Welcoming New Members

Originally posted by Xirius
These paragraphs give the impression that you saw the title and started forming arguments straight away, because if you had waited to read the opening post properly, without creating an opinion on it beforehand, you would have understood the point of the thread and who it was directed at.

It doesn't, does it? Because my argument couldn't be formed off the back of "Welcoming New Members.". Stop the exaggeration, please. Though admittedly...wait...let's go back, "Welcoming New Members.". What does that say to you?

"I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here."

Funny, because Syren said that. She never made it clear that her idea wasn't so much a welcoming committee, but trying to stop the new members being harassed, which is what she just said was her goal.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I didn't say they were, but if it's a matter of what forum has the more valuable members, then it's clearly the GDF. Even in the event that someone there is an idiot, at the very least they can form concise posts about a debate that you can discuss with. Hardly any "regular" and sole OTF dwellers do that. Either they can't or they don't want to, so it proves my point.

The same goes for the music forum. Infact, even less there, because if anything that's more critical. It applies more to the OTF because this is where most new member errant threads are moved to, where people are bashed, where all the "Kill the Noobs" threads are.

I agree, in a sense. Doesn't it depend on what each individual considers 'valuable'? If we're looking for mature, intelligent and overall well-written responses to serious discussions then we're going to head straight to the GDF. But if we're looking for relaxed, humorous and generally enjoyable fun we'll stick to the OTF. That's why there are separate boards, apart from the obvious segregation due to content. It's up to each member to decide where they want to post and why. But you're right, crap is tolerated in the OTF because it's the OTF and all the crap would inevitably end up elsewhere if it didn't exist. But that doesn't mean that the OTF-dwellers have more of a right to mutilate new members, plus I was talking in general about everyone's approach towards newcomers, not whether the GDF is better than the OTF. Surely this discussion would be better in the 'Our Beloved OTF' thread 😛

Well you should have been clearer, really. If your intention isn't to make more effort to welcome new members, but to make it easier for them to post without being harassed, then that makes more sense. I proposed the same thing ages ago, but still, if they won't meet half way and stop posting like idiots, what can you do? People value Vinny...in the OTF, and look at his threads. Harmless, no worries there, but hardly anything of merit.

I accept that I should have been clearer. My apologies for any confusion. I would rather newcomers were not harassed solely on the basis that they are newcomers, and allowed more time to find a niche and prove themselves as worthy members of the forum, no matter which board they decide to frequent most often.

As I said above, the purpose should be to stop OTFers trying to burn new members at the stake, but also, new members should try to post in a sensible way. If someone new posts in the GDF, and they happen to not be a sock, they won't get a word said to them if they have the ability to type properly.

You can usually tell when someone's established or if they intend to spam or sock. Socks or spammers usually have throwaway names like "Pinkgirl3737_827". As opposed to "Syren" or "Alpha Centauri". People who know they will be here often pick a suitable name, not some spam number. I just think it's better left to it's own devices, really. The ones that want to stay, will stay.

I also agree that it's a two way thing, if the older members are going to make more of an effort with the newer members, then the newer members should perhaps try a little harder to make a good impression. Especially if they are looking to be accepted as a member of any worth and are intending to stay here long term.

Well that's what patriotism means; Unquestionable devotion to one's country or homeland. Why am I assuming you'll get torn to shreds? Because if you have an unquestionable devotion to your country for some conditioned reason, to the point of defending patriotism, that's the only way you can go.

You can't help where you're born, so there's no point loving it for the sake of loving it. I love parts of London because I've grown to decide that I like it, I don't love "this country" because I was born here. A) I've never seen enough of the actual country to say I love it, and B) It's land.

Are we agreeing here? I don't recall saying we need to have an unquestionable devotion to KMC or our newcomers. I think I said that we should just try to be less hostile, as long as we aren't given valid reason to be. If you're referring to my asking why patriotism should be considered a bad thing, then I suppose I should clarify (again) what I meant. Pride in anything is fine, in my opinion, as long as it is validated. As you said, unquestionable devotion to something that is obviously unworthy is just ignorant and foolish.

So now you resort to OTF style debating also? Oh how the mighty fall.

It's not satisfaction at all, I get satisfaction after I do something that requires effort. Posting on this forum is effortless and nothing to be proud of. If everyone else is proud of me "laying the smackdown", then great. I couldn't care less, it's easy to me. You refusing to accept that I get no satisfaction out of it doesn't mean I do.

If it's hard for you to do so, to the point that doing it makes you feel satisfied, fine. Not to me.

I didn't resort to 'OTF style debating', although I appreciate your labelling me mighty 🙄

Are you saying it doesn't require effort, even mental, to drive your point home when someone is acting like an absolute ignoramus? I've seen you in full flow AC, I can imagine how frustrated you get when the person you're having a discussion with refuses to see your point. I get frustrated on your behalf just reading it! As I said, it's human nature to feel proud when you've proved someone wrong, especially when you know for a fact that you're 100% right and have many people agreeing with you. Whether you deny it or not, I can't believe you don't feel any kind of satisfaction; you're not infallible, you are human.

Because you put it across as being something directed at the new members, rather than inspired by the new members and aimed at the older ones.

I still honestly don't see the point, as previously said, but if you feel you want to do it, do it.

Fine, other twistable clothing will suffice, and I'm sure you all are.

-AC

Again, I should have been clearer. I genuinely would like to see the hostility and loathing towards new members lessen, as would most people here. If we can achieve that then I'd be more inclined to feel proud of this forum.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't, does it? Because my argument couldn't be formed off the back of "Our Beloved OTF - Deleted?". Stop the exaggeration, please.

"I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here."

Funny, because Syren said that. She never made it clear that her idea wasn't so much a welcoming committee, but trying to stop the new members being harassed, which is what she just said was her goal.

-AC

Xirius, although I can sense an underlying issue here that's less to do with this thread and more to do with a distinct lack of appreciation on your part for the way AC conducts himself, and although I appreciate your responses and obvious support, I am aware that I should have been clearer with my intentions when I started this thread. AC was right about that. But, as we're in the OTF and as most of the regular posters here know me and probably guessed my intentions anyway, I'm not too worried about any negative comments regarding this thread. I just want out newer members to feel less intimidated when they join; I don't care about anyone's problems with that 😊

Thanks though 😄

Originally posted by Syren
I agree, in a sense. Doesn't it depend on what each individual considers 'valuable'? If we're looking for mature, intelligent and overall well-written responses to serious discussions then we're going to head straight to the GDF. But if we're looking for relaxed, humorous and generally enjoyable fun we'll stick to the OTF. That's why there are separate boards, apart from the obvious segregation due to content. It's up to each member to decide where they want to post and why. But you're right, crap is tolerated in the OTF because it's the OTF and all the crap would inevitably end up elsewhere if it didn't exist. But that doesn't mean that the OTF-dwellers have more of a right to mutilate new members, plus I was talking in general about everyone's approach towards newcomers, not whether the GDF is better than the OTF. Surely this discussion would be better in the 'Our Beloved OTF' thread 😛

The OTF is a luxury afforded to members who simply can't grasp topics or don't wish to. It's a glorified chatroom, more or less, that's all.

If Raz chose to delete one forum, he would delete that with the least meaning, the OTF. If you want to chat, be sociable and things of that nature, you should go to a purely social forum or a chatroom, not a discussion board. Raz has allowed members this luxury, but that's all it is. It's not a valuable asset to the forum.

Originally posted by Syren
I accept that I should have been clearer. My apologies for any confusion. I would rather newcomers were not harassed solely on the basis that they are newcomers, and allowed more time to find a niche and prove themselves as worthy members of the forum, no matter which board they decide to frequent most often.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Syren
I also agree that it's a two way thing, if the older members are going to make more of an effort with the newer members, then the newer members should perhaps try a little harder to make a good impression. Especially if they are looking to be accepted as a member of any worth and are intending to stay here long term.

Also fair.

Originally posted by Syren
Are we agreeing here? I don't recall saying we need to have an unquestionable devotion to KMC or our newcomers. I think I said that we should just try to be less hostile, as long as we aren't given valid reason to be. If you're referring to my asking why patriotism should be considered a bad thing, then I suppose I should clarify (again) what I meant. Pride in anything is fine, in my opinion, as long as it is validated. As you said, unquestionable devotion to something that is obviously unworthy is just ignorant and foolish.[/quote[

There you go then, a little explanation and sensibility is all I ask for.

[QUOTE=7043384]Originally posted by Syren
I didn't resort to 'OTF style debating', although I appreciate your labelling me mighty 🙄

See, sense of achievement. That's what it's all about.

Originally posted by Syren
Are you saying it doesn't require effort, even mental, to drive your point home when someone is acting like an absolute ignoramus? I've seen you in full flow AC, I can imagine how frustrated you get when the person you're having a discussion with refuses to see your point. I get frustrated on your behalf just reading it! As I said, it's human nature to feel proud when you've proved someone wrong, especially when you know for a fact that you're 100% right and have many people agreeing with you. Whether you deny it or not, I can't believe you don't feel any kind of satisfaction; you're not infallible, you are human.

Let's review the key part of this post: "I can imagine how frustrated you get...". Yes, you can IMAGINE, that doesn't make it true. You get frustrated on my behalf, but I think we both know that we have different emotional dispositions, don't we?

I don't care whether you feel it's human nature or not, it's not a fact, because I am living proof that it's wrong, so are many people. It means nothing to me, because I don't debate in areas that I can prove people wrong unless I know I can. So therefore I'm not achieving anything by doing it, I already know I'm right. It's nothing to do with satisfaction.

Originally posted by Syren
Again, I should have been clearer. I genuinely would like to see the hostility and loathing towards new members lessen, as would most people here. If we can achieve that then I'd be more inclined to feel proud of this forum.

Why would you want to make effort to feel proud of this forum? Look at the threads.

Let's put this forward: The top used forum on the net comes to inspect KMC, you have to nominate one forum which indicated KMC deserves respect for its members and threads, right? How fast will you nominate the OTF with all it's Vinny threads, lounge threads and what not?

How fast will you nominate the GDF, with all its political, somewhat philosophical and mature debate topics? Members, also, for the most part being smarter.

I think we know.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Xirius, although I can sense an underlying issue here that's less to do with this thread and more to do with a distinct lack of appreciation on your part for the way AC conducts himself, and although I appreciate your responses and obvious support, I am aware that I should have been clearer with my intentions when I started this thread. AC was right about that. But, as we're in the OTF and as most of the regular posters here know me and probably guessed my intentions anyway, I'm not too worried about any negative comments regarding this thread. I just want out newer members to feel less intimidated when they join; I don't care about anyone's problems with that 😊

Thanks though 😄

Oh, and...*Hands Xirius a life-ring*.

On account of all the diving you do, buddy. I can "swim", I don't need one.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Xirius, although I can sense an underlying issue here that's less to do with this thread and more to do with a distinct lack of appreciation on your part for the way AC conducts himself, and although I appreciate your responses and obvious support, I am aware that I should have been clearer with my intentions when I started this thread. AC was right about that. But, as we're in the OTF and as most of the regular posters here know me and probably guessed my intentions anyway, I'm not too worried about any negative comments regarding this thread. I just want out newer members to feel less intimidated when they join; I don't care about anyone's problems with that 😊

Thanks though 😄

Well, while you might have been clearer, on my part, I understood what you meant after having read your first post. Since AC seems to hold himself as very intelligent, and I dont doubt that he is, it doesnt make sense to me that he wouldnt be able to understand it, unless he was basing his arguments on assumptions made before he read the post.

And there aren't really any underlying issues, this is the first time Ive interacted with AC, at least that I can remember, and I generally dont form opininos on people straight away.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So now you resort to OTF style debating also? Oh how the mighty fall.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh, and...*Hands Xirius a life-ring*.

On account of all the diving you do, buddy. I can "swim", I don't need one.

-AC

Of course you can swim, hypocrisy is buoyant.

Originally posted by Xirius
Well, while you might have been clearer, on my part, I understood what you meant after having read your first post. Since AC seems to hold himself as very intelligent, and I dont doubt that he is, it doesnt make sense to me that he wouldnt be able to understand it, unless he was basing his arguments on assumptions made [B]before he read the post.

And there aren't really any underlying issues, this is the first time Ive interacted with AC, at least that I can remember, and I generally dont form opininos on people straight away. [/B]

I'll explain it clearer since you appear to be locked in an epic struggle:

The post title is "Welcoming New Members.", so rather than taking it at face value, I read the post and she still came across in many ways as I proposed she was. She admits she wasn't clear, I wasn't misunderstanding her through any fault of my own. I read what was there and since then she has clarified her stance.

I told you, use the life-ring.

-AC

Originally posted by Xirius
Well, while you might have been clearer, on my part, I understood what you meant after having read your first post. Since AC seems to hold himself as very intelligent, and I dont doubt that he is, it doesnt make sense to me that he wouldnt be able to understand it, unless he was basing his arguments on assumptions made [B]before he read the post.

And there aren't really any underlying issues, this is the first time Ive interacted with AC, at least that I can remember, and I generally dont form opininos on people straight away. [/B]

You just formed an opinion, based on limited interaction, that he is un-intelligent.

Originally posted by Xirius
Of course you can swim, hypocrisy is buoyant.

Technically that would just make me float, I said swim.

Nice try, though.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh, and...*Hands Xirius a life-ring*.

On account of all the diving you do, buddy. I can "swim", I don't need one.

-AC

Wow....I expected better of you, AC.

Damn, and there I was hoping to get sleep tonight. What will I do now?

-AC

Originally posted by ~Da Moose~
You just formed an opinion, based on limited interaction, that he is un-intelligent.

I clearly said I dont doubt he's intelligent.

Originally posted by Xirius
I clearly said I dont doubt he's intelligent.

Yet you clearly also did the opposite and at the very least, implied that I have some kind of lacking in the understanding dept, which has now ironically left you floating like some kind of buoyant hypocrite.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll explain it clearer since you appear to be locked in an epic struggle:

The post title is "Welcoming New Members.", so rather than taking it at face value, I read the post and she still came across in many ways as I proposed she was. She admits she wasn't clear, I wasn't misunderstanding her through any fault of my own. I read what was there and since then she has clarified her stance.

I told you, use the life-ring.

-AC

Yes, I can clearly see the title. The post seemed perfectly clear to me, so why wouldnt it have been to you? 😕

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Damn, and there I was hoping to get sleep tonight. What will I do now?

-AC

No, seriously. You attempt to knock down Syren saying she "used OTF debating" when you some and use it yourself. The hypocrisy is killing me. You seem bound and determined to prove that the OTF is worse than every other forum ever, but it's not. You will fail in that mission. The OTF serves a purpose, and if you fail to see that purpose, you're not as intelligent as I thought.

Originally posted by Xirius
I clearly said I dont doubt he's intelligent.

My bad....but still, you judged him, saying he was intelligent....

🥷 Just trying to save face here....

😗

Originally posted by Xirius
Yes, I can clearly see the title. The post seemed perfectly clear to me, so why wouldnt it have been to you? 😕

Because I read the post, and the title, both clearly point to the misleading idea that Syren is more focused on making effort to welcome rather than making effort to stop the new members being harassed.

She even went so far as to suggest a welcoming committee.

-AC