Originally posted by Syren
I didn't mention making them feel more welcome in the OTF specifically. I just said that once new members have left the Welcome forum and venture anywhere else they're generally treated badly, or so I've noticed. How could you possibly find a problem with a positive idea?
Because if they come here to dwell in the OTF then the chances are that they aren't the right material anywhere else. The smart members that dwell around the OTF aren't solely OTF members, they found the OTF after.
Originally posted by Syren
The Welcome forum does its job, admittedly, but it seems really mechanical to me. You know for sure that in the welcome forum you're guaranteed a nice, open-armed hello. But everywhere else is filled to the brim with people who seriously think they're superior to every new member and I'd rather see newcomers treated with courtesy. Yet you've found reason to view this effort as something to be argued against, I can't see why.
Courtesy, why? Or I guess I should be asking, what's more useful than the W.F? You realise that hardly any of the well known members used that particular forum when they arrived, right? They just posted wherever. So what's your general intent here? Post to someone in the middle of the debate and say "Welcome to KMC"? People in the W.F do that, just because you mean it doesn't make it any less mechanical.
I'm not saying don't do it, do what you want. I'm simply saying that I think the idea is a bit OTF born and a bit pointless.
Originally posted by Syren
What's wrong with patriotism, actually?
That's a GDF debate, so if you do want to go to that area of debate and get torn to shreds, I would advise creating a thread there.
Patriotism is pathetic, but that's a whole other debate.
Originally posted by Syren
I'm proud to be a member of KMC, I think the forum as a whole is quite good, although it could be better in a lot of ways. Why do you post here if you don't enjoy it and don't achieve a sense of satisfaction from the discussions you partake in? To alleviate boredom alone? Get a hobby.
Stop getting your panties in a twist. I never said I don't "enjoy" posting here, it passes the time. I chose to sign up, why is that anything to be proud of? You chose to sign up to an internet forum that is decent, why is that an achievement to you?
Stop being so insecure about things, I'm just asking you "Why?", I'm not saying you're wrong, besides the patriotism thing.
Originally posted by Syren
I just don't see how making new members feel truly welcome and as comfortable as the older members could possibly be a bad thing.
I didn't say it was a "bad" thing either.
New members will never be as comfortable as old members because they are just that, new members. If they turn out to be of any value, then they're probably smart enough to realise that it's a bit pointless to welcome people who probably couldn't care any less.
If you want to, fine. I'm voicing my opinion.
-AC
Originally posted by Xirius
Oh............so is that why [B]you're posting here? 😕 [/B]
I meant the literal shit and piss threads. Where else do they go? Nowhere.
I don't spend my time creating 10 threads a day here, I post in the occasional thread if I wish to talk to someone randomly and it's not private. It has a purpose, and that's being the OTF. I'm not proposing it gets deleted, I'm proposing it gets kept.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Courtesy, why? Or I guess I should be asking, what's more useful than the W.F? You realise that hardly any of the well known members used that particular forum when they arrived, right? They just posted wherever. So what's your general intent here? Post to someone in the middle of the debate and say "Welcome to KMC"? People in the W.F do that, just because you mean it doesn't make it any less mechanical.
As Syren mentioned, the point isn't to literally "Welcome" people a second time on a different thread, the point is to not insult or be hostile towards people just for being new. The point is to give them a chance to get used to KMC so they can fit in, and become valued members.....etc.
Originally posted by Xirius
As Syren mentioned, the point isn't to literally "Welcome" people a second time on a different thread, the point is to not insult or be hostile towards people just for being new. The point is to give them a chance to get used to KMC so they can fit in, and become valued members.....etc.
So why does this need any welcoming? It's not a matter of welcoming, is it? It's simply not harassing newbies, which I proposed was stupid a long time ago. I was new once, I just didn't post like an epileptic at a strobe light factory, I didn't make dumb threads and I wasn't an idiot in general. I'm sure a lot of the OTF dwellers are the same.
Most of the new people that join today end up being throwaway nobodies who are either socks or might as well be socks. If you want to become a valued member, then conduct yourself properly.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So why does this need any welcoming? It's not a matter of welcoming, is it? It's simply not harassing newbies, which I proposed was stupid a long time ago. I was new once, I just didn't post like an epileptic at a strobe light factory, I didn't make dumb threads and I wasn't an idiot in general. I'm sure a lot of the OTF dwellers are the same.Most of the new people that join today end up being throwaway nobodies who are either socks or might as well be socks. If you want to become a valued member, then conduct yourself properly.
-AC
But a lot of new members are a lot younger than some of the established members, and its not any harm for those established members to conduct themselves properly, and help new members adjust to the forum instead of attacking them needlessly.
Im not saying that all new members are just unused to the forum, quite a few are probably just assh*les, but that doesnt mean that none of them should be given some time to prove that they aren't like that.
Originally posted by Xirius
But a lot of new members are a lot younger than some of the established members, and its not any harm for those established members to conduct [B]themselves properly, and help new members adjust to the forum instead of attacking them needlessly.
Im not saying that all new members are just unused to the forum, quite a few are probably just assh*les, but that doesnt mean that none of them should be given some time to prove that they aren't like that. [/B]
If they're smart at all they can ignore the bashing, I did. That's what I don't get, this whole thing is about the bashing of new members, but they can ignore it.
Or alternatively, just not bring it on themselves.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because if they come here to dwell in the OTF then the chances are that they aren't the right material anywhere else. The smart members that dwell around the OTF aren't solely OTF members, they found the OTF after.
Why are you constantly referring to the OTF? Just because I posted this thread here? Perhaps I should have created it in the GDF, where I would have been more likely to get better responses because the people who post there are that little bit worthier of being heard than the people here? To be honest, I've met some very interesting and inspiring people both in the GDF and the OTF; just because the OTF is considered the shithole of KMC that does not automatically mean every member who regularly posts in it is a shithead.
Again, I did not mention the OTF specifically in my first post. This thread was intended to ask why people are so hostile towards new members without reason and to see whether it would be worth making any extra effort to create more of a comfortable atmosphere for newcomers. I still don't think that's a negative idea.
Courtesy, why? Or I guess I should be asking, what's more useful than the W.F? You realise that hardly any of the well known members used that particular forum when they arrived, right? They just posted wherever. So what's your general intent here? Post to someone in the middle of the debate and say "Welcome to KMC"? People in the W.F do that, just because you mean it doesn't make it any less mechanical.I'm not saying don't do it, do what you want. I'm simply saying that I think the idea is a bit OTF born and a bit pointless.
Why not? Courtesy can never be considered a bad thing and I don't think you can provide too much of it. If anything, KMC needs to show more, that much is obvious to me. I also did not say I was going to lead my 'committee' around KMC and derail perfectly sensible threads just to get our welcome across. My whole point here was that if a new member makes a thread, or a first post out of the W.F, wherever it may be, we should try to make that new member feel welcome. I didn't say we were going to go out of our way to hunt down new members and crown them.
That's a GDF debate, so if you do want to go to that area of debate and get torn to shreds, I would advise creating a thread there.Patriotism is pathetic, but that's a whole other debate.
Ironically, I'm not what I would consider a patriot of queen and country. I don't tend to think about it and when I do, I just get pissed off with all the things that are wrong. Also, why do you automatically assume I'd be torn to shreds? Stop making assumptions about me, please. I cannot believe you're trying to make me feel stupid for making a thread with entirely good intentions 🙄
Stop getting your panties in a twist. I never said I don't "enjoy" posting here, it passes the time. I chose to sign up, why is that anything to be proud of? You chose to sign up to an internet forum that is decent, why is that an achievement to you?Stop being so insecure about things, I'm just asking you "Why?", I'm not saying you're wrong, besides the patriotism thing.
My panties are perfectly forward-facing, thank you. The achievement comes in submitting something positive to a conversation, you know this. Don't bother telling me you've never felt a sense of satisfaction during a discussion in the GDF. I know for a fact that you've probably felt a lot like a heavyweight champion when you've laid your 'smackdown' on some unsuspecting, yet ignorant, participant over there. You couldn't deny that feeling of achievement so please don't lie. It's human nature.
I didn't say it was a "bad" thing either.New members will never be as comfortable as old members because they are just that, new members. If they turn out to be of any value, then they're probably smart enough to realise that it's a bit pointless to welcome people who probably couldn't care any less.
If you want to, fine. I'm voicing my opinion.
-AC
I understand that as a new member, the forum will naturally be a more daunting place than it is for the older members. But that's exactly my point; why should the older members have the right to make it even more so? If anything we should be trying to make it more comfortable as a natural response, again I'm asking you why you've chosen to approach this whole idea in a negative manner.
Also, I'm not in any way offended, please don't refer to my underwear again and please be aware that I'm appreciative of your effort here AC. It's not often we get the chance to see you doing what you do best over here in the OTF. I'm sure we're all honoured 😛
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If they're smart at all they can ignore the bashing, I did. That's what I don't get, this whole thing is about the bashing of new members, but they can ignore it.Or alternatively, just not bring it on themselves.
-AC
Well not all people can coldly ignore bashing. Just because you ignored it, you somehow feel that makes you a better forum member than people who didnt ignore it?
What does being smart have to do with putting up with bashing? You seem to have the opinion that being cold, or not caring about other people's opinions is a sign of intelligence, as opposed to arrogance?
Not all members bring it on themselves, thats the point in giving them time to adjust!
Its a sad thing that this thread even has to be made, its even more tragic that some people cant see the point in simple courtesy to others.
Originally posted by Syren
Why are you constantly referring to the OTF? Just because I posted this thread here? Perhaps I should have created it in the GDF, where I would have been more likely to get better responses because the people who post there are that little bit worthier of being heard than the people here? To be honest, I've met some very interesting and inspiring people both in the GDF and the OTF; just because the OTF is considered the shithole of KMC that does not automatically mean every member who regularly posts in it is a shithead.
I didn't say they were, but if it's a matter of what forum has the more valuable members, then it's clearly the GDF. Even in the event that someone there is an idiot, at the very least they can form concise posts about a debate that you can discuss with. Hardly any "regular" and sole OTF dwellers do that. Either they can't or they don't want to, so it proves my point.
The same goes for the music forum. Infact, even less there, because if anything that's more critical. It applies more to the OTF because this is where most new member errant threads are moved to, where people are bashed, where all the "Kill the Noobs" threads are.
Originally posted by Syren
Again, I did not mention the OTF specifically in my first post. This thread was intended to ask why people are so hostile towards new members without reason and to see whether it would be worth making any extra effort to create more of a comfortable atmosphere for newcomers. I still don't think that's a negative idea.
Well you should have been clearer, really. If your intention isn't to make more effort to welcome new members, but to make it easier for them to post without being harassed, then that makes more sense. I proposed the same thing ages ago, but still, if they won't meet half way and stop posting like idiots, what can you do? People value Vinny...in the OTF, and look at his threads. Harmless, no worries there, but hardly anything of merit.
Originally posted by Syren
Why not? Courtesy can never be considered a bad thing and I don't think you can provide too much of it. If anything, KMC needs to show more, that much is obvious to me. I also did not say I was going to lead my 'committee' around KMC and derail perfectly sensible threads just to get our welcome across. My whole point here was that if a new member makes a thread, or a first post out of the W.F, wherever it may be, we should try to make that new member feel welcome. I didn't say we were going to go out of our way to hunt down new members and crown them.
As I said above, the purpose should be to stop OTFers trying to burn new members at the stake, but also, new members should try to post in a sensible way. If someone new posts in the GDF, and they happen to not be a sock, they won't get a word said to them if they have the ability to type properly.
You can usually tell when someone's established or if they intend to spam or sock. Socks or spammers usually have throwaway names like "Pinkgirl3737_827". As opposed to "Syren" or "Alpha Centauri". People who know they will be here often pick a suitable name, not some spam number. I just think it's better left to it's own devices, really. The ones that want to stay, will stay.
Originally posted by Syren
Ironically, I'm not what I would consider a patriot of queen and country. I don't tend to think about it and when I do, I just get pissed off with all the things that are wrong. Also, why do you automatically assume I'd be torn to shreds? Stop making assumptions about me, please. I cannot believe you're trying to make me feel stupid for making a thread with entirely good intentions 🙄
Well that's what patriotism means; Unquestionable devotion to one's country or homeland. Why am I assuming you'll get torn to shreds? Because if you have an unquestionable devotion to your country for some conditioned reason, to the point of defending patriotism, that's the only way you can go.
You can't help where you're born, so there's no point loving it for the sake of loving it. I love parts of London because I've grown to decide that I like it, I don't love "this country" because I was born here. A) I've never seen enough of the actual country to say I love it, and B) It's land.
Originally posted by Syren
My panties are perfectly forward-facing, thank you. The achievement comes in submitting something positive to a conversation, you know this. Don't bother telling me you've never felt a sense of satisfaction during a discussion in the GDF. I know for a fact that you've probably felt a lot like a heavyweight champion when you've laid your 'smackdown' on some unsuspecting, yet ignorant, participant over there. You couldn't deny that feeling of achievement so please don't lie. It's human nature.
So now you resort to OTF style debating also? Oh how the mighty fall.
It's not satisfaction at all, I get satisfaction after I do something that requires effort. Posting on this forum is effortless and nothing to be proud of. If everyone else is proud of me "laying the smackdown", then great. I couldn't care less, it's easy to me. You refusing to accept that I get no satisfaction out of it doesn't mean I do.
If it's hard for you to do so, to the point that doing it makes you feel satisfied, fine. Not to me.
Originally posted by Syren
I understand that as a new member, the forum will naturally be a more daunting place than it is for the older members. But that's exactly my point; why should the older members have the right to make it even more so? If anything we should be trying to make it more comfortable as a natural response, again I'm asking you why you've chosen to approach this whole idea in a negative manner.
Because you put it across as being something directed at the new members, rather than inspired by the new members and aimed at the older ones.
I still honestly don't see the point, as previously said, but if you feel you want to do it, do it.
Originally posted by Syren
Also, I'm not in any way offended, please don't refer to my underwear again and please be aware that I'm appreciative of your effort here AC. It's not often we get the chance to see you doing what you do best over here in the OTF. I'm sure we're all honoured 😛
Fine, other twistable clothing will suffice, and I'm sure you all are.
-AC
Originally posted by SyrenYou had me at hello. 😱
Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.
I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we were truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.
Who's with me? eyes
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well you should have been clearer, really. If your intention isn't to make more effort to welcome new members, but to make it easier for them to post without being harassed, then that makes more sense. I proposed the same thing ages ago, but still, if they won't meet half way and stop posting like idiots, what can you do? People value Vinny...in the OTF, and look at his threads. Harmless, no worries there, but hardly anything of merit.Because you put it across as being something directed at the new members, rather than inspired by the new members and aimed at the older ones.
These paragraphs give the impression that you saw the title and started forming arguments straight away, because if you had waited to read the opening post properly, without creating an opinion on it beforehand, you would have understood the point of the thread and who it was directed at.
Originally posted by Syren
Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.
I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we were truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.
Who's with me? eyes
Now where do I put the all the money I pick-pocked from n00bs over the month.