Originally posted by ESB -1138
How f*cking retarded are you!?[
I wouldn't be insulting my intelligence, pauper.
You said Maul was faster then Count Dooku. So the only way to determine speed would be to determine the speed of opponents (via: Maul and Dooku)
You replied to it on something that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. What you replied to was about Obi-Wan being faster than Qui-Gon, not about Maul versus Dooku in speed. If you wanted to reply to that you should quoted the correct rebuttal, you replied to something that had NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. MAUL. AND. DOOKU'S. SPEED.
And your rebuttal was illogical. Because Dooku uses Makashi, he's faster? Lol. It doesn't matter if he's the better duelist, he's not as fast, but his skill makes up for it.
Anyways, this is what you should've bolded/replied to, I'll show you since you are clearly incapable of doing such:
Originally posted by Advent
Excuse me while I just ROFL my waffle.ROFL.
Okay. Anyways, Maul > Dooku in speed. This is a given, you can argue it all you want, but you'd be completely wrong. Qui-Gon Jinn's age does play an effect in his speed, and this is made apparent in the novelization, so it's ridiculous to think Dooku's doesn't.
Maul's far faster than Dooku, don't even be ridiculous. He's described as "a warrior in his prime", referring to his physique, and physical abilities, and his speed is noted on several occasions.
^
What you should've quoted. Why? Because it was the point you were replying to. The point that you quoted had nothing to do with Maul and Dooku's speed, but only Obi-Wan's.
Thanks for proving you're a moron, who doesn't know that you confuse people by your ability to quote the wrong thing.
a.) Know what the f*ck you are b*tching about
b.) Get your f*cking head checked
c.) STFUI'd suggest all three, but it's up to you. I'm not going to hold your hand, just offer advice to the retarded
Oh, big words coming from such a small minded individual - you really do surprise me. I'm glad you can demonstrate the ability to copy and paste what I write, but add a few more things that make it seem like you're more of an idiot.
So, you can either:
a.) Learn how to quote, and reply properly - so as you don't reveal the fact you truly are a moron (it's impossible to avoid, but this might prolong it for a post or two).
b.) Get your spectacles examined, or at least, put them on. Obviously you cannot see what you're replying to.
c.) Go back to hell, I'm sure Satan would rather have you working as his personal sex puppet than pestering adults on the internet.
And a new addition...
d.) Get a lobotomy, because you're clearly delusional, and have a severe mental disorder.
So, as I said: I'd suggest all four, but it's up to you. I'm not going to hold your hand, just offer advice.
I am sorry, though, that you can't come up with such witty retorts like I can, and you're forced to copy and paste what I write.
Originally posted by Advent
I didn't see Obi-Wan charging at him like an idiot just because he killed Jedi, sentenced them to death, etc.
I can think of a number of reasons for this. Obi-Wan was the master thus needed to set the example, Obi-Wan didnt let his emotions control him like Anakin did, Obi-Wan knew how powerful Dooku was etc.
As well, can you explain why Anakin is reckless in the beginning of AOTC? And why he is described as reckless throughout the entire movie?
Because Anakin is a reckless, whiny piece of sh*t. 😛 . He thinks he is better than everyone and should progress faster than everyone. In some ways, in alot of ways, im ahead of him (referring to Kenobi).
You're an idiot. If you'd have actually read the TPM novel, and not copy and paste what I wrote in the other topic, you'd know what I was talking about. Learn the actual source material.
Heres a tip, why dont you stfu. I have the novel right in front of me as I type.
Obi-Wan did catch Maul off guard because he was in a rage initially. After that, Maul regained composure, and was attacking Obi-Wan, and Maul went for a sweeping movie apparently, and it was due to Obi-Wan's being faster than Qui-Gon (not because he was in a rage), he was able to anticipate Maul's moves. He was not in a "blind fury" when doing that, because:
Wtf are you talking about? I said that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage, which is completely correct. The novel backs me up. I never said that Qui-Gon was faster, and I never said that Maul didnt regain his composure. So stop putting words in my mouth. So yes, Maul did regain his compsure after being forced back because of Kenobis rage. At no point in the novel was Maul getting pushed back - other than when Kenobi was angered.
1.) When it describes Obi-Wan in a frenzy it says this "lost in a red haze of rage and frustration" and that his assault was "wild".
Yes, whats your point? I never said otherwise.
2.) It'd be seemingly impossible to predict beforehand one's moves when you are that pissed off, that is what anticipate means.
Again, I never said otherwise, and again you are trying to put words in my mouth. All I said was that because of Kenobis initial rage that Maul was forced back. I didnt say anything about anticipation.
The point is: Obi-Wan was quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to predict Maul's moves. Not because he was in a frenzy, but because he was faster than Jinn.
Read above two posts.
I meant to put "by this logic Mace > Yoda because he lasted longer in a saber duel against Sidious".
Does Mace last longer? I mean im not disputing your point but im pretty sure that the saber duel between Yoda and Sids was longer. I shall have to go and check. Because remeber, they were still duelling when it cut to anakin and Obi-Wan.
So, your logic and point collapses.
I beg to differ.
Either way, your point collapses.
I beg to differ.
Either way, your point collapses.
I beg to differ.
Originally posted by Deus Venèficus
Another one of the famous Motoko vs Rampant thread...*Announcer's voice*
Well folks the two contesters for today are the famous Motoko and none other than the infamous Rampant Oxxxx!!!!!!
So far Rampant as been true to his name, rampaging through the thread with wild and unsupported garbage. Motoko is quick to counter however with a powerful defence of durasteel strong logic, but is it enough to stem the tide against Rampant's doggedness? Only time will tell...
😆 😆 😆
Originally posted by Rampant ox
I can think of a number of reasons for this. Obi-Wan was the master thus needed to set the example, Obi-Wan didnt let his emotions control him like Anakin did, Obi-Wan knew how powerful Dooku was etc.Because Anakin is a reckless, whiny piece of sh*t. 😛 . He thinks he is better than everyone and should progress faster than everyone. In some ways, in alot of ways, im ahead of him (referring to Kenobi).
Hey, Rampant, you know what you're supposed to be arguing against? This is the original point:
Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that AOTC Anakin would win, as long as he doesnt lose his head.
Now, given we know he's reckless (you admitted it), headstrong by nature, what's to suggest he won't be against Maul? Answer: Nothing, ergo we can only assume he'll think he can take him, and be reckless in doing such - resulting in leaving himself open, and thus dying.
Heres a tip, why dont you stfu. I have the novel right in front of me as I type.
Then you'd know you were wrong. So, you might need to go back to Sear's Optical, and get a new pair of spectacles. Either that, or get a good pair of contacts:
^
For reference, if you decide to take my advice - which I strongly advise.
Wtf are you talking about? I said that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage, which is completely correct. The novel backs me up.
Yes, the novel "backs you up" on that. Which isn't the original point we're arguing. Good thing we have a collection of everything written on these forums, so you can't snake your way out of this, and make stuff up:
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.
You said that Obi-Wan was fast against Maul (and we were arguing about speed) because he lost control, you didn't say he "pushed him back because he lost emotions", or else I would've agreed with you. The entire time I was arguing about simply speed.
I never said that Qui-Gon was faster, and I never said that Maul didnt regain his composure. So stop putting words in my mouth. So yes, Maul did regain his compsure after being forced back because of Kenobis rage. At no point in the novel was Maul getting pushed back - other than when Kenobi was angered.
Hm, I'm glad you like to go into a complete different direction, so I'll show you what you did wrong, why you're confused, and I'm confused:
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.
Originally posted by Advent
It doesn't say he was fast against Maul because of that. It says he's quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to "anticipate each blow". I find it hard to believe he can anticipate (predict) Maul's attacks while being in a blaze of fury.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
No. " He struck at the Sith Lord with his lightsaber as if his own safety meant nothing, lost in a red haze of rage and frustration, consumed by his grief for Qui-Gon and his failure to prevent his friend's fall. The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault, " There it states that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. At no other point in the novel or script does it show Kenobi having the advantage - this is because at no other point was Kenobi in a rage.
Now, do you see how what you responded to made no sense? We were arguing about Obi-Wan's speed being able to keep up because he was in a rage, I proved you wrong, and why it was bullshit. You then replied with "No", in other words, you were disagreeing with me that Obi-Wan was able to predict his moves because of his speed, and not because of his rage.
So, do you see how you confused me? Turned this into a misunderstand, and so on?
Again, I never said otherwise, and again you are trying to put words in my mouth. All I said was that because of Kenobis initial rage that Maul was forced back. I didnt say anything about anticipation.
You said Obi-Wan was fast against Maul only because he was in a rage.
Does Mace last longer? I mean im not disputing your point but im pretty sure that the saber duel between Yoda and Sids was longer. I shall have to go and check.
Sidious and Yoda saber dueled for 40 seconds almost exact. After 40 seconds, Yoda is tossed down, and Sidious starts throwing pods, and so on. Yoda gets back up, and his lightsaber never meets Sidious' again. Mace and Sidious saber dueled for a minute.
Because remeber, they were still duelling when it cut to anakin and Obi-Wan.
No, they weren't. When the scene comes back to them, they are in the same positions. Watch the scene cut (i.e. with no other scenes), they are in exactly the same positions, and the scene flows perfectly.
I beg to differ x3.
Yeah, but you're a fanboy, so who cares? x3
I'd say Kenobi. In saber combat Anakin is stronger (Gillard says he's a 7 in saber combat while Kenobi's a 6 or 7) and is likely stronger with the Force, too. However, both are very close in those catagories and Kenobi is far more mature and has had far more training, even achieving the rank of Knight and managing to kill a Sith Lord by the end of the movie. So I go with kenobi in one of the closest duels of all time.
Originally posted by AdventNow, given we know he's reckless (you admitted it), headstrong by nature, what's to suggest he won't be against Maul?
He is not fighting Maul he is fighting Obi-Wan. They are two completely different fighters.
Answer: Nothing, ergo we can only assume he'll think he can take him, and be reckless in doing such - resulting in leaving himself open, and thus dying.
No I dont think that we can assume that, especially when he doesnt have a reason. Yes I said (and still say) that Anakin is a moaning, arrogan,t whiny pile of sh*t and we have seen him run recklessly into battle. But he had good reason in AOTC, and I listed this reasons in one of my previous posts. If you can show me a time when he will was foolishly reckless going into battle then my point will collapse. But until then you have nothing to back up what you say.
Then you'd know you were wrong.
Where was I wrong. You misenterpreting something I said doesnt make me wrong, quite the opposite actually. So why dont you take some of your own advice, get some glasses, and read my posts more carefully.
You said that Obi-Wan was fast against Maul (and we were arguing about speed) because he lost control, you didn't say he "pushed him back because he lost emotions", or else I would've agreed with you. The entire time I was arguing about simply speed.
I dont know what the hell you are talking about now. I said that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. You said you would have agreed with me if I had said pushed him back because he lost emotions". They are exactly the same thing. Rage is an emotion, and because of this emotion Obi-Wan was able to push Maul back. I hope that part of the debate has been cleared up now.
We were arguing about Obi-Wan's speed being able to keep up because he was in a rage, I proved you wrong, and why it was bullshit.
I didnt say that Obi-wan was able to keep up, I said that Obi-Wan was able to push Maul back. Two different things.
You then replied with "No", in other words, you were disagreeing with me that Obi-Wan was able to predict his moves because of his speed, and not because of his rage.
Again there has been a misunderstanding on both parts. Obi-Wan wasnt predicting Mauls moves because Obi-Wan was on the full blown offensive. He was attacking Maul, not keeping up, not blocking and certainly not anticapating. Just simply attacking, and because of this rage and the speed of his attacks he was abl to push back Maul.
You said Obi-Wan was fast against Maul only because he was in a rage.
Yes I did. Whats your point?
Rampant, you're hopeless.
He is not fighting Maul he is fighting Obi-Wan. They are two completely different fighters.
I meant to say "there is no reason he won't be against Obi-Wan". Anakin is always headstrong, foolhardy, and an idiot in AOTC. He's also very reckless, and wild on a lot of occasions. So, my question is, what makes this any different?
No I dont think that we can assume that, especially when he doesnt have a reason. Yes I said (and still say) that Anakin is a moaning, arrogan,t whiny pile of sh*t and we have seen him run recklessly into battle. But he had good reason in AOTC, and I listed this reasons in one of my previous posts. If you can show me a time when he will was foolishly reckless going into battle then my point will collapse. But until then you have nothing to back up what you say.
Explain then, if you will, why Anakin is considered reckless before he even confronts Dooku? Explain his little stunt in the beginning of AOTC? Explain why he thinks he can beat everyone?
As I said above, Anakin is naturally, and for the most part in AOTC - reckless, so what makes this situation any different?
Where was I wrong You misenterpreting something I said doesnt make me wrong, quite the opposite actually.
Oh, the opposite? How can that be when you yourself admitted in this very same post that there was a "misunderstanding on both parts"? How can I be wrong, if you misunderstood as well?
Answer: You can't, and it's not "quite the opposite". If you're going to attempt to sound smart, at least gather your thoughts correctly.
So why dont you take some of your own advice, get some glasses, and read my posts more carefully.
Read through your bullshit? I'd rather not. And my advice is saved for the delusional morons of these forums, which in actuality, is you and some other miscellaneous fanboys. So, do yourself a favor, kid, think first, post later.
I dont know what the hell you are talking about now. I said that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage.
Initially, that isn't what you were arguing. If you'd have got your spectacles examined, or got contacts (1800contacts.com) - you'd have seen it. However, for the sake of your sheer stupidity, see below for why you are so confused.
You said you would have agreed with me if I had said pushed him back because he lost emotions".
Yes, I did say that. However, you initially said that he was FAST against Maul ONLY BECAUSE he was in a rage. This was false, and/or you just don't own the actual material I was reading from (novelization).
They are exactly the same thing. Rage is an emotion, and because of this emotion Obi-Wan was able to push Maul back. I hope that part of the debate has been cleared up now.
You see, that isn't WHAT YOU INITIALLY SAID. I made it PERFECTLY CLEAR that I was arguing about SPEED ALONE.
Holy shit, you're dense.
Let me show you the entire point that we were arguing, and why you were wrong, instead of destroying your argument:
Advent: Obi-Wan's speed is what helped him against Maul
This first statement is key. I was saying you'd have to prove Anakin is faster, because you made the assertion first. I then added that Obi-Wan's speed helped him against Maul.
Rampant Ox: Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.
Your rebuttal: He was only fast because he was in a rage.
Your rebuttal was basically implying heavily that he wouldn't be as fast if he weren't in a rage (given by the fact you also said "We dont have evidence to prove their duelling speed in a level headed duel.)
Advent: It doesn't say he was fast against Maul because of that. It says he's quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to "anticipate each blow". I find it hard to believe he can anticipate (predict) Maul's attacks while being in a blaze of fury.
My reply: No, he wasn't fast just because he was in a rage, he was fast because he was fast. Simple. The omniscient narrator says that "He was quicker than Qui-Gon", ergo he was able to predict (anticipate) Maul's moves. He wasn't even in a rage at that point, as it'd be seemingly impossible to anticipate moves anyways.
The narration proved that he wasn't fast just because he was in a rage. Hell, it was even past that point.
Now, here's where you f*cked up, and didn't make any sense:
Rampant Ox: "No. " He struck at the Sith Lord with his lightsaber as if his own safety meant nothing, lost in a red haze of rage and frustration, consumed by his grief for Qui-Gon and his failure to prevent his friend's fall. The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault, " There it states that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. At no other point in the novel or script does it show Kenobi having the advantage - this is because at no other point was Kenobi in a rage."
The initial "no" was you basically disagreeing with the fact that Obi-Wan anticipated Maul's moves because he was fast, and not because he was in a rage.
I explained this clearly that I wasn't talking about Obi-Wan pushing Maul back, and surprising him. I made it clear that I was talking about the initial point, but somehow - as you usually do - you managed to twist up shit, and confuse everybody.
Now, if you want to "reply" to this, in which I'm sure you will because you're an idiot, feel free - I'm not going to argue it anymore.
Again there has been a misunderstanding on both parts. Obi-Wan wasnt predicting Mauls moves because Obi-Wan was on the full blown offensive. He was attacking Maul, not keeping up, not blocking and certainly not anticapating. Just simply attacking, and because of this rage and the speed of his attacks he was abl to push back Maul.
Rampant, do you understand anything? Seriously?
I said Obi-Wan's speed helped him against Maul, you said "n0 h3 was 1n a r4ge!!!!!!!!!//?!ONE!!". I quoted the TPM novel, and it said exactly this:
"...lunging and twisting, Darth Maul regained the offensive and counterattacked, using both ends of his lightsaber in an effort to cut Obi-Wan's legs out from under him. But Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down. "
If you actually owned the TPM novel (which I don't believe you do, I think you just copied and pasted what I wrote from the other topic), you'd have know what I was talking about.
Do you see that I was saying his speed helped him, I didn't give a specific point in time. I just said it helped him, you said it was only because he was in a rage. I just proved to you that he wasn't even on the offensive, and I wasn't talking about his initial flurry, you assumed I was, that is where it went wrong. Because you assumed something wrong.
Yes I did. Whats your point?
Holy f*cking shit! You are too dumb. That is what I was ARGUING THE ENTIRE TIME. He was NOT FAST JUST BECAUSE HE WAS MAD, he was fast, because he was fast. He wasn't even in as much of a rage at that point, plus he was "anticipating Maul's moves".
Originally posted by Advent
I meant to say "there is no reason he won't be against Obi-Wan". Anakin is always headstrong, foolhardy, and an idiot in AOTC. He's also very reckless, and wild on a lot of occasions. So, my question is, what makes this any different?
What reason at all does Anakin have to think he is better than TPM Oni-Wan, to get angry or to rush in foolishly? The answer is none. Yes he is known to, but he usually had good reason. He was reckless in the beginning of AOTC because he was about to catch the person who was tring to kill Padme, his soon to be girlfriend. He was reckless at the end of AOTC because he wanted to kill the person who has potentially killed Padme, his now girlfriend.
Explain then, if you will, why Anakin is considered reckless before he even confronts Dooku? Explain his little stunt in the beginning of AOTC? Explain why he thinks he can beat everyone?
See above.
As I said above, Anakin is naturally, and for the most part in AOTC - reckless, so what makes this situation any different?
Oh, the opposite? How can that be when you yourself admitted in this very same post that there was a "misunderstanding on both parts"? How can I be wrong, if you misunderstood as well?
I said there was a misunderstanding on a different point.
Answer: You can't, and it's not "quite the opposite". If you're going to attempt to sound smart, at least gather your thoughts correctly.
Answer: Read things in context.
Read through your bullshit? I'd rather not. And my advice is saved for the delusional morons of these forums, which in actuality, is you and some other miscellaneous fanboys. So, do yourself a favor, kid, think first, post later.
Bullshit? Hardly. And if you arent going to read through my posts then why dont you piss off. You cant argue if you dont take into account what the opponent has to say. I think Anakin would win and you think otherwise. Your word is not law and you saying that Obi would win doesnt make it so, so stop treating it as such.
Im sorry but I got lost in that sea of crap you posted. Ill state what I said for the last time. Maul had the advantage and was on the offencive the whole duel. Then he pisses Obi-Wan off and gets pushed back. At no other point in the duel does Maul get pushed back. This is becase once Kenobi lost control of his emotions he overwhelmed Maul and caught him off guard. No, Kenobi wasnt 'anticipating' Mauls moves at that point - but there was no need to. He was on a full blown offencive and Maul was forced to defend, not attack.
Holy f*cking shit! You are too dumb. That is what I was ARGUING THE ENTIRE TIME. He was NOT FAST JUST BECAUSE HE WAS MAD, he was fast, because he was fast. He wasn't even in as much of a rage at that point, plus he was "anticipating Maul's moves".
Lets put into simple terms. The whole duel Maul had Kenobi outclassed. In terms of speed power and skill Maul always had the advantage. Then he pisses Kenobi off and gets overwhelmed and forced backwards. OMG!! Could this be because Kenobi speeds up when he was in the rage?
Originally posted by kamikzObi-Wan at that point was just like any other Padawan: pretentious and stupid. [/anti-Jedi]
I'm always enraged over how Obi-Wan does a flip OVER Maul, when Maul is lying defenceless on the ground. So stupid....
Originally posted by darthsith19Wait, Nick Gillard is a perfectly decent source?
I'd say Kenobi. In saber combat Anakin is stronger (Gillard says he's a 7 in saber combat while Kenobi's a 6 or 7) and is likely stronger with the Force, too. However, both are very close in those catagories and Kenobi is far more mature and has had far more training, even achieving the rank of Knight and managing to kill a Sith Lord by the end of the movie. So I go with kenobi in one of the closest duels of all time.