Tournament: The Finals

I'm going to go now , but two things. Wait until psyquis post's before making an major decision , his post is the glue for my post. Secondly light is only bent around the characters , not the nanoprobes..think of it like a forcefield, it only has a certain set amount of space.

Oh and Cyborg remembers everything he's ever done seen and thought of with crystal clear clarity (Alliteration yay ! ) thanks to his computer like mind (The man must have a few thousand gigs of brain space.) He's been to Apokalyps assimilated their tech, ran WILD through their computers and can quite easily upgrade/change the environment.

Now i bid you adieu .

-GF

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I also find it odd that his most recent incarnation with GL rings of his own wasn't allowed...though he's had them for many years in comics time. Yet everyone else are having dozens of them at the very least.

Additionally, that decision was made prior to GL #12.

NO-OFFICIAL:

thanks for fielding that, mr. validus . . . 😄

and does anyone know exactly when this will be closed? midnight tonight? earlier?

Yah, midnight. And the poll will be shutting itself down sometime today.

👆

Well I've reached a decision but I'll wait to see if any last minute posts can sway me.

I would just like to take the time to summarize what I think are the important points of this battle and once again explain why I think Leo and I have done the better job debating.

In terms of overall tactics GF and Psy have made numerous mistakes and miscalculations that they are just now starting to address.

First we must address what was perhaps their first mistake and that involved who they drafted. They failed to draft a character who could at least provide a degree of telepathic protection for their team. They made this mistake despite the fact that several teams (ours included) drafted top tier telepaths or at the very least drafted characters with some tp-protection like Magneto or Juggernaut.

Next they depended almost entirely on rather "gimmicky" tactics which they failed to prove they could even accomplish and have now been forced to abandon them. I'm speaking of course of Thor's "gravity attack" which they tried to support with a scan that never mentioned Thor manipulating gravity in any way or even mentioned the word gravity. Also there was Cyborg's mysterious ability to cause Ray to instantly turn into a kryptonian. Not only could they not find any proof of this supposed ability but if it worked it would actually serve only to de-power Ray thanks to the loss of his mutated human DNA!

Then there was the completely illegal tactic of trying to split up Cyborg's consciousness and create numerous bodies form himself. Aside from the fact that they were told that this ability was banned when they drafted Cyborg it is still pointless. By the time the fragments of his mind searched the planet to try and find any tech that may be of use against Herald-level characters (which I don't think exists on the planet Earth at this point) the fight would be well over.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, they consistently failed to actually prove with scans that their characters could do what they are claiming. During this whole debate they not only offered little more than a pittance in terms of actual evidence, but they then veered so far off their character's accepted powerset to be nearly unbelievable. They want the judges to just assume that their characters could do what they claim no matter what that claim actually is. 😬

Now to address each of their characters individually.

Thor

Thor was perhaps their most powerful and versatile character on their team and they completely failed to protect him. He was crippled the minute the fight started. All it would take is a simple telepathic attack to take him completely out of the fight. Hell our team may even be able to convince Thor to be nice and give his hammer to Hal or the Surfer 😈

As powerful as Thor is and as useful as he could have been, he is just a non-factor in this fight. We've shown several scans of instates where Thor was rather easily either manipulated or incapacitated telepathically. Now GF contends that according to him Thor is able to resist telepathy somehow. I say: prove it. Get some scans and for once prove what you are claiming. That is what Leo and I have done. And sorry but I've learned (and I image the judges know this as well) that you just can't take people's word when they are describing feats. ❌ People usually leave out whatever important details or facts that are inconvenient to them.

Cyborg Superman

He is little more than a Superman clone in this fight. While his cyborg half does have greater durability than Superman, his organic half can still be easily attacked. We've proven that kryptonite works on him and shown that physical attacks can K.O. him rather easily. Not only that like most Superman clones he can easily be contained in a Constrictor or other force field (which we also showed with scans). Against a GL Silver Surfer the guy is just out classed.

Ray

I almost feel sorry for Ray. He, like Thor, was crippled from the out set. The only way he could ever have the durability he needs to actually stay alive in a Herald-level fight is to turn into his pure energy form. However, thanks to Hal's anti-energy attack that isn't a possibility. Meaning that they are stuck with a character with human durability against a kryptonian Hal. Not matter what Ray does, he dies very....very quickly.

I think the main problem GF and Psy had was that they were tempted, as other teams in the tourney were, into trying to win with with an over elaborate and far-fetched plan that they couldn't prove their team could actually do. In the end they had to abandon much of their original plan and scramble at the end of the fight to try something else.

This is contrasted with Leo and I who have stuck with our original plan nearly perfectly and proved with great care how we were able to do everything we claim. We took their entire team into account and made sure to work into our plan enough flexibility so that we could realistically deal with anything they tried.

For example now that they have changed their tactics once more and are attempting to speedblitz our team (a team made up of a GL Surfer, a GL Maxima, and a soon to be Kryptonian GL Hal), our initial plan of have the Surfer and Maxima monitor their team with cosmic awareness, telepathy, and GL rings means that we can easily and effectively counter such an attempt.

With all that I either await the votes or the judges or any futher posts from GF or Psy to which I'll be happy to respond. 🙂

NON-OFFICIAL:

clap

and a quick thanks to the judges and readers who've followed this tourney, to the people or decided to participate and of course, to big daddy himself, digi, for putting the whole kit-and-kaboodle together.

well done to all involved.

sombrero2

Last post For real this time.

I have no intention of surviving this tournament. The Ray is on bloodlust and is at the end of his patience with Hal. We know that if Hal can see then light is getting in somehow. So before Hal can whip up his antimatter energy the Ray is going into a pure energy form and zipping into the shield. He is now directing all his energy directly into Hal's head via his eyes in pure light energy form. The result of which will do two things.

1.) It will fry Hal and his brain from the inside out. It's a done deal.

2.) Kill the Ray. If I'm letting everything out then there's nothing left for me to live off of. I'm dead but so is Hal.

That's all I've got. 😄

Good show everybody.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
Last post For real this time.

I have no intention of surviving this tournament. The Ray is on bloodlust and is at the end of his patience with Hal. We know that if Hal can see then light is getting in somehow. So before Hal can whip up his antimatter energy the Ray is going into a pure energy form and zipping into the shield. He is now directing all his energy directly into Hal's head via his eyes in pure light energy form. The result of which will do two things.

1.) It will fry Hal and his brain from the inside out. It's a done deal.

2.) Kill the Ray. If I'm letting everything out then there's nothing left for me to live off of. I'm dead but so is Hal.

That's all I've got. 😄

Good show everybody.

1. The ring protects him against mortal harm and he can easily heal himself even if such an attack actually harmed him in any way.

After fighting a group of GL's with superior versions of the Power Ring (NO weakness to yellow, in general more powerful) Hal simply heals himself and is back in the fight:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/GreenLantern167-02.jpg

2. You're half right. Only Ray will be dead. 🙂

It's been fun everybody. I look forward to reading the judges verdicts.

sombrero2

Originally posted by TheKahn
1. The ring protects him against mortal harm and he can easily heal himself even if such an attack actually harmed him in any way.

After fighting a group of GL's with superior versions of the Power Ring (NO weakness to yellow, in general more powerful) Hal simply heals himself and is back in the fight:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/GreenLantern167-02.jpg

2. You're half right. Only Ray will be dead. 🙂

It's been fun everybody. I look forward to reading the judges verdicts.

sombrero2

Just saying the ring will do it doesn't make it fact. If you're only defense for it is that the ring can do anything and that's all there is to it, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. If the ring can do anything then at the very start why didn't Hal just tell the ring to go make my team a bunch of toddlers and then be done with it? Because the ring can't do ANYTHING!!!! That's a cop out. Forget it. Hal's dead. It's too much for him, and even if he isn't dead then he's certainly out of the fight. You can say

Originally posted by Psyquis52
I don't think the ring will be able to defend him from such a direct assault. Not at the capacity that I'm dishing out. Nice scan by the way. Yep that's definately the same scale as what I'm dishing out. 🙄 That doesn't prove you can defend yourself this time. I'll be moving too fast and striking too directly with too much force. Even the ring has it's limits in automatic defenses.

Just saying the ring will do it doesn't make it fact. If you're only defense for it is that the ring can do anything and that's all there is to it, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. If the ring can do anything then at the very start why didn't Hal just tell the ring to go make my team a bunch of toddlers and then be done with it? Because the ring can't do ANYTHING!!!! That's a cop out. Forget it. Hal's dead. It's too much for him, and even if he isn't dead then he's certainly out of the fight. You can say

I really don't understand what point you were trying to make there... 😑

The rings have always protected their wearers from mortal harm. It's not something I'm just "saying".....it's one of the most widely known and accepted aspects of the rings.....😕

For example, here the ring protects a rookie Hal from a nuclear blast:
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9863/emeralddawn00321rougher8ak.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/4952/emeralddawn00322rougher7zi.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9159/greenlanternemeralddawn04014zn.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/1280/greenlanternemeralddawn04022ta.jpg

Not only is Hal completely protected from the force and radiation released, but his eyes are unharmed from the unimaginably intense burst of light a nuclear explosion produces. Which is much more powerful and brighter than anything you've proven Ray can do...😬

Originally posted by TheKahn
I really don't understand what point you were trying to make there... 😑

The rings have [b]always protected their wearers from mortal harm. It's not something I'm just "saying".....it's one of the most widely known and accepted aspects of the rings.....😕

For example, here the ring protects a rookie Hal from a nuclear blast:

Not only is Hal completely protected from the force and radiation released, but his eyes are unharmed from the unimaginably intense burst of light a nuclear explosion produces. Which is much more powerful and brighter than anything you've proven Ray can do...😬 [/B]

I can keep going if you want. Just because it's protected Hal here and there doesn't mean it's defenses are impentetrable.

And where the heck are you going with this whole light brighter than what I can come up with crap?!! A guy can't post a scan or two and suddenly his character has never done a thing? I think you are severly underestimating my character pal. That's a cheap shot.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
The ring doesn't always protect the wearer from mortal harm. If it did then how did Superboy Prime kill all those GL's? How did Sinestro?

I can keep going if you want. Just because it's protected Hal here and there doesn't mean it's defenses are impentetrable.

And where the heck are you going with this whole light brighter than what I can come up with crap?!! A guy can't post a scan or two and suddenly his character has never done a thing? I think you are severly underestimating my character pal. That's a cheap shot.

Simple. Sinestro used the old weakness to the color yellow which is no longer present. As for Superboy Prime either it was PIS or the writer was unaware of that the GL rings have that power. Kyle has contained a big-bang like explosion but SBP is able to "punch" through a construct beign created by multiple GLs that is 300 miles thick? And in that same series Conner was able to take hits from him and Bart was able to make him bleed? SBP had a jobber aura the size of Montanna.

As for you not posting a single scan in defense of Ray.....well you only have yourself to blame. Nobody forced you to draft a character you couldn't defend and there are several respect threads of other characters you could have picked. A critical part of a debate is using scans to back up your claims.

Would you have just accepted half of the stuff I claimed Hal could do if I didn't post scans to back it up? 😬

And does anyone have a count on the number of posts we've used. We have to be getting close to 9 by now.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Simple. Sinestro used the old weakness to the color yellow which is no longer present. As for Superboy Prime either it was PIS or the writer was unaware of that the GL rings have that power. Kyle has contained a big-bang like explosion but SBP is able to "punch" through a construct beign created by multiple GLs that is 300 miles thick? And in that same series Conner was able to take hits from him and Bart was able to make him bleed? SBP had a jobber aura the size of Montanna.

As for you not posting a single scan in defense of Ray.....well you only have yourself to blame. Nobody forced you to draft a character you could defend and there are several respect thread of other characters you could have picked. A critical part of a debate is using scans to back up your claims.

Would you have just accepted half of the stuff I claimed Hal could do if I didn't post scans to back it up? 😬

And does anyone have a count on the number of posts we've used. We have to be getting close to 9 by now.

You're right. There isn't a lot of evidence I can provide in the support of the Ray. That's something I've had to deal with throughout the entire tournament. Fact is that this computer can't post scans and that the Ray isn't exactly a fan-favorite so it's hard to find any proof of his abilities online. But everything I've said he can do is 100% on the ball. He can do all the aformentioned things and has done most. (I'm pretty sure he's never tried to kill himself)

However, merely stating that it's PIS doesn't mean that it can't be done. I may be wrong here but didn't Cyborg Superman kill some GL's? What's your defense for that one? That the writer forgot something? No. I don't think so. That's not a good defense.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
I have one post left after this one.

You're right. There isn't a lot of evidence I can provide in the support of the Ray. That's something I've had to deal with throughout the entire tournament. Fact is that this computer can't post scans and that the Ray isn't exactly a fan-favorite so it's hard to find any proof of his abilities online. But everything I've said he can do is 100% on the ball. He can do all the aformentioned things and has done most. (I'm pretty sure he's never tried to kill himself)

However, merely stating that it's PIS doesn't mean that it can't be done. I may be wrong here but didn't Cyborg Superman kill some GL's? What's your defense for that one? That the writer forgot something? No. I don't think so. That's not a good defense.

Nope but you're wrong again, Bucky. 😉 There a couple of ways to get around the rings protection and kill a GL......it's just I'm not going to tell you how Cyborg Superman or anybody else managed to do it. That's your job. 😐

And it's safe to say that the tactics you and GF are currently using (what is this like the 3rd or 4th change in tactics?) are sadly not among them. ❌

And to be perfectly frank, I don't really give a shit that Superboy Prime or anybody else for that matter was able to kill off some unknown Green Lantern. SPB is was specifically banned from this tourney for being too powerful and no one on your team can match his level of PIS. And I don't think Cyborg Superman has actually killed any GLs anyway. He, along with the Manhunters, merely captured the ones Hal thought he killed when he was Parallax. As far as I know they are still alive.

I've proven the ring will protect Hal from mortal harm and easily handle the light, heat, and force of a nuclear explosion like it was nothing. And assuming Ray could even match that is being generous given the circumstances. Besides the Surfer would sense the attack coming thanks to his cosmic awareness and could simply use the anti-energy on Ray (he does have all of Hal's memories after all) 😖hifty:

The problem remains that every claim you made has to be taken with a grain of salt. Without proof the judges have no way to know if what you are claiming is true or not. And in a tourney everyone's is suspect to a degree. Some sucidial attack that you don't even know the extent of just won't cut it. 😬

Well I think that's my 9 posts and I need to get to bed anyway. It's been one hell of a ride.

sombrero2

Well guys, it looks like at this point the debate is truly over. The fight seems to have been won and my vote goes to "The Cosmic Caballeros."

Overall, they just seemed to have a more solid case along with scans and well thought out plans.

I felt that Cyborg and Thor weren't used to their ultimate potential and without much knowledge of the Ray and no scans to back up his feats, it's been an uphill battle.

All in all gentlemen, my vote has been placed and good luck to both as their is still time to decide a winner!

Kudos to all contestants!

Originally posted by TheKahn
Nope but you're wrong again, Bucky. 😉 There a couple of ways to get around the rings protection and kill a GL......it's just I'm not going to tell you how Cyborg Superman or anybody else managed to do it. That's your job. 😐

And it's safe to say that the tactics you and GF are currently using (what is this like the 3rd or 4th change in tactics?) are sadly not among them. ❌

And to be perfectly frank, I don't really give a shit that Superboy Prime or anybody else for that matter was able to kill off some unknown Green Lantern. SPB is was specifically banned from this tourney for being too powerful and no one on your team can match his level of PIS. And I don't think Cyborg Superman has actually killed any GLs anyway. He, along with the Manhunters, merely captured the ones Hal thought he killed when he was Parallax. As far as I know they are still alive.

I've proven the ring will protect Hal from mortal harm and easily handle the light, heat, and force of a nuclear explosion like it was nothing. And assuming Ray could even match that is being generous given the circumstances. Besides the Surfer would sense the attack coming thanks to his cosmic awareness and could simply use the anti-energy on Ray (he does have all of Hal's memories after all) 😖hifty:

The problem remains that every claim you made has to be taken with a grain of salt. Without proof the judges have [b]no way to know if what you are claiming is true or not. And in a tourney everyone's is suspect to a degree. Some sucidial attack that you don't even know the extent of just won't cut it. 😬

Well I think that's my 9 posts and I need to get to bed anyway. It's been one hell of a ride.

sombrero2 [/B]

First of all my name's not Bucky. It's Alice. Get it right. 😠

You did prove that the ring protects him but you didn't prove that it protects him everytime. Are we to assume that Hal has never lost a fight as GL? That he's never suffered a loss to someone?

Also a combination of things that I would like to say on the effectiveness of my suicide attack. 1. It penetrates your shield 2. Earlier in the tournament I had stated that I could drain your body of heat something that I don't feel you countered viably and I'm certain others feel the same way, so odds are that Hal is suffering from Hypothermia by the time I perform my attack making it that much more effective 3. Similar attacks such as this have been used to take down higher powered being than Hal. Such as Darkseid in Rock of Ages. Read that and you'll see what I mean.

It has been fun and all insults and parries aside you two have been great combatants. I don't really care if I win now (which is probably a good thing because I doubt I will) at least I made it this far. 😄

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Well guys, it looks like at this point the debate is truly over. The fight seems to have been won and my vote goes to "The Cosmic Caballeros."

Overall, they just seemed to have a more solid case along with scans and well thought out plans.

I felt that Cyborg and Thor weren't used to their ultimate potential and without much knowledge of the Ray and no scans to back up his feats, it's been an uphill battle.

All in all gentlemen, my vote has been placed and good luck to both as their is still time to decide a winner!

Kudos to all contestants!

😄

that's one down . . .

It's 2-0 then?