Creation vs Evolution

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me just say that I am inclined to believe that they are just like you are disposed to think that they are not.

Even when factual evidence says otherwise?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I stopped reading here:

This Thomas Heinze person does not know the fundamentals of the topic he is writing about. I read no more so I don't even know what side of the debate he is on.......but there is no such thing as "super-natural" in science. Everything that exists is natural. If God exists......God is natural. If flying hippos exist.......flying hippos are natural. If ghosts exist, ghosts are natural.

How the hell can someone sit down and write articles the length of what you have posted when they do not even know the very basics of the topic they are discussing?

There is a contrast between that which is natural and that which is supernatural. For example have you ever heard of the term "normal" and "paranormal?" Well the antithesis of natural things are supernatural things or "spiritual" things.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

There is a natural man (those who are not born again) and there is a spiritual man (those who are born again). There are physical things and their are spiritual things. There is human wisdom and then there is the wisdom of God. Natural-spiritual. It is just a contrast.

You do not have to be born again to be spiritual.

Originally posted by Regret
I believe both.

Creation does not preclude evolution, and vice versa. Evolution has been shown to be capable of manipulation by man. Given this, a creator could have used evolution as the tool of creation. The scientific support for evolution should lead an individual that believes in creation to assume that it played some role in creation.

You mean I spent all that time showing how God created the universe and everything in it and you still come to the conclusion that He could have used evolution? God doesn't need the hypothesis of evolution to create, He is God. God spoke all things into existence and all things suddenly appeared, not gradually over eons of years. That is a lie of the devil to deceive people.

As far as mechanics here is how God did it:

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.

God speaks and things "be" "exist" or "come into being." That explains why there are no transitional fossil forms. All life came into being suddenly or instantaneously.

More examples of God speaking things into existence:

Genesis 1:3
Then God said , “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Genesis 1:6
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”

Genesis 1:9
Then God said , “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:11
Then God said , “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said , “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

Genesis 1:20
Then God said , “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”

Genesis 1:24
Then God said , “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said , “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You mean I spent all that time showing how God created the universe and everything in it and you still come to the conclusion that He could have used evolution? God doesn't need the hypothesis of evolution to create, He is God. God spoke all things into existence and all things suddenly appeared, not gradually over eons of years. That is a lie of the devil to deceive people.

[B]As far as mechanics here is how God did it:

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.

God speaks and things "be" "exist" or "come into being." That explains why there are no transitional fossil forms. All life came into being suddenly or instantaneously.

More examples of God speaking things into existence:

Genesis 1:3
Then God said , “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Genesis 1:6
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”

Genesis 1:9
Then God said , “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:11
Then God said , “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:14
Then God said , “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

Genesis 1:20
Then God said , “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”

Genesis 1:24
Then God said , “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said , “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” [/B]

So you limit God in his method of creation?

I tell my son to make a sandwich and he does. I can say that by my word a sandwich was created/came into being/exists, it is an accurate statement. "Then I said, “Let there be a sandwich”; and there was a sandwich." All you have is the statement that God said this we will create, and then it is. It does not state unequivocally that there was not a process between the statement and the existence.

The term instantaneous is not used in the Bible, and I see no reason to believe that the Bible description of creation necessitates instantaneous creation. Your interpretation is merely that, an interpretation, and as I have stated does not have unequivocal Biblical support.

Originally posted by Regret
So you limit God in his method of creation?

I tell my son to make a sandwich and he does. I can say that by my word a sandwich was created/came into being/exists, it is an accurate statement. All you have is the statement that God said this we will create, and then it is. It does not stating unequivocally that there was not a process between the statement and the existence.

The term instantaneous is not used in the Bible, and I see no reason to believe that the Bible description of creation necessitates instantaneous creation. Your interpretation is merely that, an interpretation, and as I have stated does not have unequivocal Biblical support.

Using your logic the Bible does not state that there was a process neither. In fact there is overwhelming support that creation was instantaneous than there is that it occurred over a proctracted period of time as evolution hypothesizes.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Using your logic the Bible does not state that there was a process neither. In fact there is overwhelming support that creation was instantaneous than there is that it occurred over a proctracted period of time as evolution hypothesizes.

There is no "overwhelming support". 😆

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no "overwhelming support". 😆

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Using your logic the Bible does not state that there was a process neither. In fact there is overwhelming support that creation was instantaneous than there is that it occurred over a proctracted period of time as evolution hypothesizes.

No, there is not Biblical support for a process either. It is a mystery that the Bible does not explain. We cannot Biblically claim we "know" how creation occurred outside what the Bible states. You are the one that jumped in and said it had to be instantaneous, did God say to you "JIA, it was instantaneous"? If he didn't then you don't need to stress over the method, the method is unimportant, what is important is God stated it would occur, and it did. I stated that it is possible that there was a method used, this is not contradictory to the Bible, it merely says "I don't know, so it is possible", and for God all things are possible.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Using your logic the Bible does not state that there was a process neither. In fact there is overwhelming support that creation was instantaneous than there is that it occurred over a proctracted period of time as evolution hypothesizes.

Yeah remember the Bible Were Written by Men who Believed in God. Believers in the bible believed them to have been inspired by God, Regret is right its a mystery how the bible doesnt awnser all but yeah there is a lot of stuff in the bible that is missing. The bible is just made up of a bunch of ancient religious texts that have survived for over 6,000 years they can be other lost books out there saying anything about whatever and we have but it contradicts wat we alredy believe and the catholics consider that there own religion is blasphemy -_-

Originally posted by Regret
No, there is not Biblical support for a process either. It is a mystery that the Bible does not explain. We cannot Biblically claim we "know" how creation occurred outside what the Bible states. You are the one that jumped in and said it [b]had to be instantaneous, did God say to you "JIA, it was instantaneous"? If he didn't then you don't need to stress over the method, the method is unimportant, what is important is God stated it would occur, and it did. I stated that it is possible that there was a method used, this is not contradictory to the Bible, it merely says "I don't know, so it is possible", and for God all things are possible. [/B]

No, here is what you said:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
"...The Bible does not speak as to the method of creation other than who did it, it is not inconceivable that evolution was a tool used by God to create. Also, evolutionary theory doesn't contradict the possibility of other methods of creation. It is merely a description of one scientifically valid method for the creation of various forms of life that we are aware of. "

I am saying that that God did not use satan's lie of evolution to create and you are saying that it is not inconceivable that evolution was a tool used by God to create. Also, evolutionary theory doesn't contradict the possibility of other methods of creation.

^ Regret is saying that you don't know.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, here is what you said:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Regret
"...The Bible does not speak as to the method of creation other than who did it, it is not inconceivable that evolution was a tool used by God to create. Also, evolutionary theory doesn't contradict the possibility of other methods of creation. It is merely a description of one scientifically valid method for the creation of various forms of life that we are aware of. "

I am saying that that God did not use Satan's lie of evolution to create and you are saying that it is not inconceivable that evolution was a tool used by God to create. Also, evolutionary theory doesn't contradict the possibility of other methods of creation.

Show me Biblical support contradicting the possibility of evolution. There is nothing in the Bible to deny the possibility. There is nothing in the Bible that states it is "Satan's lie", that is not found in the Bible, but in the heads of those too proud to accept that their personal interpretations may not be accurate.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ Regret is saying that you don't know.

Yes, that is exactly what I am stating.

JIA, I apologize if the language I used was not language you could comprehend properly.

Originally posted by Regret
Show me Biblical support contradicting the [b]possibility of evolution. There is nothing in the Bible to deny the possibility. There is nothing in the Bible that states it is "Satan's lie", that is not found in the Bible, but in the heads of those too proud to accept that their personal interpretations may not be accurate. [/B]

Romans 1:20-25
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 [COLOR=red]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.[/COLOR]

Through the worship of animals and idols they have changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible (sinful) man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. This also includes the lie of evolution which states that humankind descended from animals (apes and other creatures). Evolutionists everywhere are in essence worshipping and serving the "creature" (apes and other animals that they allege that we descended from) rather than the Creator (God) who is blessed forever.

Since evolution is a lie then it must be of satan because he is the father (originator) of all lies.

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil , and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it .

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]...Through the worship of animals and idols they have changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible (sinful) man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. This also includes the lie of evolution which states that humankind descended from animals (apes and other creatures). Evolutionists everywhere are in essence worshipping and serving the "creature" (apes and other animals that they allege that we descended from) rather than the Creator (God) who is blessed forever.

🙄 I do not worship.

If someone alleges that we "are animals" then you fall under this category as well.

Through the worship of animals and idols they have changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible (sinful) man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. This also includes the lie of evolution which states that humankind descended from animals (apes and other creatures). Evolutionists everywhere are in essence worshipping and serving the "creature" (apes and other animals that they allege that we descended from) rather than the Creator (God) who is blessed forever.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Romans 1:20-25
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 [COLOR=red]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.[/COLOR]

Through the worship of animals and idols they have changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible (sinful) man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. This also includes the lie of evolution which states that humankind descended from animals (apes and other creatures). Evolutionists everywhere are in essence worshipping and serving the "creature" (apes and other animals that they allege that we descended from) rather than the Creator (God) who is blessed forever. [/B]

That is not necessarily the interpretation of that scripture. Man prior to the time of its writing worshipped animals and idols oftentimes. This is what the verses are referencing, not evolution. Evolution is stating that all creation other than man is below man, this is not worshipping animals, in fact I would state that if anything evolution puts animals on a lower pedestal than the Bible does. Evolution does not lower God in any manner, man is unable to begin the process of evolution, only God could do that.

Show me an accurate denial of the possibility of evolution in Biblical verse.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If someone alleges that we "are animals" then you fall under this category as well.

Through the worship of animals and idols they have changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible (sinful) man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. This also includes the lie of evolution which states that humankind descended from animals (apes and other creatures). Evolutionists everywhere are in essence worshipping and serving the "creature" (apes and other animals that they allege that we descended from) rather than the Creator (God) who is blessed forever.

You and I are both animals. You can live in a fantasy if you like, but you are then blind to the truth.

Proverbs 14:7
Go from the presence of a foolish man, When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge.