Robert Spencer: Islam as a peaceful religion is "hogwash".

Originally posted by Fatima
NO , its not

maybe because you are very lazy to study it .

its realy shocking to know that peopl fabricate things about something they didnt know it ,and proof it .

I laugh when people say "you don't study the Quran" or "you don't bother studying the bible"

The text is quite clear . I don't care for "educated interpretations" at the moment. The text and quote itself is quite direct and quite obvious. I love how people try to sugar up their texts with phoney intepretations and then accuse someone who reads the text of not properly understanding.

Where is the text ..please ?

Originally posted by Fatima
Its bolcked ....maybe thats explane one thing

do you know what is it ?or i tell you

Fatima, all sites which critisise Islam are blocked from Muslim countries.
I am sorry this is so.

Click here to access the site http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/heaven.html

Also, Fatima, please click here http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.faithfreedom.org

Fatima, if Islam is a true religion, why is all criticism of Muhammad and Islam, banned, and in places punishable by death?

It is good to critisise and evaluate everything. Allah gave you a brain Fatima - he will be offended if you did not use it.
You are as good as any man - you are as smart as any man. Allah didn't make one a degree over another.

Allah did not mean for men to be protectors of women - everyone is equal and able as each other.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Fatima, if Islam is a true religion, why is all criticism of Muhammad and Islam, banned, and in places punishable by death?

Islam is a true religion. Censorship is a problem in other nations too. Its a POLITICAL problem, not a religous one.

Originally posted by Alliance
Islam is a true religion. Censorship is a problem in other nations too. Its a POLITICAL problem, not a religous one.

If Islam is a true religion, why are you not a Muslim?

Do explain now, how is a political issue to forbid viewing of a website which critisises religion?

I never said Islam was THE true religion, but it is a real religion.

Censorship is a political issue because its likely that much more than just one website that criticises religion is blocked. Im sure free-media cites and other forms of free discussion are blocked as well. Its a censorship issue and it happens across the globe: Russia, China, are other obvious examples.

It may limit religious freedom, but its primary goal is to limit free thought.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If Islam is a true religion, why are you not a Muslim?

Do explain now, how is a political issue to forbid viewing of a website which critisises religion?

islam is tru religion , as we belive in christianity as atrue relgion ,he just said his view ,

there are different between critisisesand and hurt religion , in most cases we call the government to blocked bad sites .

i really think that islam perfect ,and people who are critisises it want just to damage islamic reputation .

and if you hav equestion i m ready ...

Originally posted by Fatima
i really think that islam perfect ,and people who are critisises it want just to damage islamic reputation

Islam, like every religion, is not perfect.

I criticise Islam because i believe there are flaws in it, I also have great respect for Islam's role in both intellectual and cultural history and liek all religions, there are good anf bad parts to it.

I know it may be hard to see things this way, with increasing xenophbia and Western overextension into the middle east, but really many people don't think their religion is perfect either. They don't criticise to attack, they do so because they feel its right.

Many countries in the Middle East have serious human rights issues, many of which are fueld by Islamic fundamentalists. I am all for the integration of the Middle East into the global society (I feel we have neglected it for too long), but buildings like the Burj Dubai aren't going to overcome these issues.

People from all walks of life need to learn how to accept honest criticism and realize that they to can honestly criticize.

Originally posted by Fatima
Where is the text ..please ?

Fatima, I am sorry to say, but because of the fact that you are only given access to sites and references that show the good side of Islam, but not the bad side, you are closed off to only one bias point of view and not shown the entire truth.

Your religion has aspects, both good and bad, and is FAR from being perfect. You, being where you live, are taught to beleive it is perfect through closed education and religious propaganda.

Much the way many many Americans here are taught to beleive that Christianity is flawless and perfect.

Originally posted by Alliance
Islam, like every religion, is not perfect.

I criticise Islam because i believe there are flaws in it, I also have great respect for Islam's role in both intellectual and cultural history and liek all religions, there are good anf bad parts to it.

I know it may be hard to see things this way, with increasing xenophbia and Western overextension into the middle east, but really many people don't think their religion is perfect either. They don't criticise to attack, they do so because they feel its right.

Many countries in the Middle East have serious human rights issues, many of which are fueld by Islamic fundamentalists. I am all for the integration of the Middle East into the global society (I feel we have neglected it for too long), but buildings like the Burj Dubai aren't going to overcome these issues.

People from all walks of life need to learn how to accept honest criticism and realize that they to can honestly criticize.

i really belive in christianity as a relgion , but the bible didnt has rules ,laws ,punshment as quran has ,so that dont expect people to listen at human opinion more than there god .becuase they relize that god know there benefits , and what is good ,and bad for them .

criticise the thing that feel its right >>>ummm, like :veil on womens, ,or why man has tha right to marry more than 1 instead of get involved in illegal relationship ,and call people whos defend on there land a terrorists .

If all these countrys that has human rights issue applay islamic rules ,you will find the real democracy , that appeard 1400 years ago .

Originally posted by Fatima
i really belive in christianity as a relgion , but the bible didnt has rules ,laws ,punshment as quran has ,so that dont expect people to listen at human opinion more than there god .becuase they relize that god know there benefits , and what is good ,and bad for them .

This is incorrect, whole chapters of the bible are devoted to sins and what the punishment should be. However, many people don't follow these rules anymore. These people let thier god do the judging, not themselves. Who better to do it than god? Humans can make mistakes.

Originally posted by Fatima
criticise the thing that feel its right >>>ummm, like :veil on womens, ,or why man has tha right to marry more than 1 instead of get involved in illegal relationship ,and call people whos defend on there land a terrorists .

I am well aware of general steryotypes of Muslims and I feel you have a right to be defensive. However, let me tell you my interpretations.

I think that if a woman chooses to wear a veil, it is a devout statement of religious faith. However, I don't feel that people should be forced to wear the veil if they do not want to. If all women are forced too, I think it ruins the significance of the action, because it is no longer a statement of faith, it is a requirement. Many Islamic women I know choose to wear a veil, even though they are not required too and I respect their devotion to thier faith.

I have a great respect for nationalism and I respect groups that stnad up for thier country. Groups like Hamas and Hizbollah are nationalist organizations and I support thier desire to improve thier nations. However, I don't approve of thier tactics. I don't think causing mass death is an effective solution and I think it severly lowers international support for thier jsut causes. However, I recognize that other parties, especially Isreal, also have tremendous fault. I support the political causes of these parties, but I don't support thier tactics, no matter how jsutified they are in stiking back. I think history has shown that violence is not going to solve these issues.

I don't support groups like Al-Queda at all. These people directly attack other nations (New York, Madrid, London) and have no nationalist goals. Many Muslims died in Al-Queda's attacks in New York, and likely in London and Madrid too. These people are civilians....innocent people. To me, they just want to cause pain and suffering on innocent people and I don't tolerate that.

Originally posted by Fatima
If all these countrys that has human rights issue applay islamic rules ,you will find the real democracy , that appeard 1400 years ago .

Originally posted by Alliance
I never said Islam was THE true religion, but it is a real religion.

Censorship is a political issue because its likely that much more than just one website that criticises religion is blocked. Im sure free-media cites and other forms of free discussion are blocked as well. Its a censorship issue and it happens across the globe: Russia, China, are other obvious examples.

It may limit religious freedom, but its primary goal is to limit free thought.

That is exactly what you said.

Originally posted by Alliance
Islam is a true religion.

My post did not suggest that the religion is not real, but true.

Perhaps if you warent so quick to contradict me in everything I say....

Saying ''true religion'' particulary when refering to Islam has a special meaning because Islam is often refered to as ''one true religion'' by Muslims
And was exactly what I was refering to when speaking to Fatima.

The point was to make her think outside the box and the idea that Islam is the only way.

Another thing I am concerned with - while China ( and i would assume) Russia have sites blocked regarding political issues, I really doubt that Russia has banned sites which crtisise Christianity.

Although I see the political indication of this - i do not understand how religious critisism would affect any Muslim countries if they are only concered with political issue.

This would logically only be if the religion IS political issue. Which of course, as demonstrated here, clearly is.

And which is one of my arguments from the very begining.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Fatima, if Islam is a true religion, why is all criticism of Muhammad and Islam, banned, and in places punishable by death?

This to me means that Islam is not "a" (as in one among many) "true" (as in false/not valid) religion.

Thus I responded...

Originally posted by Alliance
Islam is a true religion.

"a" as in one true (as in factual). I again clarified.

Originally posted by Alliance
I never said Islam was THE true religion, but it is a real religion.

Islam is not True, nor is it the truth. It is a true religion.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but there is a differnce between "a" (one among many) and "the" (only one). If you meant to say that Islam was not actual truth, you did not write it correctly.

Perhaps if you were a little less derrogatory and condemning of me your mind would be a bit more flexible on issues such as this?

Regardless, I don't know of many pluralistic countires where religion is not an issue. China clearly supresses religous information, but is not itself a religious state. In the US Chirstian groups attmept to censor things all the time, notably books that contradict their teachings and press that gives them a bad image.

Why would a state censor all other aspects, but not religion? Its not really logical. I'm sure they censor Western Islamic thought as well. To me, this censorship is designed to stop the "West" from "corrupting" their society. It preserves the power. Religion is only a secondary means to that power.

I do hope, no I KNOW you understand the differance between ''US Christian GROUPS'' ''trying'' to do something and government actually imposing it.

Again, this is a silly example. You have groups trying to supress all kinds of things. We have PETA trying to stop us eat meat. You have all kinds of pressure groups - we even have here people pressuring for return of Death Penalty.
But none of this has ever come to be because the government does what is in its political scope.

We all know China declares itself communist, and we all know that Communism = Atheism. Marx despised religion, and he made it ever so clear in Das Kapital.
Marx himself claimed that religion is the opium of the masses. Its nothing and it has no use.

This is part of Political Ideology of China, and which is very different to what we are talking about now.

We are talking about religion which IS a political ideology, otherwise, why restrict religion?
If Islam has nothing to do with politics, why bother with it.

Islamic Republic of Iran - the name itself tells you that this is a religion lead country.

Islam is a political system of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Sudan, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Jordan, Oman, Lebanon, Lybia, Quatar...etc etc etc

They have Islam as its political system - in one form or the other - while Muslims are in ''greater numbers'' or ''islam is the official religion'' - they all have Sharia Law as their governing system, family system or both.

In Saudi Arabia or exaple, there is a reliious police.

I still don't understand how Islam is any different of a religion than Christianity or Judaism.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I still don't understand how Islam is any different of a religion than Christianity or Judaism.

I don't think you will be able to see the difference unless you become really interested in it.

And by that I mean interested enough to look through it complitely and fully - from religious texts, to the theology of Islam, to the history and its prophet.
The differance then becomes self evident.

I understand a lot which has been said regarding Islam is based on assumptions, and one of this is that Islam is the same as Christianity and Judaism.

If we take that into account, many comments made by some mebers here, are not that strange.

I am actually quite interested in it, one thing I don't get though, do you have to believe in angels to be a true Muslim?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't think you will be able to see the difference unless you become really interested in it.

And by that I mean interested enough to look through it complitely and fully - from religious texts, to the theology of Islam, to the history and its prophet.
The differance then becomes self evident.

I understand a lot which has been said regarding Islam is based on assumptions, and one of this is that Islam is the same as Christianity and Judaism.

If we take that into account, many comments made by some mebers here, are not that strange.

and you intrested in proof that islam as bad religion , maybe this rule and law in islam didnt fit the western way , but in our side we think its really work and we are very happy about it .

i dont see that you show us one advantage of islam in all your posts .

Originally posted by Fatima
and you intrested in proof that islam as bad religion , maybe this rule and law in islam didnt fit the western way , but in our side we think its really work and we are very happy about it .

i dont see that you show us one advantage of islam in all your posts .

Originally posted by Fatima
and you intrested in proof that islam as bad religion , maybe this rule and law in islam didnt fit the western way , but in our side we think its really work and we are very happy about it .

i dont see that you show us one advantage of islam in all your posts .

maybe i've got the wrong end of the stick (more than likely) but i believe in that Australian attitude when it comes to mixing other religion to the western way, its is most logical. But then i have a very icy attitude to such thing, don't set me off, i can do damage here 😐