World Religions

http://wri.leaderu.com/pages.html (Testimonies of conversion from various religions to Christianity )

Do All Paths Lead to the Same Destination?
Keith E. Johnson
Is it possible that Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, etc. represent differing, yet valid, paths to the same destination? This article examines arguments for and against the claim that all paths lead to the same destination.
http://wri.leaderu.com/articles/paths.html

Apostasy and Freedom of Conscience
The near-execution of an Afghan Muslim who converted to Christianity provoked an international outcry because it violated a basic human right - freedom of conscience. The tragedy is: Muslim nations restrict or abuse basic human freedoms, but this should not blind westerners to their failings. Freedom is also abused in the west - albeit somewhat differently - resulting in moral laxity and perversion. To find a spiritual freedom
Read on...
Why Islam shuts down freedom
http://answering-islam.org/Clarke/apostasy.html

Would testimony of un-converting from Christianity, from noted philosopher and all-around good guy Dr. Teh Myself, be appropriate here?

No? I guess not.

All religions have words, guidelines, rules, etc. And somewhere, there are people who abuse them all, and people who use them for good. That hasn't changed, and I really doubt reading some diatribe on the ills of Islam or the wonders of converting from one religion to another will do anything to make me realize otherwise.

ALL PATHS LEAD TO THE SAME DESTINATION........YEP.............IMO

You guys make the mistake of paying him attention....

Just don't respond to his posts....he'll give it up eventually :rollseyes:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Would testimony of un-converting from Christianity, from noted philosopher and all-around good guy Dr. Teh Myself, be appropriate here?

No? I guess not.

All religions have words, guidelines, rules, etc. And somewhere, there are people who abuse them all, and people who use them for good. That hasn't changed, and I really doubt reading some diatribe on the ills of Islam or the wonders of converting from one religion to another will do anything to make me realize otherwise.

Sure it would. Why wouldn't it be?

🙂

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You guys make the mistake of paying him attention....

Just don't respond to his posts....he'll give it up eventually :rollseyes:

Call me a hopeless optimist....I'm still trying. 🙂

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Sure it would. Why wouldn't it be?

🙂

Alright, I'll bite, since you seem at least mildly receptive to it. Here's my "de-conversion" in a nutshell:

Christianity has many wonderful stories and teachings. These stories and teachings coincide with many other stories, mythologies, and religions. In my various studies, most of them within mythology, it became plain that the story of Jesus (and even Moses before him as well as the earlier books of the Bible) has been told in countless forms throughout the ages. Most of these stories predate Christianity, thus making it clear that the stories of the Christian faith are largely (almost entirely) borrowed from earlier sources that were teaching the same things.

The Savior-figure who is both God and Man is an old tale, and was told countless times before Jesus.

The crux of it: All of it can be viewed symbolically as the divinity within any of us, and the idea of a resurrection is a metaphorical spiritual rebirth as well. Those ideas are universal throughout much of history, and are very powerful. But to believe that the Bible has the only truth becomes destructive because it belittles other teachings with the same value.

...

Most people on this site don't have a problem with many of the teachings of Christ. They have a problem with Christians who are overly prophetic about it, to the point of being condescending, and those who warp religious teachings to serve their own social, political, or moral agendas. You fall into that first category, possibly the second, which is why people give you such a hard time.

...k...done now.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Call me a hopeless optimist....I'm still trying. 🙂

Alright, I'll bite, since you seem at least mildly receptive to it. Here's my "de-conversion" in a nutshell:

Christianity has many wonderful stories and teachings. These stories and teachings coincide with many other stories, mythologies, and religions. In my various studies, most of them within mythology, it became plain that the story of Jesus (and even Moses before him as well as the earlier books of the Bible) has been told in countless forms throughout the ages. Most of these stories predate Christianity, thus making it clear that the stories of the Christian faith are largely (almost entirely) borrowed from earlier sources that were teaching the same things.

The Savior-figure who is both God and Man is an old tale, and was told countless times before Jesus.

The crux of it: All of it can be viewed symbolically as the divinity within any of us, and the idea of a resurrection is a metaphorical spiritual rebirth as well. Those ideas are universal throughout much of history, and are very powerful. But to believe that the Bible has the only truth becomes destructive because it belittles other teachings with the same value.

...

Most people on this site don't have a problem with many of the teachings of Christ. They have a problem with Christians who are overly prophetic about it, to the point of being condescending, and those who warp religious teachings to serve their own social, political, or moral agendas. You fall into that first category, possibly the second, which is why people give you such a hard time.

...k...done now.

But considering EVERYTHING that you've written, how do you (not necessarily YOU) explain countless miracles that are performed on behalf of many people all over the world who have no Jesus-bias? Many miracles (deaf receiving their hearing, blind eyes opened, dead people being raised from the dead, including people being HEALED from terminal illnesses) can be CONFIRMED by physicians and other medical personnel. There are an innumerable number of cases of the abovementioned miracles (and others that I have not cited) ocurring all over the the world in remote countries as well as here in the continental U.S. These miracles cannot just be explained away, not even by you or anyone else on this forum site. I know we all have egos and we THINK we know the answer but folks: if doctors and scientists (erudite, educated, scholary, devoted, people who scrutinize EVERYTHING) CANNOT explain the many cases of miracles that they see regularly then I am not inclined to believe that someone who has not submitted to what they have gone through (YEARS, not months of study and learning) can either.

>> You my friend are also flawed in your stating that
>"athiesm has nothing to do with faith." Every belief,
>whether it be in God or not, needs to have faith
>(reason for believing it to be true). I believe in
>God, i have faith in Him. You on the other hand
>believe in and thus have faith in human logic, in the
>"achievements in man" that it explains everything.
>Even though you are an athiest, you have faith in
>yourself, do you not? Thus athiesm is all about
>faith, faith in human logic, not faith in God.
> Another question. When human logic and/or
>science, fail to explain something, where do you turn
>to for answers? In this question i am referring to
>miracles. Some people, after being prayed for have
>had unexplainable healings- healings that even doctors
>will confirm, but know not how to explain. How do you
>explain these?
> Over all, you have failed to realize that,
>whether or not you believe in God, the Biblical
>Prophecies have and will continue to happen, right up
>till the day of Judgement. I pray you will find the
>truth before then.
>~a friend~

I saw this on another forum I copied and pasted here.

Originally posted by Impediment

Knowing Jesus Christ and having a RELATIONSHIP with God the Father THROUGH Jesus Christ IS NOT a religion.

Semanitcs?

Splitting hairs?

Jesus never used the word religion. The word never once left His mouth. If you can find where Jesus Christ said the word religion (literally, and verbally out of His mouth) then I will leave this site forever.

detective

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Knowing Jesus Christ and having a RELATIONSHIP with God the Father THROUGH Jesus Christ IS NOT a religion.

Semanitcs?

Splitting hairs?

Jesus never used the word religion. The word never once left His mouth. If you can find where Jesus Christ said the word religion (literally, and verbally out of His mouth) then I will leave this site forever.

detective

You are Splitting hairs. Christianity is a family of religions, Just like Buddhism is a family of religions.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Knowing Jesus Christ and having a RELATIONSHIP with God the Father THROUGH Jesus Christ IS NOT a religion.

Semanitcs?

Splitting hairs?

Jesus never used the word religion. The word never once left His mouth. If you can find where Jesus Christ said the word religion (literally, and verbally out of His mouth) then I will leave this site forever.

detective

All the same, James stated:

James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

These are what Christ taught. Thus Christ taught religion by the word of an apostle.

http://wri.leaderu.com/pages/montenegro.html

What a POWERFUL testimony!

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But considering EVERYTHING that you've written, how do you (not necessarily YOU) explain countless miracles that are performed on behalf of many people all over the world who have no Jesus-bias? Many miracles (deaf receiving their hearing, blind eyes opened, dead people being raised from the dead, including people being HEALED from terminal illnesses) can be CONFIRMED by physicians and other medical personnel. There are an innumerable number of cases of the abovementioned miracles (and others that I have not cited) ocurring all over the the world in remote countries as well as here in the continental U.S. These miracles cannot just be explained away, not even by you or anyone else on this forum site. I know we all have egos and we THINK we know the answer but folks: if doctors and scientists (erudite, educated, scholary, devoted, people who scrutinize EVERYTHING) CANNOT explain the many cases of miracles that they see regularly then I am not inclined to believe that someone who has not submitted to what they have gone through (YEARS, not months of study and learning) can either.

If someone is going to advance one supernatural, paranormal or unusual explanation for an exceptional event, they have to be willing to consider every other supernatural, paranormal or unusual explanation. The question which thus faces the believer is: how can one possibly compare all these different explanations? How on earth can one reasonably support the idea that something occurred because of a god rather than human telepathy or ghosts?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
>> You my friend are also flawed in your stating that
>"athiesm has nothing to do with faith." Every belief,
>whether it be in God or not, needs to have faith
>(reason for believing it to be true). I believe in
>God, i have faith in Him. You on the other hand
>believe in and thus have faith in human logic, in the
>"achievements in man" that it explains everything.
>Even though you are an athiest, you have faith in
>yourself, do you not? Thus athiesm is all about
>faith, faith in human logic, not faith in God.

I saw this on another forum I copied and pasted here.

Originally posted by Storm
Even if we grant that a "miraculous" event is indeed exceptional enough to warrant an exceptional explanation, we could, for example, postulate that the event was caused by the incredible powers of human minds rather than the incredible powers of a god' s mind. This explanation is no less credible and in fact has the advantage that we know that humans minds exist, whereas the existence of a god' s mind is questionable. If someone is going to advance one supernatural, paranormal or unusual explanation for an exceptional event, they have to be willing to consider every other supernatural, paranormal or unusual explanation. The question which thus faces the believer is: how can one possibly compare all these different explanations? How on earth can one reasonably support the idea that something occurred because of a god rather than human telepathy or ghosts?

Storm, I read everything that you wrote. I understand where you are coming from. But...how can a HUMAN mind produce a MIRACLE? How can someone who is terminally ill be healed from that condition by the human mind? How can someone who is blind all of a sudden see by virture of the human mind? How can a person who was dead (clinically dead: no heartbeat no brain waves. I think this constitutes clinical death.) be raised from the dead by the mind?

Yet NONE of the aforementioned events were effected by the mind; they were done by God's power.

Furthermore, if the mind is so great then how come the mind has not overcome crime, sickness and disease, poverty and all of humankind's other problems? Things are just getting worse: read your daily newspaper. In conclusion, how come the human mind CANNOT OVERCOME DEATH?

I leave you with those final words...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Storm, I read everything that you wrote. I understand where you are coming from. But...how can a HUMAN mind produce a MIRACLE? How can someone who is terminally ill be healed from that condition by the human mind? How can someone who is blind all of a sudden see by virture of the human mind? How can a person who was dead (clinically dead: no heartbeat no brain waves. I think this constitutes clinical death.) be raised from the dead by the mind?

Depends. There have been people who could not walk or hear or see for no apparent medical reason, but rather a mental one. Likewise their have been people whose illness was not as physically set in stone as they or others may have believed and have miraculously "overcome" the illness only for it to be postulated that perhaps the illness was psychological in nature to begin with.

And in dead case - are we talking Jesus and Lazarus? If that is case then that is far from a case of evidence that doctors have been rendered speechless by, as they have no evidence of it. However, once again in modern times there are cases of trances and comas of such a nature that all but the most in depth examination will fail to turn up life signs. Of course people come out of such things sometimes, often giving undertakers quite a scare. But anyway, you are focusing to much on the mind part of Storm's post - the question is merely being asked how if you are putting forward and explanation that is supernatural in nature how you can then rule out all the other supernatural explanations - people with healing powers (medicine men, witches, Shaman etc.) or supernatural beings (Ghosts, spirits etc)

Yet NONE of the aforementioned events were effected by the mind; they were done by God's power.

Which is your claim, which is fine. Of course there are people who claim similar for their God's, or to have a power that lets them do things. It is all about how you see it - there are those who think energy is involved, and that through the mind energy can be directed, we talk about chi blockages, the power of crystals, meditation, chanting and whatever aimed at directing the mind to purify or heal. Are these true? Who knows, which is the point - they are also explanations of a supernatural/divine nature that by rights deserve consideration along with any other explanation that puts forward a supernatural/divine cause in the absence of a sufficient scientific reason.

Furthermore, if the mind is so great then how come the mind has not overcome crime, sickness and disease, poverty and all of humankind's other problems? Things are just getting worse: read your daily newspaper. In conclusion, how come the human mind CANNOT OVERCOME DEATH?

I leave you with those final words...

And why can't God? Oh I forgot, he can, but for most part he doesn't do anything, just occasionally healing a person here or there or some illness - never actually doing anything about crime or poverty. And where do peoples illness come from? The random things? The genetic things? The diseases that developed naturally? But anyway - we can't overcome death - yet. But with science... who knows? It has already pushed it back so we live longer now then we did before. And we haven't overcome crime or poverty? It seems to me that we are the only ones capable of this - and humans are the only ones that actually do anything about it.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Depends. There have been people who could not walk or hear or see for no apparent medical reason, but rather a mental one. Likewise their have been people whose illness was not as physically set in stone as they or others may have believed and have miraculously "overcome" the illness only for it to be postulated that perhaps the illness was psychological in nature to begin with.

And in dead case - are we talking Jesus and Lazarus? If that is case then that is far from a case of evidence that doctors have been rendered speechless by, as they have no evidence of it. However, once again in modern times there are cases of trances and comas of such a nature that all but the most in depth examination will fail to turn up life signs. Of course people come out of such things sometimes, often giving undertakers quite a scare. But anyway, you are focusing to much on the mind part of Storm's post - the question is merely being asked how if you are putting forward and explanation that is supernatural in nature how you can then rule out all the other supernatural explanations - people with healing powers (medicine men, witches, Shaman etc.) or supernatural beings (Ghosts, spirits etc)

Which is your claim, which is fine. Of course there are people who claim similar for their God's, or to have a power that lets them do things. It is all about how you see it - there are those who think energy is involved, and that through the mind energy can be directed, we talk about chi blockages, the power of crystals, meditation, chanting and whatever aimed at directing the mind to purify or heal. Are these true? Who knows, which is the point - they are also explanations of a supernatural/divine nature that by rights deserve consideration along with any other explanation that puts forward a supernatural/divine cause in the absence of a sufficient scientific reason.

And why can't God? Oh I forgot, he can, but for most part he doesn't do anything, just occasionally healing a person here or there or some illness - never actually doing anything about crime or poverty. And where do peoples illness come from? The random things? The genetic things? The diseases that developed naturally? But anyway - we can't overcome death - yet. But with science... who knows? It has already pushed it back so we live longer now then we did before. And we haven't overcome crime or poverty? It seems to me that we are the only ones capable of this - and humans are the only ones that actually do anything about it.

Through Christ Jesus I have eternal life. That means that though I may die physically I will live forever in His presence. If I die before Jesus returns my body will be raised from the dead and will never die again. The Bible says that the former thing have passed away (i.e., death, sorrow, crying, or pain). This is my guarantee with God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Through Christ Jesus I have eternal life. That means that though I may die physically I will live forever in His presence. If I die before Jesus returns my body will be raised from the dead and will never die again. The Bible says that the former thing have passed away (i.e., death, sorrow, crying, or pain). This is my guarantee with God.

Ok.... though a nice notification, it doesn't seem that relevant to what Storm or I was getting at.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Furthermore, if the mind is so great then how come the mind has not overcome crime, sickness and disease, poverty and all of humankind's other problems? Things are just getting worse: read your daily newspaper. In conclusion, how come the human mind CANNOT OVERCOME DEATH?

I leave you with those final words...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But considering EVERYTHING that you've written, how do you (not necessarily YOU) explain countless miracles that are performed on behalf of many people all over the world who have no Jesus-bias? Many miracles (deaf receiving their hearing, blind eyes opened, dead people being raised from the dead, including people being HEALED from terminal illnesses) can be CONFIRMED by physicians and other medical personnel. There are an innumerable number of cases of the abovementioned miracles (and others that I have not cited) ocurring all over the the world in remote countries as well as here in the continental U.S. These miracles cannot just be explained away, not even by you or anyone else on this forum site. I know we all have egos and we THINK we know the answer but folks: if doctors and scientists (erudite, educated, scholary, devoted, people who scrutinize EVERYTHING) CANNOT explain the many cases of miracles that they see regularly then I am not inclined to believe that someone who has not submitted to what they have gone through (YEARS, not months of study and learning) can either.

Can't explain miracles? The human mind and body are capable of a lot. And a "miracle" doesn't necessarily validate Christianity. It just validates what we perceive to be miracles.

And could you or your beliefs explain the documented cases of reincarnation (there's thousands of highly-researched, confirmed cases) that we have? That's just one example. But it goes to show that there's more to this world than your single religion.