Originally posted by PVS
its the same thing. refer to those without a degree as "uneducated" and those with a degree as "educated", as if the sum of all education is found in school.and yes, i have a degree, but no, i wont tell you as it doesnt matter.
an opinion with no evidence to support it is no more or less valid than anyone else's which has no proof/evidence. just hot air.
I agree with that. A degree does not say that you are more educated, just that you can learn.
well, i think a relevant degree certainly suggests geater education than the average opponent, however its meaningless. credentials have no place in a debate imho. its a crutch, and one which should not be needed. a truly educated person, gifted in knowledge of what they debate, should not need to even mention their credentials. to do so is pointless hot air. if you cant support your point, and that point is of your expertise....well you're paying that student loan for nothing....total rip off imho.
Alright. This is devolving into a personal discussion of respect for the person being discussed. I am referring to the guy with the computer science degree saying the computer can't do that, and the guy without a degree in computers and no experience in the field telling you it can. It seems that in some areas, my area is psychology, in particular people do not respect the education and the statements made based on that education. I am not talking about respect for the individual as a person. And I am not speaking about supplying sources in a debate, I am speaking in general.
Originally posted by Regret
Alright. This is devolving into a personal discussion of respect for the person being discussed. I am referring to the guy with the computer science degree saying the computer can't do that, and the guy without a degree in computers and no experience in the field telling you it can. It seems that in some areas, my area is psychology, in particular people do not respect the education and the statements made based on that education. I am not talking about respect for the individual as a person. And I am not speaking about supplying sources in a debate, I am speaking in general.
the guy with expertise in computers would go on to explain why their opponent is incorrect. (of coarse as typical with eggheads the retort would be chock full of left handed barbs, but still they would most likely explain why the best they can for the layman.) ...as opposed to simply "i'm an IT person and you dont know shit about computers". that would just be useless...especially since given the anonymity of the internet, they could simply be a side order chef at mcdonalds posing as an IT guy.
Originally posted by Regret
Alright. This is devolving into a personal discussion of respect for the person being discussed. I am referring to the guy with the computer science degree saying the computer can't do that, and the guy without a degree in computers and no experience in the field telling you it can. It seems that in some areas, my area is psychology, in particular people do not respect the education and the statements made based on that education. I am not talking about respect for the individual as a person. And I am not speaking about supplying sources in a debate, I am speaking in general.
So the basic idea is when I have a computer problem and I ask two people I don't know one has a computer degree, one doesn't?
Well, I guess in that case, I would probably take the recommendation of the person with the specific degree.
But I don't generally respect him just because he has a degree. If he turns out to be an idiot after the first few sentences I might reconsider. It just depends on the impression i get and the information I have.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So the basic idea is when I have a computer problem and I ask two people I don't know one has a computer degree, one doesn't?Well, I guess in that case, I would probably take the recommendation of the person with the specific degree.
But I don't generally respect him just because he has a degree. If he turns out to be an idiot after the first few sentences I might reconsider. It just depends on the impression i get and the information I have.
This is what I'm speaking about.
So, given this response, I would say you respect the degree unless it is shown to be worthless.
Would the same hold true of other fields? Or do some garner less respect as to their statements on their subjects?
Originally posted by Regret
This is what I'm speaking about.So, given this response, I would say you respect the degree unless it is shown to be worthless.
Would the same hold true of other fields? Or do some garner less respect as to their statements on their subjects?
Well, of course in that case where I have little information about one person and no information about the other. It's just probably not the amount of respect you expect.
The thing is if there is no further information available I will take a degree into account. Once that doesn't hold true anymore and I know more about the situation I will judge on much more important facts than a degree.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, of course in that case where I have little information about one person and no information about the other. It's just probably not the amount of respect you expect.The thing is if there is no further information available I will take a degree into account. Once that doesn't hold true anymore and I know more about the situation I will judge on much more important facts than a degree.
If you were hiring someone and two people were identical in experience etc. but one had the degree and the other did not, would it play a role in hiring if both would be paid the same?
Originally posted by Regret
If you were hiring someone and two people were identical in experience etc. but one had the degree and the other did not, would it play a role in hiring if both would be paid the same?
So, they are EXACTLY the same for all I know, just that one has a degree and the other doesn't? Well, yes, then the one with the degree.
Here a question for you:
Your computer is broken, and you hardly know anything about the maintenance.
You have the choice between a guy without a degree that you know is good with computers, he helped you before and it always worked well and a guy that has a degree in computer science that you don't know anything else about, which one would it be for you?
on KMC...a person who claims they have a degree in order to win a debate is really just the same as the people who claim silly IQ test results
particularly those 16 year old types who say "i got 220 on my IQ test" when they know and we know that they are talking through a hole in their ass
on a side note...a very wise man once said
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So, they are EXACTLY the same for all I know, just that one has a degree and the other doesn't? Well, yes, then the one with the degree.Here a question for you:
Your computer is broken, and you hardly know anything about the maintenance.
You have the choice between a guy without a degree that you know is good with computers, he helped you before and it always worked well and a guy that has a degree in computer science that you don't know anything else about, which one would it be for you?
The guy I know the work of 😉 I'm not arguing the experience means nothing argument, I don't believe that. But an education might mean more knowledge as to options.
Originally posted by RegretYeah, but that's all it is. It MIGHT mean more experience or knowledge. And as such it is a factor. But when I have the chance to find out for myself I don't care for the degree anymore, since I believe I can determine better who is skilled and knowledgeable.
The guy I know the work of 😉 I'm not arguing the experience means nothing argument, I don't believe that. But an education might mean more knowledge as to options.
And, as a spin off of the other thread, I think in a debate it should not matter at all, since a debate is just about determining what is true anyways. And the possibility of knowledge doesn't have anything to do with it.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but that's all it is. It MIGHT mean more experience or knowledge. And as such it is a factor. But when I have the chance to find out for myself I don't care for the degree anymore, since I believe I can determine better who is skilled and knowledgeable.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Bardock42
And, as a spin off of the other thread, I think in a debate it should not matter at all, since a debate is just about determining what is true anyways. And the possibility of knowledge doesn't have anything to do with it.
I think background should play a role in determining the credibility/validity of statements the other person makes. I want to laugh when someone tells me something that has been totally disproved, or someone that considers Freud or Frasier an adequate example of a psychologist today. IMO it is a waste of time debating with someone that does not have a background in a subject and is firm in their "opinion". They often make statements that are not remotely in line with the reality of the subject and then do not take it well when you try to politely tell them that this is so.
All the same, we can discuss this more through PM if you would like.
, or someone that considers Freud or Frasier an adequate example of a psychologist today.
i've always wondered about that too...i did a small bit of pyschology when i studied forensic psychobiology and one of the first things i noticed was that people who have no clue about psychology always cite freud but anyone with even a small amount of pyschology education thinks he was an idiot
Originally posted by jaden101
i've always wondered about that too...i did a small bit of pyschology when i studied forensic psychobiology and one of the first things i noticed was that people who have no clue about psychology always cite freud but anyone with even a small amount of pyschology education thinks he was an idiot
Yeah, it bugs me when people take him as an example of how we behave. He was a quack in my opinion, and a perverted sex fiend who probably molested his daughter (Anna, not the other one.) But that's my opinion, based on some research into Anna and Freud and their statements. Some psychologists respect him more than I do, but in my experience few of us really like the stereotype he gave the field.
Re: Does a degree only hold respect from others with degrees?
Originally posted by Regret
Does a degree only hold respect from others with degrees?It appears in my real world experience and on-line experience that uneducated individuals do not hold much regard for a college level education or the statements made by those with the education. This baffles me as I would not disregard my plumbers statements on my plumbing, his education in that area is much more valid than mine.
I am not saying that an education makes a person better in any way, but it does provide them with knowledge that is more thorough in regards to their given field of study.
Given this, am I correct in my observation, or am I only seeing the extreme examples? If you agree or disagree with this attitude, your thoughts would be appreciated.
You are making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who don\'t have similar levels of education as yourself. Obtaining a degree in a specific field, does not make every opinion you have in that field a correct one. And most educated individuals in any field will not respect an opinion if evidence is not found supporting it.
I do not automatically take what any individual says to me at face value, especially when attempting to make decisions about important life matters. In most cases, I will only make a decision after all evidence and opinions from various sources has been presented. Sometimes the best advice comes from the accredited professional, and sometimes it does not.
For the record, I am in the process of obtaining degrees in computer programming and information systems technology.
Re: Re: Does a degree only hold respect from others with degrees?
Originally posted by Mr Ed
You are making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who don\'t have similar levels of education as yourself.
I am making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who don\'t have similar levels of education as myself. This is the first step in the process of gaining an understanding of whether my assumption or hypothesis is correct. Once I have learned what I can here, I may, if it is of enough interest consider making a complete study into the subject. Only by asking the question is it possible to become educated in the subject.
Also, I work in I/O Psychology, I have experience with a large number of individuals and hiring of individuals for high level jobs. In my experience individuals that do not have a college level education tend towards this type of behavior. I believe it may be due to a blow to the self-esteem when passed over in favor of someone with an education.
Originally posted by Mr Ed
Obtaining a degree in a specific field, does not make every opinion you have in that field a correct one. And most educated individuals in any field will not respect an opinion if evidence is not found supporting it.
No, but this topic is addressing the perception of individuals as to the value of a degree, not whether the degree makes one infallible as to his specialization.
Originally posted by Mr Ed
I do not automatically take what any individual says to me at face value, especially when attempting to make decisions about important life matters. In most cases, I will only make a decision after all evidence and opinions from various sources has been presented. Sometimes the best advice comes from the accredited professional, and sometimes it does not.For the record, I am in the process of obtaining degrees in computer programming and information systems technology.
IMO CS is the area of study that has the most difficult time with this phenomena, those that work effectively and make a decent living without the degree have a low opinion of those that followed the educational approach . My minor was CS, and my major was initially CS. I have seen that these statements hold true in many situations between CS and non-CS personnel.