Robert Spencer: Islam as a peaceful religion is "hogwash".

Originally posted by Fatima
and you intrested in proof that islam as bad religion , maybe this rule and law in islam didnt fit the western way , but in our side we think its really work and we are very happy about it .

i dont see that you show us one advantage of islam in all your posts .

Its not so much fitting the laws of the east with those of the west, but having laws and rules which can be applied to the age of enlightement, allowing everyone dignity and human rights.

Stonning for adultary for example, is not very effective way of governing - at least not in 21st century.

Besides, obaying laws of the west, while in the west sould be mandatory - asking for special privilages based on religion, seems unfair.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Its not so much fitting the laws of the east with those of the west, but having laws and rules which can be applied to the age of enlightement, allowing everyone dignity and human rights.

Stonning for adultary for example, is not very effective way of governing - at least not in 21st century.

Besides, obaying laws of the west, while in the west sould be mandatory - asking for special privilages based on religion, seems unfair.

I told you before that islam was the first religion a dopt the democracy , and afford for everyone humans rights , but there are alot of governments in middle east like :egypt ,jordan ,even suadi arabia, which are politicaly dictators .the ruler just afraid that people will represent on there policy ,so they send them to jail ,martyr .

Adultry ,i belive that when quran told muslims to stonning women ,men that becuas god want us to deal with all treatments in the life in legal way, it like stealing ,or cheating .Also, its guaranty alot of children life and provide for them future , afamily name .
you know also that honor is very important things in arab culture even before islam .i dont think the time will change there look at adultry ,the womens didnt leave there veil so dont expect them to leave there honors .

Islam asplode.

Originally posted by Fatima
I told you before that islam was the first religion a dopt the democracy , and afford for everyone humans rights , but there are alot of governments in middle east like :egypt ,jordan ,even suadi arabia, which are politicaly dictators .the ruler just afraid that people will represent on there policy ,so they send them to jail ,martyr .

Er the Celts had that even before Islam existed and they treated their women better.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Islam asplode.

we dont need your opinion , keep it in your little brain

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er the Celts had that even before Islam existed and they treated their women better.

Really , did you read arab history befor islam , or you just want to argue without proof 🙄

your name look arabic to me ....

Originally posted by Fatima
Really , did you read arab history befor islam , or you just want to argue without proof 🙄

your name look arabic to me ....

Arab Histroy before Islam has nothing to do with what you said; anyways, Alfthiem is right. Democracy in a religious sense existed in the Celtic tribes. Where's your proof then?

It's German. (Right Alfhiem?)

Originally posted by Fatima
Really , did you read arab history befor islam , or you just want to argue without proof 🙄

your name look arabic to me ....

Celts did treat their women better. So did pre-islamic arabs.

Pre-Islamic arab history did not require women to cover up, there was no such thing as polygamy practiced amongst Arabs, and women had their own businesses and were also high priestesses of pagan Arab Gods.

Things just got worse for Arab women after Islam. The history indicates so, while the propaganda will have you believe that they were liberated.

Liberated from what?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
polygamy

Perhaps they're speaking of royalty.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Perhaps they're speaking of royalty.

Im not sure I understand what you mean.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Celts did treat their women better. So did pre-islamic arabs.

Pre-Islamic arab history did not require women to cover up, there was no such thing as polygamy practiced amongst Arabs, and women had their own businesses and were also high priestesses of pagan Arab Gods.

Things just got worse for Arab women after Islam. The history indicates so, while the propaganda will have you believe that they were liberated.

Liberated from what?

Did muslim womens complain to you about their veil , women in islam can work and own businesses ,and i dont think it will has any problme ,
womens in pre-islamic arab were like slave
has no right to inherited
any money , but in islam she got inherited from father , brother ,husband,which dont exist in west she has no right in this , even the animal can gain more than her.

i dont think that any things got worse after islam at all, it become more more better , i really dont undestand how you think .

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Im not sure I understand what you mean.

Pre-islamic royalty, such as egyptian pharaohs had many wives and concubines. But I may be speaking out of context, as I didn't read back that far in the thread.

Originally posted by Fatima
Did muslim womens complain to you about their veil ,

women in islam can work and own businesses ,and i dont think it will has any problme ,

women in pre-islamic arab were like slave
had no right to inherited
any money , but in islam she got inherited from father , brother ,husband,which dont exist in west she has no right in this , even the animal can gain more than her.

i dont think that any things got worse after islam at all, it become more more better , i really dont undestand how you think .

No, because then they would be killed.

So could pre-Islam Arab women.

No, they weren't.

No, it actually did exist in the West.

Originally posted by Fatima

your name look arabic to me ....

LOL, my name is old norse. It means Elf home.

Originally posted by Fatima
Really , did you read arab history befor islam , or you just want to argue without proof 🙄

Doesn't really matter i'll just get lil to run this piece.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll

No, because then they would be killed.

So could pre-Islam Arab women.

No, they weren't.

No, it actually did exist in the West.

killed 😕 , dont worry our parents give us all freedom to choase , becuase they know how strong is our faith .

no problem 😎

now you know our situation better than we did , maybe you lived there ..
😱

yes , but its according to the person if he want to give her ,before he die or for someone els ..

Originally posted by Alfheim
LOL, my name is old norse. It means Elf home.

Doesn't really matter i'll just get lil to run this piece.

do you know that your name meaning in arabic the person who understand well , adj

you look not..

but you have google if you want ....i can post topic about it .

Originally posted by Fatima
do you know that your name meaning in arabic the person who understand well , adj

you look not..

but you have google if you want ....i can post topic about it .

Well ok you can google it if you want. As far as I know there is also a Norse god called Ullr. The Vikings can be traced back to India, im not sure but Arab civilisation may have some links to it as well, or it may just be coincedence.

Also one of our gods has one eye..... 😛

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Pre-islamic royalty, such as egyptian pharaohs had many wives and concubines. But I may be speaking out of context, as I didn't read back that far in the thread.

Oh I see.

I was refering to the ordinary people of pre-islamic Arabia. According to Qur'an man can have up to 4 wifes.

My initial point was that this was not practiced in the Arabia before Muhammad.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh I see.

I was refering to the ordinary people of pre-islamic Arabia. According to Qur'an man can have up to 4 wifes.

My initial point was that this was not practiced in the Arabia before Muhammad.

I have understood this polygamy factor in Islam in this way: Yes, before Muhammad, such a thing called "polygamy" did not exist. Islam came and attached a name to a practice that was apparent before. While married, men and women both were, as modern society would call them "unfaithful."

What is really meant by allowing the four wives? According to an Islam scholar (Abdullah Yusuf Ali), there are two reasons why a man would leave a wife: economic reasons or because other women/woman. The latter is resolved by having more than one wife. That most certainly does not mean that you must. If you choose to have more than one wife, then you MUST treat them exactly as you are treating the first.. economically, physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually etc etc etc.... We all know that is <i>impossible</i>, just try dating two people at the same time. It is highly unlikely. Therefore, polygamy is allowed to limit the men from cheating on their wives on continuous basis, although, the rules set for it are very unlikely to accomplish.

Hope that made sense.

Originally posted by SamiKismet
I have understood this polygamy factor in Islam in this way: Yes, before Muhammad, such a thing called "polygamy" did not exist. Islam came and attached a name to a practice that was apparent before. While married, men and women both were, as modern society would call them "unfaithful."

That might be true or it might not be. Its an excuse that conquerors make throughout history is that they are trying to civilise the people they are oppressing. There was a Persian king who said that Arab women were chaste. I simply think that this something that was invented by muslim historians. Interestingly enough there was a mulsim who traveled and met the Vikings he said something similar as well. 🙄

Originally posted by SamiKismet
[B
What is really meant by allowing the four wives? According to an Islam scholar (Abdullah Yusuf Ali), there are two reasons why a man would leave a wife: economic reasons or because other women/woman. The latter is resolved by having more than one wife. That most certainly does not mean that you must. If you choose to have more than one wife, then you MUST treat them exactly as you are treating the first.. economically, physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually etc etc etc.... We all know that is <i>impossible</i>, just try dating two people at the same time. It is highly unlikely. Therefore, polygamy is allowed to limit the men from cheating on their wives on continuous basis, although, the rules set for it are very unlikely to accomplish.

Hope that made sense. [/B]

Well that just sound apologetic . If you're a man you can have more than one wife you dont need a special reason. Its nonsense.