Super-Man VS Nate Grey

Then, there is the subject of speedblitzing.

If Superman can be hurt at all, speedblitzing would kill him.

His own strength and mass and speed would work against him.

Like somebody being thrown into the ocean at super-speed. The ocean turns to concrete upon impact.

Let's say Supes is "almost" unbreakable.
If Supes hit a solid opponent at one of these super-speeds, he would burst or break on impact. It would be like having another Superman hit him with another "almost" unbreakable object at faster than light speed, with super strength. It would basically make his opponent infinitely dense.

Get it?

Unless he has some kind of force field like Juggernaut, or a power that has not been mentioned yet, every time he speedblitzed would turn him to jello.

And yet he speedblitzes successfully all the time in comics. Flawed logic there.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Superman thinking at light speed is such BS, even Flash doesn’t think that fast unless he uses the Speed Force which allows him to break the laws of psychics. Superman may think faster because he is not human. Nate being a mutant is still human and has never shown any ability to think at light speed.

Yeah, it would have to be proven that Superman's has something in his head that is NOT a brain, or has properties foriegn to "Brains" as we know them.

The brain communicates through electric impulses. Somebody would have to show that his brain uses some kind of energy that is faster than that. Maybe Tachyons or something. (theoretical particles that move faster than light)

His physiology is in no way, shape, or form associated with human anatomy. He isn't human. He thinks and reacts faster than light. You also have to remember that these are comics. Take your real world physics outta here.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Then, there is the subject of speedblitzing.

If Superman can be hurt at all, speedblitzing would kill him.

His own strength and mass and speed would work against him.

Like somebody being thrown into the ocean at super-speed. The ocean turns to concrete upon impact.

Let's say Supes is "almost" unbreakable.
If Supes hit a solid opponent at one of these super-speeds, he would burst or break on impact. It would be like having another Superman hit him with another "almost" unbreakable object at faster than light speed, with super strength. It would basically make his opponent infinitely dense.

Get it?

Unless he has some kind of force field like Juggernaut, or a power that has not been mentioned yet, every time he speedblitzed would turn him to jello.

Originally posted by batdude123
His physiology is in no way, shape, or form associated with human anatomy. He isn't human. He thinks and reacts faster than light. You also have to remember that these are comics. Take your real world physics outta here.

As for Nate not being human you are wrong, he still is. He is a mutant that has some great powers over and above most anyone but he is still human. His mutation is part of the X-gene and he hasn’t mutated to something completely different. Even the likes of Beast and Darwin that have changed almost completely are still human.

Originally posted by breeze85
Are you kidding me? Most laws of physics DON'T REALLY apply for comics. This one definitely don't as it has been proven by quite a few characters by being able to manouver and perfectly coordinate in such speeds. Even if their brains were working just for 1/2 or even 99/100 of the speed of light they would be HORRIBLY misplaced every time.

The only possible 'skill' is that their brains operate as fast or faster than they can move. That means this law doesn't really apply at all.

Yes this is a fantasy world and they get to play with them all the time like anyone traveling at the speed of light is BS, but what we are debating comes down to the minute detail about their powers which they have never gotten into so it must be explain or rationalized unless they have stated otherwise in the comic.

Originally posted by ThePittman
They apply to a basic degree as I said in my above post, if it didn’t then why did they explain that Flash uses the Speed Force to protect him self against the laws of physics when traveling at light speed. He also uses his Infinite Mass Punch, another lay of physics, there are so many powers that they have based on the laws of physics that they do come into play.

Yes this is a fantasy world and they get to play with them all the time like anyone traveling at the speed of light is BS, but what we are debating comes down to the minute detail about their powers which they have never gotten into so it must be explain or rationalized unless they have stated otherwise in the comic.

I mostly agree with you here. However, most of the speedsters physiologies work at the speed of light (Superman prime example). I don't see why their brains don't then? Most laws of the physics don't apply him at all, I don't see why this would:

Originally posted by ThePittman
For this to be true every speedster would have to alter the brain chemistry and the resistance the brain gives to electro chemical impulses to transmit the data in the brain. So anyone moving faster then 30 m/s would have to do this, to give you some simple examples of speed and how slow the speed of thought really is. A bullet can travel around 180 - 1220 m/s and the speed of sound is 340.29 m/s.

The problem is that for anyone to process data at the speed of light has to be able to alter the laws of physics, electromagnetism can only travel at the speed of light in the presence of a vacuum and since none of these characters heads are vacuums then they can not think that fast unless they alter the laws of psychics.

Good arguments all around. The thing is,while superman is faster than the speed of thought( superman:red son,issue#3) if thats why you give him the KO, i think your really giving him alot of credit where its not neccesarily due. Superman 2 biggest liabilities are1) his heart and 2) the fact that he doesnt fight tactically. If he showed up, rushed him and threw him into the sun in .2 seconds, well then yeah, id say that counts as a win. If he tried anything else...sorry Kal, your now the last drooling mindwipe victim of krypton.

Well with the speedsters their body is moving fast as well as their reaction time which would allow them to react faster then anyone else meaning the time that it takes the brain to get the impulse and then send it to the muscles is increased and their decision making is faster but not even to the point of light speed. As for Superman I’ve never said that he couldn’t but that it has never been shown and unless it is shown or proven he doesn’t. I have stated earlier in this thread that it is possible since he get his strength from the sun that this could also increases his brain as well since he is not human, however Nate is. His mind is advanced enough that he can process information faster but that doesn’t mean that he can transmit the data any faster just react to it quicker as well as using his other powers to be aware of his surroundings.

It's his brain that makes the decisions of when he should turn, slow down etc. When he is moving at the speed of light or even considerably exceeding it he still always ends up at the right places, doesn't hit anything on the way and so on. I can't think of anything else but that his brain equals to his movement speed. His complete physiology is that fast.

Kal-El can fight with lots of tactics if he wants to, but he is just not written like that in every fight because then he wouldn't have any challengers...not that he has many when he's being dumb. However he's shown impressive control over his powers and can blend them to perform effective offensive/defenseive strats.

Originally posted by HarmoNiC FLo
The two piss each other off and go in an all out fight. Both at full strength. Who wins?

Given this scenario where Nate knows he's in a fight with Superman. & Superman with no IG. Superman Dies.

Role reversall? maybe. if they had an argument on the surface of the sun, maybe. if Nate was high on crack as they argued. maybe

Originally posted by breeze85
It's his brain that makes the decisions of when he should turn, slow down etc. When he is moving at the speed of light or even considerably exceeding it he still always ends up at the right places, doesn't hit anything on the way and so on. I can't think of anything else but that his brain equals to his movement speed. His complete physiology is that fast.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Kal-El can fight with lots of tactics if he wants to, but he is just not written like that in every fight because then he wouldn't have any challengers...not that he has many when he's being dumb. However he's shown impressive control over his powers and can blend them to perform effective offensive/defenseive strats.

If Superman could think at those speed as I said before then nothing could touch him. I know that he doesn’t need to use it all the time, that would make a boring read but why hasn’t he used this ability when it really matters in such fights with Doomsday or other big and bad villains when lives are on the line or the universe is at stake. In many fights he says that he is not holding back which would mean that he is using everything at his disposal but not this?

Originally posted by ThePittman
OK, here are some examples of what I’m talking about. There is a beetle, I can’t remember the name, but it literally moves so fast that it’s brain can not process the visual information fast enough so when it is running it is blind and the world is a blur but it doesn’t run into anything either. It stops for a shot time then moves again in the direction that it wants to go, now at the speed of light travel he could stop and adjust his direction and at that speed no one would be able to see him.

That's so far-fetched it makes me puke. You are, of course, free to have your opinion though. If Superman did that (or any other character) I'm pretty sure it would have been stated on panel. Maybe showed how he stops to 'think' for a while. Personally I think he can certainly think as fast or faster than he is able to move until I see a proof he can not. The maximum speed of electromagnetism isn't a proof. Physics don't really apply when the guy can fly multiple times the speed of light.

Originally posted by ThePittman
If Superman could think at those speed as I said before then nothing could touch him. I know that he doesn’t need to use it all the time, that would make a boring read but why hasn’t he used this ability when it really matters in such fights with Doomsday or other big and bad villains when lives are on the line or the universe is at stake. In many fights he says that he is not holding back which would mean that he is using everything at his disposal but not this?

Bad argument, you don't often see heroes (or villains for that matter) using their full power, speed etc. in comics, do you? So why is that then. I'll explain. Because it would be unbelieveably boring for the readers if a guy knocked the other one out in an instant. Fights would be so one-sided it's not fun at all. Yet it's not really Superman's style. Here it's not an issue as I have said a million times on this forum. As the rules state everyone is fighting to the best of their ability. No holding back. For Superman it would mean a repeated usage of his super speed. Taking out most of the villains in an instant. In comics he seems to be always holding back, always.

Why didn't he use the speed against Doomsday then. Well, in fact he did in DOS. They were fighting super speed, definitely not even close to the speed of light but fast. Doomsday is a fella who can keep up with Superman's speed.