Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by Sin I AM
co-sign..........Telepaths would "never" lose if thought equaled actrion, unless in extreme cases where it was a high-end tp battling a weak individual or taking over some1 who was completely unaware of an impending assault........
In the X-Mens case everyone seems to have those things called telepathic blockers ie Stryker, O.N.E, S.W.O.R.D, S.H.I.E.L.D. Some have a high degree of telepathy themselves ie Selene, Nova, Exodus, Mr Sinister, Apocalypse, helmets and skull caps that protect them ie Juggs, Magneto and some just have technology that makes them immune ie Apocalypse and War. Or the X-Men fight some alien/machine cyborg thing which doesn't have a brain. I almost forgot the mutant dampener devices.
As for the earlier fights when Emma wasn't Headmistress, Xavier and Jean were bound to their code of ethics. Now with Emma as headmistress she rarely ever gets a chance to fight, or when she does she usually fights people with TP blockers or bad guys who are immune to it ie Danger. Once these blockers are removed she immediately capitalizes on this opportunity with her telepathy.
The X-good guys just seem to get owned by telepathy. Beast, Cyke, Wolverine, Jean and Xavier by Nova. Rogue and Jean by Exodus. Wolvey, Colossus and Storm by Evil Emma. Rachel by Vulcan. Emma by Kid Omega and Dark Phoenix.
And finally the most important point of them all, comics would really suck if telepaths knocked out their opponents immediately that's why they is enough PIS and CIS to ensure telepaths do something stupid.
Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Which attack works the fastest?
Shutting down someones brain via Telepathy or Summoning a Bolt of lightning via Psionic Manipulation.
I have found make that 3 people(All Storm fans) on these boards that say telepathy does not work at the speed of thought.
Discuss.
H'mm. Both a telepathic attack and a psionic lightning attack are initiated by thoughts in the attacker's brain. And the "speed of thought," in this regard, is what? 3 feet/sec in unmylineated neurons? 300 feet/sec in mylineated neurons (about Mach 0.3)? Not mind-boggling fast. Assuming no "accelerated" electrochemical impulses (ala Flash-style) for one party over the other, we are still on equal ground.
Now lightning is fast: it travels at about half lightspeed. Telepathy, on the other hand, has never even been proven to be a real phenomenon, though studies going as far back as the 1920s at Duke University suggest that "psychic" abilities function independent of distance and barriers. The only thing we know of for sure which seems to function that way is quantum phenomena (eg, tunneling, entanglement), which, in effect, appear "faster-than-light."
At this point, telepathy would seem to be the faster attack. But there is more...
1. How quickly can psionic manipulation summon/generate lightning?
2. How quickly can the telepath's intent effect the target brain?
Both of these factors would appear to be writer-dependent, and thus the only way to come to a conclusion is to compile in-panel feats of both.
Just my 2-cents worth.
Damn...sorry about the double post my 15 minutes were up...
As for the resistance to telepathy thing. Characters who have shown resistance to telepathy usually only fight off certain attacks. ie Rogue, Wolverine and Storm. These usually include probing, mind control and recently a behaviour configuration thing.
However when it comes to other telepathic attacks all 3 of those characters have been subdued. ie Brain Shutdown, Psi-Blast, Psi-Force Bolt.
And then you have Nova who just happens to own everyone with her telepathy.
Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by Mindship
H'mm. Both a telepathic attack and a psionic lightning attack are initiated by thoughts in the attacker's brain. And the "speed of thought," in this regard, is what? 3 feet/sec in unmylineated neurons? 300 feet/sec in mylineated neurons (about Mach 0.3)? Not mind-boggling fast. Assuming no "accelerated" electrochemical impulses (ala Flash-style) for one party over the other, we are still on equal ground.Now lightning is fast: it travels at about half lightspeed. Telepathy, on the other hand, has never even been proven to be a real phenomenon, though studies going as far back as the 1920s at Duke University suggest that "psychic" abilities function independent of distance and barriers. The only thing we know of for sure which seems to function that way is quantum phenomena (eg, tunneling, entanglement), which, in effect, appear "faster-than-light."
At this point, telepathy would seem to be the faster attack. But there is more...
1. How quickly can psionic manipulation summon/generate lightning?
2. How quickly can the telepath's intent effect the target brain?
Both of these factors would appear to be writer-dependent, and thus the only way to come to a conclusion is to compile in-panel feats of both.Just my 2-cents worth.
You mean like this:
Storm
This is her summoning winds.
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=airpressurea2cr.jpg
Lightning
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=06744__hr_Page_20_545lo.jpg
http://img125.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=07019__hr_Page_21_307lo.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormvshumantorch8yw.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xtremexmen22p20hgwellsyd0.jpg
http://img432.imageshack.us/my.php?image=molecularclothing9rg.jpg
Esme
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newxmen14121bx8.jpg
Emma
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2473/telepathy5ot.jpg
http://img319.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newxmen11811nn1.jpg
http://img158.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=05156_Uncanny_X_Men_129_16_303lo.jpg
http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xtremexmen22p17hgwellsod3.jpg
http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=05296_Uncanny_X_Men_1980_03_131_07_438lo.jpg
http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=05601_Uncanny_X_Men_1980_03_131_10_428lo.jpg
These four go together:
Nova
These two go together:
http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lastscanva7.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cnhc7.jpg
These three go together:
I need more Storm, I'll be back.
I hope this doesn't get me in trouble for posting a link to another site but ...
Storm RESPECT thread
http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112411
If this is a problem, please delete. 😄
IIRC, you can also find a thread for Namor and Magneto
ExodusCloak
Nice scans.
I did not analyze each one in depth, so I may've missed something. But from the looks of it, generally, a telepathic attack seems to be just a bit faster. I mean, Storm summoning wind or lightning seems to occur in the time it takes for her to monologue/dialogue with another character. With a telepathic attack, though, sometimes it seems as if the attack has already occurred, and the character talking is after the fact. Frankly, that sequence of events does make more sense to me.
Originally posted by HandOfFate
I hope this doesn't get me in trouble for posting a link to another site but ...Storm RESPECT thread
http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112411If this is a problem, please delete. 😄
IIRC, you can also find a thread for Namor and Magneto
You should consider making a Storm respect thread for KMC, god knows more females need them.(I got a few good scans regarding Storm) if you start one I'll post them, but it all depends on imageshack. Imagevenue doesn't permanently keep the scans up) I'm getting ready to start an Emma one. I just need to get a better internet connection.
BTW Thanks for posting the link.
Originally posted by Mindship
[B]ExodusCloak
Nice scans.
I did not analyze each one in depth, so I may've missed something. But from the looks of it, generally, a telepathic attack seems to be just a bit faster. I mean, Storm summoning wind or lightning seems to occur in the time it takes for her to monologue/dialogue with another character. With a telepathic attack, though, sometimes it seems as if the attack has already occurred, and the character talking is after the fact. Frankly, that sequence of events does make more sense to me. [/B]
No problem and thanks for the input.
Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I have found make that 3 people(All Storm fans) on these boards that say telepathy does not work at the speed of thought.
i think your getting confused. about what some of us are saying. tyhis is what i meant if your refering to me.
1)telepathy works at the speed of thought- yes...we agree on that
2)shutting down someones mind however does not occur at the speed of thought.
see the difference between what i'm saying?
Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by stormfront13
i think your getting confused. about what some of us are saying. tyhis is what i meant if your refering to me.1)telepathy works at the speed of thought- yes...we agree on that
2)shutting down someones mind however does not occur at the speed of thought.
see the difference between what i'm saying?
You said a telepathic attack does not connect at the speed of thought right?
Shutting someones mind is just a brain command that targets subconscious reflexes.
See the scans and then give me an honest opinion.
Particularly this one.
http://img155.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=22916_House_of_M_05_page_11_434lo.jpg
Here's another one, not as good as the first but good nonetheless.
http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverineorigins55up0.jpg
Re: Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
See the scans and then give me an honest opinion.
i've seen the scans and my opinion still stands
You said a telepathic attack does not connect at the speed of thought right?
no...i said it connects at the speed of thought, but the action of shutting down someones vrain does not occur at the speed of thought
Particularly this one.
that scan doesn't prove much. there is nothing involving someone having their mind shut down. emma is just telepathically commanding somsone to do something who happens to have no psionic protection at all, which is about right
Here's another one, not as good as the first but good nonetheless.
once again. nothing involving any shutting down of the brain. just communicating telepathically, which is no big deal whatsoever. btw what comic is that scan from.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by stormfront13
i've seen the scans and my opinion still stands
no...i said it connects at the speed of thought, but the action of shutting down someones vrain does not occur at the speed of thought
Hmm...I think I'm seeing what you're saying kind of, if the command connects at the speed of thought like we agree then it'll take another subconcious automated thought from the opponent to switch off.
Meaning the telepath thinks, and the opponent takes another subconcious automated thought to switch off. If the command was to however numb the entire brain, meaning the pulses in the brain are stopped then it should be instant.
Fair enough...I think I can agree with that.
that scan doesn't prove much. there is nothing involving someone having their mind shut down. emma is just telepathically commanding somsone to do something who happens to have no psionic protection at all, which is about right.once again. nothing involving any shutting down of the brain. just communicating telepathically, which is no big deal whatsoever. btw what comic is that scan from.
They were to show that telepathic commands connect at the speed of thought.
Wolverine Origins #5.
Re: Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Thanks for the input. However those 3 people are saying that telepathy has never shown to act at the speed of thought in the comics. They say it takes longer to shut off someones brain.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Telepathy vs Psionic Manipulation
Originally posted by montrail
For these "3" people I hope it isn't me because I know for a fact that telepthy moves at the speed of though....so does psionic manipulation.
Not you montrail, I haven't seen you in days. 😉
Anyway I misunderstood their interpretation. I thought they meant that telepathic attacks don't connect at the speed of thought. But they are right in way when they say another subconcious thought from the enemy is required to pull off a mind shut down. However if a telepath decided to numb the entire brain so no pulses flow, then the shut down should be instant.
Originally posted by What If...
I don't really see why you keep bringing this up.Threads with telepaths will always be " *charcter* instantly shuts down their mind"
Then a meaningless debate of who strikes faster will emerge, when there is really no clear answer.
That's why Mindship suggested the on panel evidence idea.
One character has to manipulate weather patterns via thought in order to generate an attack. The other has to think and wait for the effect to take place depending on their attack.
