 ) last thing our team does behind our shield is use their rings to disguise themselves. The SS makes himself appear to be Max, Max makes herself appear to be Hal, and Hal makes himself appear to be the SS all done behind our senses-blocking shields. Again this easily accomplished by our team:
Hal as Clark Kent:
http://img437.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superman367076qw.jpg
And keep in mind that the SS will be adding in his own illusionary powers in these disguises.

--------

Rings in place, disguises set, just before they leave the confines of the shield, they create personal shields and have the team shield erupt in a ‘near’-nova flash of light and emit a massive and intense ultrasonic wave directed a the other team to shatter their concentration and equilibrium. Being only human, Shaman (if he has not specifically blocked out sensory input) may well be KO’d by such an assault. Nimrod has shown that juggernaut is also susceptible to such an attack and sonar has been successful with ultrasonics in the past against both hal AND kyle. Obviously our own rings and shields protect us from the effects of these attacks as we have specifically acounted for them. Light and sound created, in the confusion, we teleport directly to our opponent.

Here we see how sonic attacks can not only shatter Kyle's constructs/shields but also cause him severe physical pain unless he specifically shields himself from it.
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternv317708ocdhorus1ji.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternv317710ocdhorus6zv.jpg

Also sonic attacks can harm even beings with high end durability such as Wonder Man.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-08.jpg
Imagine what the attack will do to the human bodies of Kyle and Shaman (and to some extent the Juggernaut as well thanks to his sonic weakness).

The GL SS (who looks like Max) will port to Juggs encasing him in a skin tight block of pure adamantium and teleport that block a good distance away (will be more specific here once the battle field is known). The GL SS will enjoy a near incalculable speed advantage here and will be able to effectively take Juggs out of the fight in an instant.

GL Max (who appears to be Hal) will port to Shaman and proceed to neutralize him. Again our character has a vast speed, strength, and durability advantage. Any shields she encounters can either be ported past or (if they are GL constructs) destroyed/weakened with our ultra sonic attacks:
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sonarvg8.jpg

She will also use her telepathic abilities to mind rape Shaman and take away all of his magic abilities by destroying his confidence, reminding him of past failures with his daughter:
http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=headlokck7.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=noconfidenceco6.jpg

She could also use her ring to separate Shaman from his pouch, teleport it away or simply create a bubble around it if it is not protected in a special way:
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shamanspoorsenseske5.jpg
This scan also shows that Shaman CAN be fooled by simple disguises. The Guardian in that scan was actually a robot in disguise. Once the pouch is neutralized he can easily be dispached by GL Max in a number of ways.

Hal (who looks like the SS) will take on Kyle. Now he could try and slug it out with Kyle given his superior physical prowess and multiple rings, but he has a far easier way to neutralize Kyle. Once he teleports to him, Hal will simply trap Kyle in a Constrictor that a Green Lantern cannot escape from alone:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/df81594b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/1e1b09e4.jpg

Of course he wouldn't have to hold Kyle for long as the GL SS will be joining him very quickly after he dispatches Juggy. Kyle might have been able to put up a fight against one of these guys, but against a sundipped Kryptonian Hal and a GL SS he doesn't stand a chance.

*JUDGES*: please bear in mind – if they cannot find a convincing way to see through our disguises then they will essentially be attacking the wrong opponent and the defenses and attacks they employ would likely NOT be the appropriate ones.

no votes in yet?.... weird..... 😐

Well, it seems that an extra week wasn't enough for BW and Newjack to work all the mistakes out of their plan and by all accounts the number of errors seem to have increased. 🙂

To begin with, this absurd notion of increasing Juggernaut to the size of a 8 story building. Not only would this offer them any tactical advantage whatsoever, but they failed to prove that their team can actually do it. Growing in size in not a part of Juggy's standard power set as we all know and as can be seen in the bio they provided. Take note how they failed to explain how Juggernaut, in this single instance, was able to increase his size and they didn't even attempt to prove that Kyle can recreate those circumstances. They merely tossed out a scan of a giant Juggernaut and hoped no one would ask any questions. 🙁

What they failed to mention: that scan was TRION JUGGERNAUT! He was actually possessd by evil aspects of the Trion who are insanely powerful in their own realms -- beyond skyfather level and in their own realm beyond Cyttorak. That is why they could override Cyttorak's shield. More importantly, this was NOT a case of simple matter manipulation and the scan in no way supports the idea that it is possible to matter manipulate Juggs! -- unless Kyle can create godlike spirits and a realm in which their powers are magnified and who are capable of possessing Juggs and increasing Jugg's power exponentially..... now they will say -- 'look at the scan -- Juggs can be made to be that big so kyle can do it!' UNIQUE AND SINGULAR SITUATION THAT KYLE COULD NOT DUPLICATE. BW and Newjack's attempt to sneak in that feat which they clearly knew was not applicable is just poor form. The end result is that Juggernaut will stay his normal size and thanks to his lack of flight, (which they failed to grant him) he is a non-factor in this fight.

Next up (and this one is enough to make you bang you head against a brick wall), in an attempt to prove Kyle's ring can make copies of itself they use a scan where he just tells Jade how he made adjustments to his ring back when he was ION 😑. What the hell is that? It doesn't show him making copies or even saying he could. They do know that people will actually look at the scans they post and not just take their word for it, don't they? 🙄

Following that in the line of poorly thought out ideas, is their "hide our entire team behind a giant Juggy's force field and helmet." Now we have already explained how the whole "giant Juggy" tactic isn't going to work, but there is more incompetence to point out here. First they seem not to realize that because their entire team behind Jugg's shield for the whole fight . . . how can they attack us!? They have never shown that anyone, including Juggernaut, can attack an opponent when his shield is up. Are we supposed to just ASSUME the shield blocks all attacks but let's any attack get OUT?? Why would we, or anyone, assume that? So any attack Kyle or Shaman use would be blocked by the same shield that is hiding them!!

Then there is the fact they actually expect Juggs to be able to hit anyone on our team. Not only is he grounded by he lacks anywhere near the speed to land a single blow. Force globes?? Cripes, gl and ss have flown at lightspeed through asteroid fields, but they can't dodge these weird globes?? Hell, juggs has a hard enough time with Spiderman for pete's sake. And keep in mind that the SS and Max were ACTIVELY scanning their team since the fight started (see prep) and would be able to see their team turn invisible. And it will take far more than simple invisibility to hide their team from scans from GL rings and Cosmic Awareness.

The Surfer alone could detect them. He can listen to the sound of a meteorite a thousand lightyears away
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Incredible_Hulk_415-02.jpg
Or listen the whisper of a butterfly's wing a galaxy away
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP-069-27.jpg
And then there is his Spectroscopic Vision...
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_037-02.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_037-03.jpg
Or he can just sense their life forces
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP-069-32.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/X-men_Unlimited_13-23.jpg

Next is the tripe about Juggernaut's shield being able to steal the momentum from our characters. The only feat in his decades long history they could find to even remotely suggest such a thing is possible is one where Juggernaut's magically generated shield was able to stop a magically empowered weapon. Nothing more. They can't provide one scan where the shields drain the kinetic energy from an actual opponent because, to be honest, he doesn't have that power. Please, are we morons to believe this? so anyone who runs, walks or flies close to juggs just . . . stops?? 😑
Seriously, anyone with even moderate comicbook knowledge will see that such a claim is the worst kind of nonsense . . . i beg them to show, just one time, a scan showing that a flying, walking or running opponent, an actual real PERSON, had their momentum 'stolen' by juggs. PLEASE, ONE SCAN!! I'M BEGGING YOU!!

And obviously SS's durability (not that Juggernaut could ever land a blow on him), is beyond reproach. They show one low feat (and not even an instance where ss is beaten PHYSICALLY!! Iron Man stole some of SS's energy and attacked him with it, that's how he scored a k.o. that ALSO knocked out Iron Man!) and think what -- that it eliminates all the other ones?? C'mon guys I thought you were better than that . . . we could show DOZENS of scans of high end durability feats for SS -- flyig through black holes, stars, laughing at planetfalls, surving planetary destruction, etc . . . -- but i trust our judges KNOW how ridiculously durable the Surfer is . . .

Now as for any of Shaman's spells, I look to Blair Wind's own words:
"Now I'll bet the GL rings can handle the magic, but Surfer has had a small flaw when it comes to high end magic"
😱

Every member of our team has a GL ring so according to BW Shaman can't do a thing to any of them 🙂 Thanks! 👆
Not that Shaman, like Juggernaut, has anywhere near the speed necessary to hit any member of our team anyway. And just to pour some salt into the wound, Shaman actually never used this strange clouding dust against Headlok. He was GOING to use it but he never did! (see prep scan) Frankly, we have NO IDEA what the dust might have done to Headlok. They are using an attack that has never been used in a book to the best of my knowledge, and trying to tell everyone what it MIGHT have been able to do ...

They really seem to have a tendency to see an inch and try to STEAL 1000 miles... making a lot of unsupported inferences. Not great strategy in a debate, imo. ❌

And their one mobile character? He and his constructs are stuck behind Juggy's shield making him usless as well! doh

Now for something compeletly different...

Now we would like to present the judges with why our team can easily defeat the other team even if some of their wild and unsuported claims are believed. This is actually quite easy for us as the other team has for some reason severly limited their mobility by tying it to the Juggernaut's shield. even if by some MIRACLE the momentum thing is accepted by, say, 1/1000 readers who know juggs. WHAT MAKES THEM THINK WE NEED TO BE WITHIN A FOOTBALL FIELD TO ATTACK THEM?? Anything we do, we can do from a distance and we can do it REALLY fast. And bear in mind: Shaman, Kyle, and Juggy will all be in debilitating pain thanks to our sonic/light attack. There is no reason to suppose the shield would save Kyle or Shaman in particular, from sensory attacks. So with that, from a safe distance, we could:

*have SS transmute the air the inside of Juggy's shield into hydrochloric acid killing the unshielded Shaman instantly.

*following that, we have SS encase juggs in a massive, skin/shield-tight adamantium sphere after which Hal would reinforce the whole structure with a Constrictor. as can be seen in the scan, the constrictor prevents teleporting (or Hal would have ported out) and the admantium would keep juggs immobile for YEARS! They can't port out, Huggs can't walk out for years. We win -- easily! Oh, and if you think the size of juggs is an issue, we could just as easily increase our OWN sizes THEN proceed with our distance attacks . . .

Once again their plan is a shambles. If they stay with it, they are trapped in adamantium and an inescapeable constrictor. If they decide to change everything, our initial plan deals with them. Anyway you look, they are once again screwed . . .

All I can do is laugh at your post Khan.

I just want to point out that basically all you did was try and say all of our scans are worthless but I thought that was the point of scans was to show what we are trying to say is true.

The giant Juggs scan was to show he can grow in size by outside forces. Try and manipulate it all you want you can't deny that in the end Cain was by far larger than what he once was so he can grow in size.

Secondly you complain about his shield which in his decades of powers uses it rarely in battles so a one time use of it to slow the momentum of it should tell that it can. Now your trying to tell me that if Juggs shield could slow down Mjoilner a thrown object traveling through the air that it won't be able to to do the same thing simply because someone is flying seems to me your reaching for straws. Let me ask you something Khan since when is force from a object traveling at the speed of light different from the speed of a human its simple science Khan it isn't.

So your slow and the point of the Globs is they are huge in size for all your guys speed your people aren't exactly unhittable by slow people Iron Man has hit Surfer so has Rhino Hal can be hit as well so to say hundreds of gigantic Blobs aren't going to slow you down or be able to hit you fast is just being ludacrious. Which also neutralizes your illusions as Cain doesn't even need to know where you are to have to hit you thats the greatness of an area effect attack.

Next your plans on trying to take Shaman out is useless this isn't Magneto, shaman's sheilds can be skin tight and so can Kyle. As for the adamantium cocoon Kyle can just as easily stop it from happening and as for the fact that you said we can't teleport out well your basing it on the idea that Hal never tried to teleport out not that he couldn't he never says he couldn't he simply doesn't try a poor man's effort there Khan so a couple of wash out attacks down.

Secondly let me ask you something you claim that since Shaman never used his Clouding Dust that it wouldn't work since when has Shaman ever attempted to use something that wouldn't work that is like saying SS was about to blast something but since he didn't then obviously he can't blast stuff faulty logic.

As for Nimrod well I'll let Marvel itslef speak on it:
http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi.../juggernaut.htm
For those who don't want to read through the page here it is:
[ quote ]Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, he would have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons. [ / quote ]
It speaks for itself it wasn't simple sonics it was actually a very specfic attack used to attack the nervous system while SS and Hal may be able to reproduce it they would not now how to recreate it they wouldn't know about it to do it since they don't know what was used or the event in question. Secondly Marvel even corrects the comic itself by saying that if his sheild was up it wouldn't work well guess what it is up. So guess what another poor attmept trying to use bad writing that was even shown by Marvel to be bad writing.
Still though I ask what would an attack on the nervous system do to someone who when depowered at the time can still walk without muscles:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5476/mystic1ls9.jpg

Now that basically everything you just said was blown out of the water let me tell you exactly what is going to happen here.

Basically you are gonna try and attack using what you think will beat us but after or before since you won't even have the time to do this you've got nothing that big attempt was worthless after that Shaman is going to mind rape you with magic turning you into Labotmized 2 year olds with the speed movements of a 90 old woman.

You have changed your appereance and that is somehow supposed to help? You wasted time doing nothing because we didnt specifically attack you, we stopped you ALL.

You have nothing show us otherwise your best attempt was trying to quote something BW said which by the way was false(it was for one specific attack, NOT a mind rape like we are suggesting). I'm calling you out on it you have nothing to protect against magic nothing at all I know you can't provide any scans of it so basicilly you have no defence against it except for trying to say something we said basically to be nice that is sad at every definition of the word.
I know what your thinking how is Shaman going to do this when he won't be able to see us well he doesn't need to see you to actually effect you with his spells as shown it isn't that he has to know where you are but that your there and since we already know who we're fighting that isn't a problem:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/...ight1220gy4.jpg

Secondly Juggs attacks are going to hit you his shield is going to effect you and once again you have nothing against it besides trying to play word games but hey nice try.

[ B ] Recap [ / B ]

Judges: all they did was try to play word games with our scans while trying to say all this tough stuff which doesn't even take into account everything we can do or Kyle could back. Its typical we're going to try and BS your stuff while trying to make big noasts that don't work.

Basically we have two advanatges they can not over come:

A) Magic they have no defence for it they have nothing to go against it and we have it in spades so their biggest weakness is one of our biggest strengths. Basically they have no way to deal with this and they know it

B) Durability basically we have the most durable guy in the tourny and two guys both of whom have very strong sheilds you aren't taking us down easily which sucks for you because we can.

Their two big advantges though we have already counters.
A) Speed
B)Illusion/constructs

Which is beaten by Jugg's Momnetum halting Shields and area wide attack that doesn't allow you to get close and doesn't need to actually know where your at.

Which is also beaten by Shaman because he Magic Mindrapes you so bad your drooling all over yourselves. And you can't hide from his spells has already shown.

Basically that was a waste of a post and we still beat you sorry and to tell you the truth with the exception of maybe one thing from Kyle we only need two people to beat guys that is sad.

All I can do is laugh at your post Khan.

hey, he’s a funny guy . . .

I just want to point out that basically all you did was try and say all of our scans are worthless

most of them were . . .

but I thought that was the point of scans was to show what we are trying to say is true.

yes . . .? 😕

The giant Juggs scan was to show he can grow in size by outside forces.

oh, I see, so it was your PREMISE that was wrong. You see, what were actually SUPPOSED to show is that it is possible for KYLE to matter manipulate juggs. I GUESS you may have showed that an omnipotent entity (at least equal to cyttorak) in its own realm, where the laws of the universe are different, could do it, BUT . . . that doesn’t help prove YOUR claim that KYLE can do it . . . marko’s mind wasn’t even present while he was possessed so it is not at all likely juggs himself knows how it happened! And yet, THIS is your proof that kyle can do it? Nice logic. By that reasoning, if juggs told kyle that LT destroyed universes, could kyle do that too?

Secondly you complain about his shield which in his decades of powers uses it rarely in battles so a one time use of it to slow the momentum of it should tell that it can. Now your trying to tell me that if Juggs shield could slow down Mjoilner a thrown object traveling through the air that it won't be able to to do the same thing simply because someone is flying seems to me your reaching for straws. Let me ask you something Khan since when is force from a object traveling at the speed of light different from the speed of a human its simple science Khan it isn't.

translation: I have no proof besides that single scan because in his 30 years history that power has never been shown before or since, and no one with any comic knowledge will buy that jugg’s can steal kinetic energy, but if I keep saying it over and over, maybe SOMEONE will believe me . . .

not anyone with a lick of knowledge about the character . . . ❌

gentlemen, you seem to think that one scan erases all the HUNDREDS of other showings that refute that scan. You need to do a LOT better then that. Hey, don’t blame us – YOU chose to use a brick in a herald tournament . . .

So your slow and the point of the Globs

why are we slow again? We can institute our attacks from literally MILES away!! Are you gonna . . . WALK to us?! Don’t you get it? We will never be NEAR your ridiculous shield!

they are huge in size for all your guys

why? We all grow to match sizes with juggs . . .

speed your people aren't exactly unhittable by slow people Iron Man has hit Surfer so has Rhino Hal can be hit as well so to say hundreds of gigantic Blobs aren't going to slow you down or be able to hit you fast is just being ludacrious.

er, ss was FIGHTING those guys . . . he’s NOT fighting your silly globes (another power that has never before or since been used . . .) I am confident in the fact that every judge and reader understands that those globes would never touch any of us if we didn’t want them to. and even if they did, so . . .? oh, and didn’t CYCLOPS dodge them in that scan . . .? yeah, he’s close to our speed . . .

Next your plans on trying to take Shaman out is useless this isn't Magneto, shaman's sheilds can be skin tight

are you saying there is no air in a skin-tight shield . . . 😕 because if there is, shaman is f’d . . . oh, and did you say shaman raised a skin-tight shield in prep . . .? it’s not like he feels the acid THEN has time to raise a shield . . .

As for the adamantium cocoon Kyle can just as easily stop it from happening and as for the fact that you said we can't teleport out well your basing it on the idea that Hal never tried to teleport out not that he couldn't he never says he couldn't he simply doesn't try a poor man's effort there Khan so a couple of wash out attacks down.

ohhh, so his ring scanned it, found no weaknesses, and the best gl ever just . . forgot to teleport out of it? 😕 thanks for clarifying . . . sigh . . .

translation: I . . . have no counter except to try and claim cis because if they are right, we are sooooooo screwed . . . guess what, bucko – you’re screwed. 😉

Secondly let me ask you something you claim that since Shaman never used his Clouding Dust that it wouldn't work since when has Shaman ever attempted to use something that wouldn't work that is like saying SS was about to blast something but since he didn't then obviously he can't blast stuff faulty logic.

um, except for the pesky little fact that . . . ss HAS blasted 1 or 2 things . . . and you ended that with ‘faulty logic’? sigh . . . it would be more like wolverine saying to magneto – I’m going to use my anti-EM force eyeblasts on you and kill you! Then, before he does it, mags ko’s him – like headlock took out shaman. You see? Shaman never used the dust, wolvie never used the anti-em eyebeams . . . there needs to be a parallel in a comparison for the comparison to be effective and reasonable . . . now it’s true shaman HAS the dust, and wolvie doesn’t have the beams, BUT they are the same in that we really don’t know what EITHER WOULD have done . . .

As for Nimrod well I'll let Marvel itslef speak on it:
http://www.marveldirectory.com/indi.../juggernaut.htm
For those who don't want to read through the page here it is:
[ quote ]Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, he would have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.

liar. And your link doesn’t work. Anyway, I checked for myself (knowing ALREADY what it really said.) Shall we compare? Here’s what I found:

“Nimrod, a robot from the future of an alternate Earth, successfully attacked the Juggernaut's mind and nervous system with advanced weaponry producing tight-beam high-frequency sound waves and a synapse dislocate that jammed his neural impulses. However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, perhaps he might have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.”

PERHAPS he might have proved invulnerable. Did you . . . forget that pesky little word . . .? it really DOES throw your whole point out the window and throw your credibility into the toilette . . . shame, shame, gentlemen . . .

It speaks for itself it wasn't simple sonics it was actually a very specfic attack used to attack the nervous system while SS and Hal may be able to reproduce it they would not now how to recreate it they wouldn't know about it to do it since they don't know what was used or the event in question. Secondly Marvel even corrects the comic itself by saying that if his sheild was up it wouldn't work well guess what it is up. So guess what another poor attmept trying to use bad writing that was even shown by Marvel to be bad writing.

my fave paragraph . . .

first, you reiterate your lie.
Second, and even better: you try and tell US that WE can’t reproduce something as simple as an ultrasonic attack! Meanwhile, YOU GUYS are going about . . . duplicating the feat of an omnipotent, MAGICAL being, performed in said omnipotent’s realm!! 😆
But you weren’t finished. Third, you DARE have the audacity to AGAIN cry pis!! You – YOU -- are saying that the sonic attack was PIS?? PUH-LEASE!! The same guy clinging like a drowning man to that single scan that supports your kinetic stealing theory is crying pis – again?! Sigh . . .

You’re . . . not looking very good . . . I recall bats and dc (no disrespect, gentlemen, you know you’re both cool in my book) tried screaming pis last match too . . . it’s the last effort of the desperate for a reason . . .

Still though I ask what would an attack on the nervous system do to someone who when depowered at the time can still walk without muscles

that is a great deal of PHYSICAL trauma. What’s that got to do with an attack on his central nervous system again . . .?

Now that basically everything you just said was blown out of the water let me tell you exactly what is going to happen here.

oohhhhhh . . . so, you . . . did NOT prove juggs could be matter manipulated (at least by anything less than a MAGICAL ruler of a universe . . .), you lied. you used an inaccurate metaphor, you failed to show that juggs IS invulnerable to sensory attacks, you cried pis/cis TWICE, you never DID counter how they escape the adamantium and the constrictor (discounting your cis claim, of course . . .) you failed to explain why we would be anywhere NEAR your ridiculous shield and also failed to show proof that it could stop a being he was fighting. Oh and why would a person be different from the hammer? Oh, I don’t know – maybe because he’s NEVER STOPPED ANYONE WITH IT!! Oh, and one other little thing you very conveniently glossed right over . . .

where is your proof that gl or shaman could even attack, trapped inside jugg’s helmet like they are?? juggs shields stop everything! How can they attack OUT of the shield? Did I miss your proof, you know the scan that says the shield stops things from getting in but conveniently allows them to exit? I noticed you left out of THIS opening the little bit about everyone tucking inside jugg’s shield. At least you learned SOMETHING from our free critique of your first post . . . but not enough, I see . . . you CANNOT simply make things up, assume, or infer. You must have precedent and proof. All of which your argument utterly lacks.

judges, do NOT let them off the hook on this one, PLEASE!! There is no reason whatsoever to assume the shield only stops attacks. ZERO! In fact it goes against reasoning. Juggs has no energy attacks (the globes are OF the shield) so why WOULD it let attacks out? They SCREWED themselves when they TRAPPED themselves in juggs helmet! and don’t forget – they never even showed ANYTHING to convince anyone that kyle COULD manipulate an all but invulnerable juggernaut!

Oh, you must have meant ASIDE from all that, you have blown all of our arguments out of the water . . . sigh . . .

Basically you are gonna try and attack using what you think will beat us but after or before since you won't even have the time to do this you've got nothing that big attempt was worthless after that Shaman is going to mind rape you with magic turning you into Labotmized 2 year olds with the speed movements of a 90 old woman.

the lobotomized 2 yr old crack is a fave of yours, huh? Nice of you to tell us how we will attack, as well. Thanks. Actually, what we WILL do is travel a long way away from you, encase you in adamantium to keep juggs from moving then use a constrictor to prevent you from teleporting and win this fight in about 3 seconds. Oh, and the air in shaman’s shield is transmuted to acid and he dies horribly. Your ridiculous, never-been-used-dust wouldn’t get through jugg’s shield, and even if you think it would, you are assuming (AGAIN, because AGAIN you have no proof . . .) that it would: (a) affect us through our own shields, (b) then affect the mind of one of the strongest telepaths in the dc universe, affect the ss who has withstood a direct mental assault from moondragon WITH the mind gem (the same attack put prof x in a coma!) and affect hal, the person with the strongest will in dc!! And (c) it would do all this from MILESaway! That bears repeating: this dust which has NEVER BEEN USED, would act THROUGH jugg’s shield, across MILES, through our own shields and impact some of the most powerful minds in 2 universes?

Yeah, that’s . . . not very convincing . . . ❌

You have nothing show us otherwise your best attempt was trying to quote something BW said which by the way was false(it was for one specific attack, NOT a mind rape like we are suggesting). I'm calling you out on it you have nothing to protect against magic nothing at all I know you can't provide any scans of it so basicilly you have no defence against it except for trying to say something we said basically to be nice that is sad at every definition of the word.

not that we NEED to prove anything because shaman’s magic is locked up behind jugg’s shield, useless, and, well . . . shaman is a puddle of acid. But . . . ss DOES have feats against magic. Once again, you see one scan (the stabbing one, I assume) and infer EVERYTHING from it. SS has SYNTHESIZED the ODINPOWER!! It was his power, combined with odin’s that saved bill and remade his hammer! Even odin wasn’t sure what ss was doing or how he did it. SS has stalemated loki. SS has actually overpowered mephisto – a feat even galactus couldn’t achieve! Dr strange himself has said ss is more powerful than he is. (scans of each ARE available, but this is really long already so they can be in the next post) Yeah, he hardly has ANY experience with magic and clearly is VERY vulnerable to its effects. That is what you’d call a MYTH folks, propagated by the forum. An inaccurate one, as so many forum myths are . . . hell, he’s even resisted a SOUL SUCK from adam’s mystical gem!! AND he’s broken free of the mystical gem’s world! Please. You are calling US out?? Dude, take care of your OWN house first. It appears to be falling down all around your ears . . .

Judges: all they did was try to play word games with our scans while trying to say all this tough stuff which doesn't even take into account everything we can do or Kyle could back. Its typical we're going to try and BS your stuff while trying to make big noasts that don't work.

Word play? Here’s a little game: let’s call it . . . “PROVE SOME OF YOUR ASSININE CLAIMS AND THEORIES AND STOP ASSUMING AND MAKING FAULTY INFERENCES AND STOP USING ATTACKS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN USED AND TELLING EVRYONE WHAT IT WOULD HAVE DONE AND STOP TRAPPING YOUR CHARACTERS INSIDE THE MOST INVULNERABLE CHARACTER OUT THERE AND TELLING EVERYONE THEY COULD ATTACK OUT OF HIS SHIELD WITHOUT EVER HAVING PROVEN IT!!”

how’s that for a title? 😄

Basically we have two advanatges they can not over come:

A) Magic they have no defence for it they have nothing to go against it and we have it in spades so their biggest weakness is one of our biggest strengths. Basically they have no way to deal with this and they know it

Wrong on so many levels. Shaman can’t attack us – great strategy – and even if he could, ss has faced and overcome magics FAR exceeding what shaman can do. Hal and max have their own defenses and mental powers and we are no where NEAR you . . .

B) Durability basically we have the most durable guy in the tourny and two guys both of whom have very strong sheilds you aren't taking us down easily which sucks for you because we can.

be careful how you describe that shield. We can’t get near it because it steals our speed, so . . . doesn’t that exceed the killability limit? Hmm, if you’re not careful that shield will be the NEXT thing you get banned . . . 😖hifty:

Which is beaten by Jugg's Momnetum halting Shields and area wide attack that doesn't allow you to get close and doesn't need to actually know where your at.

WE. ARE. NOT. NEAR. YOU. And your shield is ridiculous. We know it. Readers know it. Judges know it. But it IS irrelevant because near or far we win. Easily.

Which is also beaten by Shaman because he Magic Mindrapes you so bad your drooling all over yourselves. And you can't hide from his spells has already shown.

he has a small problem in that he can’t get past jugg’s shield . . . ss has loads of magic-related feats, you have no CLUE what the true effects of that spell would be, and of course bw’s own immortal words: "Now I'll bet the GL rings can handle the magic, but Surfer has had a small flaw when it comes to high end magic" . . . oops. 😬

Basically that was a waste of a post and we still beat you sorry and to tell you the truth with the exception of maybe one thing from Kyle we only need two people to beat guys that is sad.

😆 well, when you lie, and assume things and believe you don’t need to prove anything, it’s easy to see just how you’d come to such a ludicrous conclusion. However, anyone with an ounce of sense can see what is REALLY happening in this little tete-a-tete . . . 😉

ps-judges: we are monitoring them VERY closely from a distance. if the shield is dropped for even a moment, we will know and attack accordingly . . .

About Giant Juggs yes Cain's mind was present how do you think they stopped Juggernaut they got Cain to retake control secondly if he wasn't able to be Matter Maniped then how would he grow in size.

Next I'll ask you about all these so called hundreds of instances of Cain using his sheild wait there isn't sorry buddy but that is a big old lie. He barely has evered used that sheild and the fact still remains he did use it to stop the Hammers momentum even though he did it once I do have a scan of him doing it that is all you need Leo. Unless you want me to start to question all of these things you've been doing where you you only have one instance on it and in fact have never been able to do some of these things. For instance giving Hal Superman like powers or Silver Surfer a ring I mean how many times has Hal Duplicated a ring????

Once again with the Globs a power he has used once but I still have a scan of him doing so he was able to do it once he can surely do it again if he wanted right I mean at least I have a scan for it all these things your doing seem to be doing things you think your characters can do like SS making Adamantium do you have a scan of him doing it. For all the claims you say we are making your team seems to be the one that is taking the liberty of doing a ton of things without scans or loosely putting them together seems to me if Judges should be questioning anyones attacks here they should be questioning yours not ours Leo.

Now the Globs have grown great in size I wonder if Cyclops could dodge something that was more than 8 times his size same thing for SS.

About growing in size you guys seem to think you guys could pull it off easily enough how many things are you going to do in the first few minutes of the battle? Geeze youd think you had like a million years of prep or something Anyway making yourselves bigger doesn't help you all that means is your bigger and thus easier to get hit by Juggs.

About Nimrod it wasn't Ultra sonics the site itself tells you it was a high frequency attack from the future desgined to specificy attack the nervous system the fact is SS won't know the frequency to use since he doesn't know the event in question to scan it you have nothing.

Also on the fact that Marvel itself went into his bio to correct the mistake should tell you that they thought is such bad writing they were willing to make a reference to it. Now we all know how much bad writing takes place over the years for Marvel to go in and correct speaks alot of just how bad they thought it was.

Now as for me calling out PIS and CIS well yes I am because honestly you think people would take someone trying to use Spiderman vs Firelord if they were debating for Spiderman no.

Basically what was said about Hal not being able to teleport out of that thing that since he didn't try it then he obviously can't do it even though he never mentions not being able to teleport out of it. That is PIS Leo face it unless it specificly says he wasn't able to teleport out of it then I guess we can't assume.

Now back to Juggs shield and your double standard you seem to think that we can't attack out of it but that you can attack us in it seems like your trying to reach for straws there either nothing comes in or out you can't have it both ways Leo. Besides we're using it as a speed stealer shield so its not like you can't touch us but the same goes for us we can as well.

Now as for you turning the inside of the helmet to acid well as stated before Kyle simply turns it back to air simple as that as Shman erects a skin tight forcefield. Or something even better which BW will touch on

I'm also calling into question you being to do this miles away while SS could possibly do it I want you to show me this. Not like Shaman won't be able to take your whole team out as I've already shown he can do it for miles and was shown that it can you on the other hand simply are saying it not real good evidence right Leo.

This one I actually decided to post Leo because it is one of the few things in your post that was worth actually quoting

the lobotomized 2 yr old crack is a fave of yours, huh? Nice of you to tell us how we will attack, as well. Thanks. Actually, what we WILL do is travel a long way away from you, encase you in adamantium to keep juggs from moving then use a constrictor to prevent you from teleporting and win this fight in about 3 seconds. Oh, and the air in shaman’s shield is transmuted to acid and he dies horribly. Your ridiculous, never-been-used-dust wouldn’t get through jugg’s shield, and even if you think it would, you are assuming (AGAIN, because AGAIN you have no proof . . .) that it would: (a) affect us through our own shields, (b) then affect the mind of one of the strongest telepaths in the dc universe, affect the ss who has withstood a direct mental assault from moondragon WITH the mind gem (the same attack put prof x in a coma!) and affect hal, the person with the strongest will in dc!! And (c) it would do all this from MILESaway! That bears repeating: this dust which has NEVER BEEN USED, would act THROUGH jugg’s shield, across MILES, through our own shields and impact some of the most powerful minds in 2 universes?

Yeah, that’s . . . not very convincing

This was the only other one worth qouting

be careful how you describe that shield. We can’t get near it because it steals our speed, so . . . doesn’t that exceed the killability limit? Hmm, if you’re not careful that shield will be the NEXT thing you get banned . . .

Now as for the rest basically more just tough talk and trying to use something we said on completely different attacks. that is basically all you've given for your defence against magic alot of nothing is what. All this tough talk and Words Games but still no proof as to the fact you have anything to counter it.

For the Judges
They keep talking about our outragious claims and how we have shown nothing to back it up but we have shown a lot more concrete proof then they have. They want to talk about bogus claims and us not being able to do what we say well I think the fact is we have shown that we have done exactly what we claim.

SO they keep spouting off about all this stuff not being true when the truth is they are ones making alot of unsupportive claims. They are the ones with outragious claims with little to no evidence as to how they are going to beat us.

Basically they have no defence for our Attacks on their mind they know it so they are trying to use the words outragious and unsupported on us as much as possible to take attention on that fact well I'm not letting that happen.

Or better yet here is what Leo/Khan are saying:
"Damn he did it in a scan, but it still isnt so!!!"

Seriously, common. TELL us why you WOULDNT be near us? How in the freakin HELL would you know you CANT come near us. PFFFFFFFT leo just because you know the strategy doesnt mean the characters do themselves Just because you dont LIKE the shield doesnt mean its not there. Keep your head in the sand if you want ostrich boy

Thank you have a good day

Very nice battle so far, gentlemen. 🙂

Wow...

Originally posted by batdude123
Very nice battle so far, gentlemen. 🙂

Originally posted by Validus
I haven't read a bit but I'll take your word for it.

😆

Opened the poll

Let me begin by expressing my disappointment in our opponents. While I expected a challenging debate, altering the text from a website in a vain attempt to find "proof" of a claim is just pathetic and throws their creditability in the toilet, forcing the judges to wonder just how many other lies they may have told.

In case any one missed it, here is the quote in question:

Newjak quoted this: "However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, he would have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons."

The website really said: "However, had the Juggernaut used his force field, perhaps he might have proved invulnerable even to these futuristic weapons.”
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/j/juggernaut.htm

About the use of single scans: I know it is asking a lot but try and read what was said before spewing out pointless tripe. Leo said there are numerous scans showing Juggs fight where he fails to use his shield to "steal" speed. The difference between YOUR single scan, and our single scans, is that YOUR single scan is refuted hundreds of times over by ALL of Juggs other fights! Our constrictor scan was NEVER refuted. In fact Hal used it again to SUPPORT its inescapeability. You asked about Hal becoming kryptonian – true he never has, but . . . he DID become a robot! And he HAS manipulated his person and others numerous times. Having hal become a superman is a logical extension of his powers. At no other time has Juggs EVER demonstrated the power you are claiming his shield has.

About the globs: Globs my ass. You've only shown that these globs can destroy a tree and that is supposed to mean anything to our team? It would take high-yield nuclear explosions just to get the attention of our GL trio! Besides, every one of our characters have enough speed to run circles around Juggs and his little globs. More importantly: JUGGS IS ON THE GROUND! :laughing: I really hope you can do better than tree destroying attacks from a grounded Juggs . . .

Increase the size, power, and speed of your "globs" by 100 fold and then they might be an inconvenience to our team. As it stands now they are nothing. I mean are they now supposed to be able to blow up a tree 8 times the size of the tree in the scan . .. ?

About our plan and prep use: The true beauty of our plan was that we were constantly scanning you and watching what you were doing. That gave us an ability to realistically change things, depending on what you did. GL Surfer could easily use cosmic awareness to know what this ‘speed stealing shield’ could do. Meaning that our team will never get near it or could simply teleport past it.

At any size Juggs will not have any chance of hitting our team as we are orders of magnitude faster than he can ever hope to be and he can't fly! It’s like you guys thought we’d fly into this silly shield, get trapped like bugs in a web then be sitting ducks for Juggs to beat on and Shaman and Kyle to muck with. 😑 In any case, we would sense this supposed "ability" of Juggernaut's shield and avoid it.

Oh yeah, and about Shaman and Kyle: YOU STILL HAVE NOT PROVEN THEY COULD ATACK OUT OF THE SHIELD!!!!

Without said proof, you have an 80ft, non-flying juggs with globes vs all 3 of us. Doesn’t look real good . . .

About Nimrod: I wonder what site your going to "misquote" next. I guess if it doesn't say what you want you can always change it and hope nobody notices.... We are all aware of the on panel evidence that shows sonic attacks hurting Juggs and the pathetic "proof" you've used to rebut it (even before you altered it). The site you quoted is only a fan site. Hell it says so ON THE FIRST DAMN PAGE! Is that really the best you could do?

"Also the MarvelDirectory is in no way connect to Marvel Entertainment, we don't know anyone at Marvel and can not contact anyone at Marvel."
http://www.marveldirectory.com/directory.htm

And of course you are crying cis/pis! You can't find any evidence to support your claims and you can only make so much up. Perhaps you should have actually thought up a strategy you could legitimately prove... Hal's ring scanned the constrictor and could not detect a single weakness in this force field meaning that it couldn't tell Hal to use a single one of his abilities to escape. It took the combined powers of both Hal and Barry to escape as they later stated. What you think it means is irrelevant. HAL COULDN'T DO IT BY HIMSELF!

***Judges, I would again like to point out that they have failed to prove how Kyle can in any way duplicate the Skyfather or greater magic that was used to manipulate Juggs's body.

And they seem to have a problem keeping track of their own plan: So you're only using Juggy's shield as a "speed stealer", huh? :laughing: Now you are saying that you can actually CONTROL what ‘aspects’ of the shield’s powers you employ??! That is un-frickin’-believeable . . .

And in any event, that is NOT what you said in your opening post...."then Juggs puts up his forcefield which does not allow anything to get through it." It's sad when WE know your plan better than you do.

doh

That being said, if you are NOT using Juggs's force field as protection (and are somehow ONLY using this ‘speed stealing aspect’ :laughing: ) I can only think you didn't take the time to think out the consequences. That means from the start of the fight we can ALSO attack your team in any way we want. We could simply teleport into juggs helmet and psy blast him or change his armor into bubbles then take him out. Your ‘plans’ are really helping us out. Good job #thumb up#

And about Shaman: he never erected a personal shield before the fight and since your not using Juggy's shield as protection then we can instantly take him out by transmuting the air around him to acid. Even if Kyle realized what had happened and tried to transmute the acid back to air, Shaman would already be horribly burned and crippled if not dead. By the way, Max and Hal could add their wills to the attack, making it IMPOSSIBLE for Kyle to overcome the assault . . . 😄

Not that Shaman is a big concern as your own partner admits he can't harm our team of GLs.

"Now I'll bet the GL rings can handle the magic, but SS has had a small flaw when it comes to high end magic" - Blair Wind

Add to the fact that the SS (without a GL ring) has faced much more powerful magic than Shaman is capable of and even if he wasn't dead in the first seconds of the fight, he'd still be useless.

ss vs loki:
http://img506.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sslokild0.jpg
http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssloki1ib4.jpg

ss v mephisto
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssmephistoyd1.jpg
http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssvmephisto1jt4.jpg
http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssvmeph2hk3.jpg

Oh, we are happy to oblige and show SS manipulating matter from miles away as well:

Here the SS rebuilds an entire city
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/ss_enslavers_74.jpg

Matter manipulates the bodies of beings scattered across an entire space station:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosPowUnlim_1996_004_27.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosPowUnlim_1996_004_28.jpg

Manipulates every atom of a planet:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-016.jpg

Here is the gist of their plan:

-- manipulate Juggs and make him huge (which they can't do without skyfather magic) then use an invincible, speed stealing shield.

-- seal GL and Shaman in his helmet and have them attack while they are somehow trapped in the shield

-- have Juggs shoot "tree destroying globes" at us then . . . punch us out using his unrivaled speed? 😕

Problems? No proof they CAN manipulate Juggs. No proof Shaman or Kyle COULD attack out of the shield no matter what "type" of shield they want to use. No proof what exactly Shaman’s mind dust spell DOES!

Then they even try to dictate what KIND of shield they are using, (like there’s a remote control in juggs helmet which allows them to change the shield to whatever they want!) changing it from what they first said and making it EASIER for us to win! Even if you buy their cock and bull theory that Juggy actually has a "speed stealing shield" then it will also steal the speed of any attack they try to hit us with and that means they come into the fight with NO DEFENSES!

Hilarious!

This is OUR plan:

-- we watched and monitored in the beginning to allow flexibility in altering our plan if necessary.

-- we sense and see what they have done, rendering our disguises unnecessary. We sense the shield immediately or as we try to approach it instantly. Don’t forget, ss’s cosmic awareness is ENHANCED by a ring!!

-- Knowing the only chance they have is to have Juggs . . . punch us, we move well back and attack from a distance. The air inside of Juggy's shield gets turned into acid killing the unprotected Shaman, Juggy gets ensased in adamantium and teleported off the battle field, and Kyle gets triple teamed by GL Surfer, GL Maxima, and a sundipped Kryptonian GL Hal with mulitple rings.

Shaman and Kyle can do nothing inside the shield (a point they REPEATEDLY ignored then tried to ‘fix’ by saying they use ONLY the ‘speed stealing’ part of the shield – seriously the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard in a debate). Regardless they can't prove that Juggy's shield can prevent us from manipulating the matter inside of it or just teleporting past it. They trapped their guys inside Jugg's shield, screwed themselves in the process, and tried changing it making it EASIER for us. A rather disappointing battle . . .

OK then I will take this first part to apologize for the Nimrod incident. BW and I before we post anything send eachother our posts and then we go over them redediting them about 3-4 times cutting out different words at the time to streamline and make things look better. Now it easy going through to see a word and take it out without fully reading everything around. I can gaurentee though on my word that there was no attempt at trying to hide anything or purposely trying to fabricate the quote. I will take the blame though for not realizing the mistake when I posted it though. That one is my fault.

No back to the shields Khan your being a bit arrogant in all this talk aren't you. If you read our first post and the scan we are using the scan of him using the Momentum Halting aspect of his sheild. You can try to reword it six ways to Sunday but the truth is in the image. Juggs talks about the Shields momentum stealing aspect of it, and the Hammer touches him apparntly he can control how the shield is used unless seeing isn't believing anymore?????

Still though say people don't take cold hard facts anymore and for some reason happen to agree with you if we can't attack out then what makes you think you can attak in. It isn't a double standard here Khan either nothing gets through or some things can and we still can attack either you choose to aknowledge one part or the other. You can't have it both ways it just doesn't work that way sorry Leo/Khan but you can't have your cake and eat to. Basically if you want to have it your way here is how that works out

I don't think they'll be able to affect the air inside Juggs forcefield either to be honest. Those Cytorrak shields are pretty sturdy. They don't let things in or out (which is why Dr. Strange always invokes the power of Cytorrak to trap someone in the Crimson Bands). It repels Godblasts. Meaning if you get what you want you aren't attacking us inside it as long as it is up.

Now back onto this constricter all you proved is that it had no weaknesses so therefore Hal couldn't break a big difference between breaking something an teleporting away from it.

Next on your supposed SS magic immunty scans all you did was show he could out muscle a few magic weilders and take some good blasts. A number of characters can say the same Superman being one of them even though he has a weakness to maigc. Now the difference in those scan is we are casting magic spells effecting you directly not launching magic beams at you. So once again so us something better than that actually.
Still despite that laughing stock of scans you say makes SS immune to magic you also failed to post any for your other team memebers your not looking so good right now Leo/Khan.

Also as BW has already stated Shaman is as safe as anyone on this field can be.

Now on to Juggernaut's only "tree busting" Globs well apprantly that isn't all his long range attacks can harm. Let's see how about sending a being that was threating the reality of Earth and who was basically owning Strange without having to lift a finger and was discribed as allpowerful in his realm
http://img414.imageshack.us/img414/5061/drstrange1821415vy0.jpg
But hey hey if you think your guys can take them head by all means do so.

Oh by the way like I said for all your guys supposed speed they are still very hitable I mean Loki has hit Surfer, Hal has been hit, Maxima has been hit by slow people. You guys aren't dodging hundreds og Giant Globs without completely focusing on it not leaving anyother time for you to do. So yeah let me see your guys dodging tons of things flying straight at them without being hit once then I could consider believing you somewhat.

Now on to Giant Juggs again man you guys are stubborn and don't people hopefully see through this simple ploy like everything else. Juggs has been shown to grow insize now Kyle can do it but once again just to show you guys that it doesn't matter even if it is true Shaman can just as easily do it as well. His magic is quite formidable and has tangled and messed with Skyfather level beings before so I assume that he could do the same as well. Face it just becuase you think Kyle may not be able to do it doesn't mean we can't. I mean honestly a lot of what we say about Shaman or Kyle can infact be used interchangebly between the two nice try though but even though Kyle can do it shaman can do it just as easily if we need.

For all this open time you guys think you have by doing a million things after the start of fight you seem to think you guys are gonna be the ones getting the first blow in. Once again you guys seem to think you have all the time on the world well you don't basically you have time to maybe get one attack off before Shaman completely destroys you guys.

The best part you are trying to tell us you know our plan better than us but in reality you are the ones that seem to forget everything they've done try and hide while doing sixty different things at once then your going to attack us before we can do the same even though we have done only a few things after prep and Shaman was convently free during all this to Mindrape you guys all before your even finished doing half of what you guys have tried to say.

Honestly you are trying to tell everyone here we have but a few moments before it is all over when in fact you are ones that have very little time to do anything.

Judges
All they've done again is try to claim things that we have already proved by scans while they are the ones with the least amount of evidence. They are ones with no real defence for our attacks.

Even with all this obvious false sayings they still have to create more to try and beat us. They are making things up about us trying to say they can do things but we can't do the same things. This double standard strategy is quite easily shown by the shield.

First the false claim trying to compeletly blow off every fact we've shown with on panel proof by saying that it can't do what we want it despite it being there for everyone to see.
Now the Double standard they created with this. They say they can attack us in the shield but we can't attak them with similar attacks. Thats the double standard they are trying to use to beat us when in fact anyone can see that it is a stupid claim. Even though we all know if we can't attack out then they wouldn't be able to attack us on the inside

Oh besides Khan/Leo you say we have changed eveything we've said but basically we pretty much said the same thing from the very begining. We have a giant Juggs shooting out high powered Globs(by the hundreds) at you while Shaman Magic Mindrapes pretty easily hey if anyone has changed their plan the most it was you guys.

Now everyone I know it seems like we have been purely on the defence in these posts but that is only because the other team hasn't really offered a good enough rebuttal to our attacks to really need us to go over their posts and attack to much its that simple. So until they actually offer something more than a bunch of unproven claims I'm content on just telling everyone where they are doing the things they are accusing us on.

Face it Leo/Khan you haven't offered one actuall bit of actuall proof to give us problems just a bunch of heresay that is worthless and easily shown as such.

Like you said I was actually expecting a better battle from you guys but all I've gotten is a piss poor effort from you guys. Basically lieing, trying to argue stuff that has already been proven with pretty much little room for error and then trying to create double standards that have no factual basis because you know you have nothing else.

Kahn- 2
leo- 2
Blair- 0
newjak- 3

Wow...spelled backwards....is wow. You guys are great. No really you are. I bow down to your obvious lack of contradiction.....you guys have it sooo planned out dont you? I mean from the very opening post you stated that your going to be monitoring us and then decide to attack us right? Your gonna be faaaaar away. Here let me refresh your memory as to what you said: (and this is of course after your 1 hour double prep strategies you had going on right?......)

The GL SS (who looks like Max) will port to Juggs

GL Max (who appears to be Hal) will port to Shaman and proceed to neutralize him. Again our character has a vast speed, strength, and durability advantage

People they committed their players to teleporting next to us, now they have to deal with it.
And Leo actually had the balls to tell newjak that one thing he mentioned wasn't in his pm statement when that's exactly what Kahn and leo are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But THAT of course was after all their prepping/strategy statements right??? I could understand if it was the old rule of 15 minutes of prep, but Digimark007 cut it down to 30 seconds specifically to limit the kind of crap leo/Kahn are trying to pull off. Not to mention, they seem to continue even more with their prepping strategy even into the beginning of the battle!!! What do they expect us to do? Just sit and wait there for them to be done with them prepping each other? I mean Hal changing himself into a Kryptonian, sundipping himself, making him immune to k-nite/red sun radiation, making these opaque shields, making rings for everybody, etc. etc. What the f*ck!!?? They spend all that time and we MAGICALLY MIND RAPE them. Simple as that!

We on the other hand are TOTALLY shielded with Juggs. Nothing you have can harm us. Once in his shield Kyle can do a few things (this is all while your doing your one hour prep plan. The magic mind raping should coincide with your hal enhancing).
(A) He can give Shaman 10 rings and let the ring download instantly the information on how to use them basically
He [shaman] has been shown to feel people's emotions, as well as been shown to project what a person sees or feels into another person's mind. He has been shown to telepathically link his mind to his daughter from deep space battling the Infinity War, while his daughter was on Earth. Also since his powers partly depend on faith and willpower he could therefore use them as well. He can as well give one to Juggernaut (a man who spent ten years digging himself free thats some willpower man).

(B) Give Juggs some earplugs and some sunglasses to block out any sensory attacks (which by the way after Nimrod did his HIGHLY FUTURISTIC, HIGHLY FOCUSED beam he got straight up with no harm). *PLUS he did not have his regular helmet but his skull cap nor did he have his forcefield on.* and a rocket pack to fly.
and

(C) he can pre program his ring to teleport them the picosecond juggs lowers his forcefield, while at the same time doing this (with shield lowered): http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8405/greenlanternv2175joxerdcppg30tr7.jpg
That ladies and gentlemen would be a singularity (think black hole.....without the hole) (Juggs of course would just walk in the other direction and nothing could stop him) while at the same time surrounding the enemy in some unknown pyschoplasmic energy shields:
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=glonemillion153wm.jpg
and a whole team cant get past those (that includes an evil superman and a evil GL)
http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hrjlaearth20538vf.jpg
Which could how you say....constrict you? Push inwards and make you implode?
and right before teleporting Shaman magically mind rapes them letting them be passive AND seeing their phobias* (making them extremely passive while at the same time afraid). How can this attack work while in Cytorraks shield? Its a rock that gives out a MAGICAL light and works on the mind and as stated made the hulk with all his anger passive as a baby. Being magical in nature it would prove to be nigh impossible for your team to overcome. Sorry but you just got magically mind cleansed 😬 (and all this just while you were STILL creating a hal kryptonian.....damn sorry good plan to bad it didnt fall through 😬 *Phobias would come when the shield drops*

While juggs lowers the shield for them he continually blasts with his energy/magical blobs thus meaning you have three different distractions, all something that you cannot avoid and the moment they are gone Juggs raises his shields again. You were being sucked by Kyles singularity and trapped in a shield that a GL-type ring or Superman enraged could not find a way out of while being constricted, made as passive as a two year old while dealing with your fears, and had to deal with pesky huge magical blobs. You wouldnt have a moments notice (or even know) that Juggs shield have been lowered. It would raise up again, and again you would be caught like a fly in a spiders web.

Now my favorite part. Kyle has shown to make rings. However the ONE ring which comes back to the owner ALWAYS (no matter what *getting taken off, teleportation, ect ect.) is guess whos? Well dammit its NOT Hals....its Kyles. And while your stuck in a shield trying to come up with some way to get out, we teleport the rings away from your guys (meaning well Hal just became a normal human.....damn)

And they seem to have a problem keeping track of their own plan: So you're only using Juggy's shield as a "speed stealer", huh? :laughing: Now you are saying that you can actually CONTROL what 'aspects' of the shield's powers you employ??!

The shield has a speed stealing ability to it. It also wont let any attacks happen to us, and well wont let us offensively hurt you now will it.........oh wait your already mind wiped 😬

not that Shaman is a big concern as your own partner admits he can't harm our team of GLs.

Even if you buy their cock and bull theory that Juggy actually has a "speed stealing shield"

Regardless they can't prove that Juggy's shield can prevent us from manipulating the matter inside of it or just teleporting past it

So BASICALLY what has been done is that (as newjak will explain) either Shaman (by magically supplying him with more power) or Kyle (through the use of ten rings) can make Juggernaut grow.

From then we
(1) trap them into a speed stealing shield they willingly walked into
(2) Make Shaman and Juggs more powerful (without fifty million different HIGH END effects needed) *which by the way doesnt surfer get exhausted quickly?*
(3) Teleport off all rings while blasting them with Juggs own Cytorrak induced magical bubbles, mind raping them, and having them go at a singularity while again stuck in another impenetrable shield (which unlike Hal he didnt try to find a "weak" spot in the forcefield itself but a way out. Teleportation could therefore be considered an unusable technique)
(4) Pick them off with Magical attacks (remember your passive while scared at the same time) via Shaman *and you have YET shown how you could deal with a prison of PURE order:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-16.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight126-17.jpg
(battle against Carcass, a disciple of Khaos continues. If the team fails all of reality will be destroyed, but thankfully Alpha Flight kicks all kinds of ass. Seeing as no one on your team has pure Chaos Im not sure how your getting out of that one, plus by destroying it he killed himself )
also any magical energy that he gives out he could quite simply make incompatible with the members of your team. Basically? You just blow up. Magically 😈
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight18-14.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight18-15.jpg
and Kyle can attack from the outside via his ten rings, plus Shamans rings as well...which would provide any protection from there so called matter manipulation. Once stuck in the shield they would not be able to get away from Juggs, be INCREDIBLY slowed down, would not be able to offensively due ANYTHING to our team (since they ARE in one of Cytorraks shields....which Dr. Strange seems to think are pretty damn powerful since he uses them all the time) while Juggs can SIMPLY walk up to them and physically abuse them.

Judges thank you for your time, and its good to know that now YOU know all the contradictions the other team has in there plans. Blair Wind has spoken 😄

herbwank

Originally posted by batdude123
herbwank