Phoenix force vs The Beyonder

Originally posted by manorastroman
does nobody understand the concept of a retcon? look. in continuity, it was revealed that beyonder's feats were illusion, which means that everything in secret wars never really happened. it doesn't matter how the writers intended it, and we'll never know anyway. what matters is that beyonder NEVER did anything it appeared he did "pre-retcon". you following me? i'm putting stress on the word never for a reason.

This ISN'T A COMIC BOOK. It's a FORUM BATTLE. Continuity can be halted and certain characters and versions used if we want. Is it really hard to focus on stories of Beyonder before it was retconned?

Originally posted by manorastroman
does nobody understand the concept of a retcon? look. in continuity, it was revealed that beyonder's feats were illusion,
what matters is that beyonder NEVER did anything it appeared he did "pre-retcon". you following me?

I see how you feel.

This is the deal.

They were never "illusions", I don't know where you got that from.

They were "partial incarnations"...which are very real.

Before the ret-con, what Beyonder did on panel is VALID in a vs thread if you specify "PRE-Retcon Beyonder"

I showed you the scans where POST-retcon Beyonder can collapse the Multi-verse with his death...you must've missed that.

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"
"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"

POST-retcon Beyonder is an essential force in reality.

I showed when POST-retcon Beyonder & POST-retcon Molecule Man battled, they where collapsing the Multiverse.

"from the Quantum to the Trans-Multiversal, Reality trembles as the forces unleashed reverberate through out creation"

Realize how ALL Reality is falling apart because of them, (both are POST-Retcon).
A WATCHER even goes blind in another Universe.

They are WARPING Universes in this fight 😱

Now when has Phoenix (any version) rocked the Multi-verse?

Don't hold your breath on that one.

Originally posted by manorastroman
that is the scan i was looking for, mr. master...and it brings up a very interesting point. how could the "omniscient", "omnipotent" beyonder learn anything?

Logan will answer that one for you.

Originally posted by manorastroman
moreover, there's still the issue of that being rachel grey rather than the totality of the force.

If you want to ignore On Panel art and character statements (from the Watcher no less) that's your prerogative.

"She has become ALL she EVER dreamed of...and FAR, FAR more.
"as Jean Grey once faced this ultimate trial, so must HER child"

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
This ISN'T A COMIC BOOK. It's a FORUM BATTLE. Continuity can be halted and certain characters and versions used if we want. Is it really hard to focus on stories of Beyonder before it was retconned?

😮‍💨

Originally posted by Mr Master
😮‍💨

wine

Originally posted by manorastroman
does nobody understand the concept of a retcon? look. in continuity, it was revealed that beyonder's feats were illusion, which means that everything in secret wars never really happened.

The illuision was his actual level of power as opposed to his percieved level of power. Basically the retcon just made it so he wasn't more powerful than everyone in the multiverse(including abstracts) combined. If the Secret Wars never really happend, we wouldn't have Venom. So basicaly, even if you using the recton, he couldn't take the Living Tribunal 1 on 1, but he was still a multiversal being of emmense power(just not as much as everyone else thought) who COULD beat the likes of Eternity and as was proven Multi-Death).

Originally posted by darthgoober
The illuision was his actual level of power as opposed to his percieved level of power. Basically the retcon just made it so he wasn't more powerful than everyone in the multiverse(including abstracts) combined. If the Secret Wars never really happend, we wouldn't have Venom. So basicaly, even if you using the recton, he couldn't take the Living Tribunal 1 on 1, but he was still a multiversal being of emmense power(just not as much as everyone else thought) who COULD beat the likes of Eternity and as was proven Multi-Death).

Is this thread even "Pre Retcon Beyonder"?
It just looks like it says Beyonder to me.

Originally posted by darthgoober
. If the Secret Wars never really happend, we wouldn't have Venom.

Wisdom. 😎

Originally posted by Juntai
Its not that everyone else thought that though, its that they pretended along with him to help ease him into the reality of it.

I was talking about the heros thinking it, I knew the abstracts were in the know.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wisdom. 😎

Thank You. 😎

Originally posted by Juntai
Is this thread even "Pre Retcon Beyonder"?
It just looks like it says Beyonder to me.

Yes it is Pre Retcon.

When the thread starter was asked, which version of Beyonder.

He replied.

Originally posted by joesha28
His most powerful version...

couldnt post ret conned beyonder also beat phoenix hard?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes it is Pre Retcon.

When the thread starter was asked, which version of Beyonder.

He replied.

Originally posted by manorastroman
does nobody understand the concept of a retcon? look. in continuity, it was revealed that beyonder's feats were illusion, which means that everything in secret wars never really happened. it doesn't matter how the writers intended it, and we'll never know anyway. what matters is that beyonder NEVER did anything it appeared he did "pre-retcon". you following me? i'm putting stress on the word never for a reason.

that is the scan i was looking for, mr. master...and it brings up a very interesting point. how could the "omniscient", "omnipotent" beyonder learn anything?

moreover, there's still the issue of that being rachel grey rather than the totality of the force.

on panel proof says he has the power of millions of multiverses.. .he didn't say it. narrator did.

phoenix was given power by the beyonder, and it was related to being on panel, equivalent to jean grey as phoenix when she restored the mkrann crystal.

galactus was humbled by beyonder. knocked clean out without even a thought.

Even LT was fearful of Beyonder. What is fear, but another term for respect.

and as for pre-retcon. This fight is both beings, shown at their strongest. get it through your head.

Just because you know all, and see all, isn't the same thing as understanding it all. Wisdom, is not the same as Intelligence.

💃

Even LT was fearful of Beyonder. What is fear, but another term for respect

You would respect a man with a gun to your face?

I grovel in fear before the combined might of WhiteWitchKing, Mr. Master... But whats scarier is finding BigBran managed to use the words conned, hard, post and beat all in the same sentence in reference to a guy and a girl 🧑‍⚕️

Originally posted by rotiart
I grovel in fear before the combined might of WhiteWitchKing, Mr. Master... But whats scarier is finding BigBran managed to use the words conned, hard, post and beat all in the same sentence in reference to a guy and a girl 🧑‍⚕️

Originally posted by bigbran
couldnt post ret conned beyonder also beat phoenix hard?

Yes.

Originally posted by manorastroman

moreover, there's still the issue of that being rachel grey rather than the totality of the force.

Rachel controlled by Mordred (servant of Chthon). Quasar takes on both Mordred and Rachel.

Not too shabby eh? Quasar holding his own against Rachel.

Rachel getting knocked out by Thor. (Courtesy of Validus)

Dormammu beating up Giraud & the GG.

Most experienced host Jean Grey getting killed by Xorn. 🙄