Originally posted by Syren
I'm just glad they stopped it, a few of my family were due to fly from Gatwick today, they're still at the airport as far as I know (my aunt refused to be intimidated into not having her holiday - she'd tightfisted).
Yeah, it's nice to know a plot like this has been foiled. I'm going to Europe next month (which is probably when the attacks were planned to take place) so it's nice to know there is a decreased risk of anything happening. I know the risk is always there, but, like with your aunt, terror threats are not going to stop me either.
Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
anti-Bush propaganda finger pointers
good thing we have pro-bush propaganda lovers to make it all fair and balanced.
but you're right, we should ignore that fact that bush has already begun to pat himself on the back and take the credit, with the help of law enforcement officers, of coarse.
"The recent arrests that our fellow citizens are now learning about are a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation,"
translation: this attempted attack is justification for the war in iraq.
"Obviously we still aren't completely safe, because there are people that still plot and people who want to harm us for what we believe in. It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of America."
translation: the terri'sts are attacking us because they hate freedom, nothing more. also, people who are against my foreign policy believe there is absolutely no threat. (as opposed to simply believing that he started a baseless and illegal war)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207710,00.html
of coarse there is no transcript i can find as of yet, but i listened to the speech and he did in fact say that the world is a safer place since 9/11.
its all suggesting that his policy is to thank for that, and during the elections it will be implied that anyone who is not republican would have allowed the attacks to happen, vote republican or die of radiation burns, etc. it happened in '04 and it will happen now.
Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
look, I'm no fan of Bush myself and I'm not saying that the government isn’t going to use this to try and better their image...but I just don't think that the propaganda aspect of the situation outweighs the fact that a major terror plot has been successfully thwarted
Quite agree, swaying this event to political differences just doesn't really add or contribute to anything. I'm glad this plot was thwarted and thankful it didn't escalate. But we're not gonna get anything until people just take that "republican vs liberal vs democrat" mumble jumble out of their brains.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Quite agree, swaying this event to political differences just doesn't really add or contribute to anything. I'm glad this plot was thwarted and thankful it didn't escalate. But we're not gonna get anything until people just take that "republican vs liberal vs democrat" mumble jumble out of their brains.
yes, lets just pretend its not happening and will not continue to happen through to november.
Originally posted by PVS
"The recent arrests that our fellow citizens are now learning about are a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation,"translation: this attempted attack is justification for the war in iraq.
"Obviously we still aren't completely safe, because there are people that still plot and people who want to harm us for what we believe in. It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of America."
translation: the terri'sts are attacking us because they hate freedom, nothing more. also, people who are against my foreign policy believe there is absolutely no threat. (as opposed to simply believing that he started a baseless and illegal war)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207710,00.html
of coarse there is no transcript i can find as of yet, but i listened to the speech and he did in fact say that the world is a safer place since 9/11.
its all suggesting that his policy is to thank for that, and during the elections it will be implied that anyone who is not republican would have allowed the attacks to happen, vote republican or die of radiation burns, etc. it happened in '04 and it will happen now.
I think any semi-intelligent American (or otherwise) knows very well that apprehending terror suspects and exposing their plans does not justify the war in Iraq in any way. I pretty much take everything the president says with a grain of salt, though; he never was a great speaker, and since his approval is way down he’s obviously going to take advnatage of every opportunity he gets to try and brighten his image. I’m not saying his actions are justified, but I’m not at all surprised by it and don’t think it’s worth making a fuss. I suppose you could make a case for it, but for me it’s just like “what’s the point?” It’s almost to be expected at this point.
I think the fact that the plot was foiled shows us that we’re making some sort of progress in suppressing acts terrorism towards the west, and that’s really the bottom line, no matter who’s ultimately responsible.
Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
I think the fact that the plot was foiled shows us that we’re making some sort of progress in suppressing acts terrorism towards the west, and that’s really the bottom line, no matter who’s ultimately responsible.
agreed. i just shutter at the thought of the successes of law enforcement and international intelligence being twisted around to create more war which fuels terrorism and thus makes it all pointless. why celebrate the halting of one attack when the actions of those in power as a result will lead to its exploitation and increase danger? thats why i am disturbed deeply by the oversimplified train of thought that this is one step in this war on terror. no, this was a series of 21 arrests, and congratulations go out to all responsible, not all who try to steal the credit.
Originally posted by PVS
agreed. i just shutter at the thought of the successes of law enforcement and international intelligence being twisted around to create more war which fuels terrorism and thus makes it all pointless. why celebrate the halting of one attack when the actions of those in power as a result will lead to its exploitation and increase danger? thats why i am disturbed deeply by the oversimplified train of thought that this is one step in this war on terror. no, this was a series of 21 arrests, and congratulations go out to all responsible, not all who try to steal the credit.
I don’t think there will be any wars waged as a result of this, but I see your point. I think most people know that the war on terror is not as simple as the president portrays it (“freedom vs. fascism/good vs. evil”), and I don’t think this should be interpreted by anyone to be justification of the current war and foreign policy. I know the president and his cabinet made huge mistakes on a number of issues…but I guess my biggest thing is that I really don’t know if the opposition is any better! I think John Kerry said it best: “Did I expect George Bush to f*ck it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did.”
How do I know that the democrats have any better ideas? So far I haven’t seen any proof that they have a better strategy to win (or, as I like to think of it, suppress terror), and now what people are seeing is that a terror plot has been thwarted while the current administration is still in charge of the White House. This is where things get complicated and the propaganda comes into play. Even though British authorities made the arrests, it’s not unreasonable to accept the president’s claim that they were working with U.S. intelligence. Does this mean that Bush’s actions and policies are ultimately the reason this plot was uncovered? Absolutely not, but it also shows that progress has been made to stop these kinds of attacks in the U.S., U.K. and elsewhere. Would it have been any different if John Kerry were president today? I have no reason to believe it would. While different administrations (republican, democrat, or otherwise) take the helm, a lot of things just stay the same. Funding seems to be a big issue, and the government has plenty of money to throw around, it’s just a matter of who’s willing to put the money where and how much of it. I know there are great differences, but there are also a lot of things that just stay the same. Until the democrats prove that they have better ideas than the republicans in regard to domestic issues and foreign policy, why should I think that they are any better than future republicans?
Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Until the democrats prove that they have better ideas than the republicans in regard to domestic issues and foreign policy, why should I think that they are any better than future republicans?
you shouldnt believe that they would have done a better job just as you shouldnt believe that they would have done a worse job. it would be a fool's assumption either way.