TPM Obi-Wan Vs AOTC Anakin

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Yep, I agree. AOTC Anakin wasn't showing anything impressive against Dooku. He was using long elegant attacks, which is why Dooku tools him. Anakin gets overconfident, angry, and doesn't think what he is doing.

TPM Obi-Wan gave Maul a bit of a surprise. Even when the Sith Lord regained composure, Obi-Wan still broke Maul's blade. Maul isn't a careless nor a toying person, so Obi-Wan was really putting quite a fight.

Obi-Wan takes this. It's a pity he didn't continue Ataru, otherwise he would have been really good as a Master.

If he continued Ataru his fights would be cooler, but then Grievous would WTF PWN him, and he would not survive Order 66

If he continued Ataru his fights would be cooler, but then Grievous would WTF PWN him, and he would not survive Order 66

How does he get wtf pawned? As a master, he’ll probably be in Mace’s league if he can fight like that (plus he’ll be better).

The Jedi won’t send him to confront Grievous, they’ll probably send Master Luminara Unduli instead, as she uses Soresu.

Ataru is too offensive, not good for blocking Blasters and several Oppenents, Grievous destroys people that attack him.

Whoever that Jedi is, she is not near as powerful as Obi-Wan, and I doubt as skilled with a Lightsaber

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
It's a pity he didn't continue Ataru, otherwise he would have been really good as a Master.

Obi-Wan was very, very good as a Jedi Master. Simply excellent really. He's probably the fourth best duelist in the Order. If he had used Ataru, he would have not only lost to Anakin, but lost to Grievous, and I doubt he would be as good.

Soresu + Obi-Wan = Great.

Obi-Wan was very, very good as a Jedi Master. Simply excellent really. He's probably the fourth best duelist in the Order. If he had used Ataru, he would have not only lost to Anakin, but lost to Grievous, and I doubt he would be as good.

Why wouldn't he become good? Already as Padawan, he was that skilled. As a master, he would probably be as good as Anakin. In AOTC, he was back to square one except with Soresu.

Whoever that Jedi is, she is not near as powerful as Obi-Wan, and I doubt as skilled with a Lightsaber

Luminara is a pretty skilled Jedi. She trained Bariss Offee and she makes an appearence in Clone Wars 1. Since they're both Soresu users, and can work together, I say they can take down Grievous.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Luminara is a pretty skilled Jedi. She trained Bariss Offee and she makes an appearence in Clone Wars 1. Since they're both Soresu users, and can work together, I say they can take down Grievous.

......Not a clue who that is, either way, these Nobody Jedi all got owned by Grievous, Soeresu isn't invincibility for everyone

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Why wouldn't he become good?

He wouldn't become as good.

Already as Padawan, he was that skilled.

No. As an enraged padawan, tapping into his darkside emotions, he was good. As we see later, Obi-Wan doesn't rely on his emotions to fuel him. Emotions make anyone a better duelist, but as we know - the usual emotions used to do that (anger, hate, rage) lead to the Darkside.

During the beginning of their duel, Obi-Wan was being tossed around like a ragdoll with ease.

As a master, he would probably be as good as Anakin.

No, Anakin would've killed him had Obi-Wan not mastered Soresu. Ataru is offensive, and so is Djem So. It was only Obi-Wan's defensive skills that saved him against Grievous, as Mace does say "the simplicity of your form will stop Grievous" or something along those lines.

Against Anakin? Lmfao. Say goodbye to Obi-Wan. He mastered Soresu to the highest degree, if he had done the same with Ataru - you'd have to prove that Obi-Wan with Ataru is better than Obi-Wan with Soresu. Which you can't. And we know that Obi-Wan's Soresu allowed him to defeat Grievous, and hold off Anakin. So, I'm going to say his Soresu > Ataru.

And where's proof he would be as good as Anakin? He masters the form, he masters the form. It is stated that Obi-Wan's defensive is key against Anakin as well (ROTS novel, IIRC). Ataru is not offensive, so I doubt he would even be near Anakin's level. Dueling ability IS dueling ability. Anakin IS the better duelist, Ataru would not change that, no matter how many years he had to practice.

In AOTC, he was back to square one except with Soresu.

You are aware he switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died, right? Because he wanted to protect - as he felt that was the reason Qui-Gon died. Meaning he had 10 years (32 BBY to 22 BBY) experience with Soresu in AOTC, unless you're trying to claim he started Soresu in AOTC, and mastered the form in three years. Which is definitely not the case.

Originally posted by Advent
You are aware he switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died, right? Because he wanted to protect - as he felt that was the reason Qui-Gon died. Meaning he had [b]10 years (32 BBY to 22 BBY) experience with Soresu in AOTC, unless you're trying to claim he started Soresu in AOTC, and mastered the form in three years. Which is definitely not the case. [/B]

Didn't Anakin start learning Shien/Djem So shortly before or after AOTC? And then he becomes a Master of it in 4 Years?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Didn't Anakin start learning Shien/Djem So shortly before or after AOTC? And then he becomes a Master of it in 4 Years?

I'm not sure about the exact time, but he did use Ataru as a padawan; although that was before AOTC. What does that have to do with anything...?

You made the point that it was unlikely for Obi-Wan to master Soresu in only 3-4 Years, while Anakin did that in roughly the same time with Shien/Djem So, or did I misread that?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You made the point that it was unlikely for Obi-Wan to master Soresu in only 3-4 Years, while Anakin did that in roughly the same time with Shien/Djem So, or did I misread that?

You misread it apparently. I said that it "is not the case" because that's not what happened. It is stated in one of the novels (I'm fairly certain it's AOTC) that Obi-Wan switched to Soresu soon after Qui-Gon's death. The reason was because he felt Qui-Gon's death was his fault, as he thought he could not protect him, thus he switched to Soresu to protect.

So, basically, that's the point. Obi-Wan switched after Qui-Gon's death, he did not just pick up Soresu in the beginning of AOTC.

No. As an enraged padawan, tapping into his darkside emotions, he was good. As we see later, Obi-Wan doesn't rely on his emotions to fuel him. Emotions make anyone a better duelist, but as we know - the usual emotions used to do that (anger, hate, rage) lead to the Darkside.

Since emotions fuel your power higher than normal, by AOTC (10 years) Obi-Wan would have easily reached his angry form in TPM, probably being even greater. With experience from the Clone Wars, he would have become even stronger in ROTS. By Gillard's standards, I would call him an 8.5 or a 9.

You are aware he switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died, right? Because he wanted to protect - as he felt that was the reason Qui-Gon died. Meaning he had 10 years (32 BBY to 22 BBY) experience with Soresu in AOTC, unless you're trying to claim he started Soresu in AOTC, and mastered the form in three years. Which is definitely not the case.

What are you talking about? Duh, of course I know that! As a padawan, Obi-Wan learned Ataru to his current level in TPM. But then he starts over and in 10 years learns Soresu. So basically, he's back to square one in level, except with Soresu.

No, Anakin would've killed him had Obi-Wan not mastered Soresu. Ataru is offensive, and so is Djem So. It was only Obi-Wan's defensive skills that saved him against Grievous, as Mace does say "the simplicity of your form will stop Grievous" or something along those lines.

That’s why I said that the Jedi Council won’t send him to fight Grievous. They’ll probably send the other Soresu users: Bariss Offee and Master Luminara Unduli.

Against Anakin? Lmfao. Say goodbye to Obi-Wan. He mastered Soresu to the highest degree, if he had done the same with Ataru - you'd have to prove that Obi-Wan with Ataru is better than Obi-Wan with Soresu. Which you can't. And we know that Obi-Wan's Soresu allowed him to defeat Grievous, and hold off Anakin. So, I'm going to say his Soresu > Ataru.

You're right, I can't prove it. But seeing his emotion form in TPM, I can conclude that he'll probably reach that by AOTC as Obi-Wan has a good learning curve.

And where's proof he would be as good as Anakin? He masters the form, he masters the form. It is stated that Obi-Wan's defensive is key against Anakin as well (ROTS novel, IIRC). Ataru is not offensive, so I doubt he would even be near Anakin's level. Dueling ability IS dueling ability. Anakin IS the better duelist, Ataru would not change that, no matter how many years he had to practice.

How is Ataru not offensive??? It's called the Aggresion Form. Dueling ability is not dueling ability if you're using two wholly different forms. If Obi-Wan used Ataru they probably wouldn't have reached the command room in Mustafar as Obi-Wan will be using Ataru acrobats to keep attacking Anakin, instead of moving back with Soresu.

He wouldn't become as good.

Why wouldn't he???

And this is getting off-topic. The point is TPM Obi-Wan > Anakin, period.