Creation vs Evolution

Started by Imperial_Samura221 pages
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
JIA responded to Alliance, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he was also responding to me. Tsk tsk. I think an angel just died.

If I clapped it might come back to life... but my hands are all the way down there, on the keyboard... I can't be bothered. I wonder... where do Angels go when they die...

Especially considering the notable lack of publications. Oh and JIA before you provide us with Ross' lovely CV again perhaps you should figure out what the words "largely unpublished" mean with regard to scientific and academic achievements; of which Ross has very few.

Indeed, there seems to be a certain kind of academic whose fame is built on merely being a guest speaker rather then putting there theories down on paper to allow the scientific/humanities community to have a shot at them.

Tis easy to be sinless when one claims to be above sin. Tis easy to be right when one doesn't give ones opponents the chance to rebut ones claims in writing.

JIA responds sporadically.

As you can see though, he is not interested in being a good citizen, as he refuses to respond to counter-arguments.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
This should be good.

So it claims. And it is rather dodgy argument the whole "wouldn't the Bible paint its figures better? The fact they are warts and all makes the Bible honest."

I remember, when we did our mock trials in my High School Legal studies class. One of the occasions when I was prosecutor and a classmate was a defence figure he used a similar argument - something about how the defendant was so honest about his fallibility's it made it hard to believe he could be lying about yadda yadda yadda. Suffice to say I enjoyed dealing with that part of it, because that isn't actually proof of anything.

Historical records of full of "honest" portrayals delivered without "bias" - and it is a joke. Likewise the whole "the Bible is exceptional as it doesn't give easy answers and is so strict" - whoever writes that clearly knows little about ancient religion, because they weren't all sunshine and lollipops.

The Bible doesn't give easy answers? Funny, I know little easier then "It doesn't matter how bad you have been simply believe in Jesus and everything will be fine" - yes, that is terribly stringent.

Silly rabbit, when will you ever learn? A claim can't validate itself by claiming it is true. It requires proof to do that. The fact the Bible claims it is true and the word of God is irrelevant, unless equal weight be given to the Koran. And the texts of Gurus. Hell, Ganesh wrote some epic poetry with his broken tusk.

But none of them get kudos for claiming they are true.

[B]4) Its Miracles:

So it claims. Of course this brushes over the facts that aren't supported historically or scientifically (creation, flood, exodus and so on.)

And witnesses. It is once again easy to come up with witnesses for acts when the account is written many years after the so called event. I can sit here know and claim all sorts of things about my family, chuck in some common Irish/English and Scandinavian names... and who can argue?

Of course this has nothing to do with some Roman's cherry picking religious texts to get something cohesive... does it? Everyone always forgets all the Books that were considered and didn't make it in.

As well as the variations and contradictions between OT and NT. But we have another failsafe clause here don't we - Jesus updated the OT rules, so it isn't contradiction.

Historical fiction does the same. As does the Iliad. And numerous other Greek mythological stories. And the Koran, and Hindu texts. And Egyptian myths.

That is like saying a Tom Clancy novel is exceptional because he mentions Paris and the Farm.

Oops - doubling up there. Claims verify claims because they claim they are true.

Easy to make prophesies when we are relying on texts written after Moses.

Funny, because historical consensus is that the Hindu faith predated Mosaic religion as the first organised religion by at least a couple of hundred years.

The rest of this point - conjecture and personal aggrandisement - The Bible has been the most loved or hated book! Oooooo, special. Not really.

I love the way you make out it was the power of the Bible, not the acts of fantastical Europeans, that can be accounted for the conversion of people like the Celts.

I guess they take after the romantic view of history, not the "Christians killing and spreading disease and obliterating culture after culture" kind of history.

Biased and inaccurate reports, JIA, don't help your claims. [/B]

As I so eloquently stated before (relative to another scholar) I reiterate for this opportune occasion.

"At minimum, at least match what Dr. DeWitt (in this case Dr. Hugh Ross) has accomplished academically and scientifically then come back to this forum and demean and belittle him and his achievments."

👆

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
As I so eloquently stated before (relative to another scholar) I reiterate for this opportune occasion.

"At minimum, [B]at least match what Dr. DeWitt (in this case Dr. Hugh Ross) has accomplished academically and scientifically then come back to this forum and demean and belittle him and his achievments."

👆 [/B]

I don't see why you are allowed to use someone to prove your point despite lacking such credentials yourself, but others aren't allowed to object unless they do have them

Double standards me thinks.

And I refuted by giving you a list of scientists far more decorated, evidenced and published who you totally failed to acknowledge.

I have studied more then to have developed necessary skills of assessment and analysis of sources. The above "why the Bible should be believed" is something I have seen before, both here and elsewhere. It is far from perfect, full of rational and logical and academic holes and so on. Essentially the most basic ideas of a pro-Christian not well supported by... oh, you know, reality. I voiced common and valid problems with it. Instead of refuting you have gone and dug up a quote from an argument you refused to participate in beyond a certain point.

Without credentials you shouldn't be able to object to evolution at all... yet you do. Go and deal with that list I posted (which you refused to, instead calling me biased) and then we might get somewhere. Otherwise be aware you are simply committing the very crime you are (unjustly) accusing everyone else of.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
As I so eloquently stated before ([/I]

👆

Baby Jesus condemns masturbation.

Originally posted by Alliance
JIA responds sporadically.

As you can see though, he is not interested in being a good citizen, as he refuses to respond to counter-arguments.

He refuses to be intelligent too. But then again, most posters on this forum refuse that quality too.

Then again, people see the world in different ways.

There are multiple acceptable answers, but ther are also many unacceptable ones.

Its all shades of grey.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Baby Jesus condemns masturbation.

Jealousy I bet.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Jealousy I bet.

jealousy? of your hand or mine?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
jealousy? of your hand or mine?

Hmmmm. Of every bodies I am sure.

Can't have been easy to be the child of an authoritarian puritan (though he only has himself to blame.)

I still wonder (since as always JIA felt compelled not to answer) what would have happened to Jesus if he had said "You know dad, I kind of like being human and don't feel the need to die horribly... I'm out."

Would God have forced him? Made a new son?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Hmmmm. Of every bodies I am sure.

Can't have been easy to be the child of an authoritarian puritan (though he only has himself to blame.)

I still wonder (since as always JIA felt compelled not to answer) what would have happened to Jesus if he had said "You know dad, I kind of like being human and don't feel the need to die horribly... I'm out."

Would God have forced him? Made a new son?

Well, being divine and all, I guess he would have just decided to stop feeling pain, jumped off that cross and shot his impotent disciples the middle finger while he walked off.

But that's just a guess based on my own experience.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, being divine and all, I guess he would have just decided to stop feeling pain, jumped off that cross and shot his impotent disciples the middle finger while he walked off.

But that's just a guess based on my own experience.

I'll have to try it myself, I just need some Romans and disciples.

For some reason, a literary one, an alternate history were Jesus rebels seems like it could be an interesting story.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I don't see why you are allowed to use someone to prove your point despite lacking such credentials yourself, but others aren't allowed to object unless they do have them

Double standards me thinks.


Notwithstanding that it wouldn't be an insurmountable task to match either Ross or DeWitt's scientific credentials or number of publications and their resultant cumulative impact factor. Even easier a task to match their relevant credentials to evolutionary biology: which by my count register a big old zero. I think we all established a while ago that JIA is a hypocrite.

I was feeling relatively lazy so I just went to the Wikipedia "Evolutionary biologist." entry.

* Charles Darwin
* James F. Crow
* Richard D. Alexander
* Theodosius Dobzhansky
* Niles Eldredge
* R.A. Fisher
* Stephen Jay Gould
* J.B.S. Haldane
* Ernst Haeckel
* W.D. "Bill" Hamilton
* Daniel Janzen
* Motoo Kimura
* Jean-Baptiste Lamarck
* Richard Levins
* Richard Lewontin
* Gustave Malécot
* Pierre Louis Maupertuis
* Ernst Mayr
* John Maynard Smith
* Robert Trivers
* Alfred Russel Wallace
* August Weismann
* George C. Williams
* Allan Wilson
* Edward Osborne Wilson
* Sewall Wright
* Carl Woese

Unless JIA intends to "at minimum, at least match what the above scientists have accomplished academically and scientifically" then everytime he "demeans and belittles their achievements" by referring to the abundance or research, evidence and fact of evolution as "farce" he shows his inherent hypocrisy.

For reference: Ernst Mayr
Authored/co-authored over 600 journal articles in peer-reviewed scientific publications.
http://www.discoverlife.org/who/CV/Mayr,_Ernst.html
Online CV of his numerous positions, credentials and other authorships.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Notwithstanding that it wouldn't be an insurmountable task to match either Ross or DeWitt's scientific credentials or number of publications and their resultant cumulative impact factor. Even easier a task to match their relevant credentials to evolutionary biology: which by my count register a big old zero. I think we all established a while ago that JIA is a hypocrite.

I was feeling relatively lazy so I just went to the Wikipedia "Evolutionary biologist." entry.

* Charles Darwin
* James F. Crow
* Richard D. Alexander
* Theodosius Dobzhansky
* Niles Eldredge
* R.A. Fisher
* Stephen Jay Gould
* J.B.S. Haldane
* Ernst Haeckel
* W.D. "Bill" Hamilton
* Daniel Janzen
* Motoo Kimura
* Jean-Baptiste Lamarck
* Richard Levins
* Richard Lewontin
* Gustave Malécot
* Pierre Louis Maupertuis
* Ernst Mayr
* John Maynard Smith
* Robert Trivers
* Alfred Russel Wallace
* August Weismann
* George C. Williams
* Allan Wilson
* Edward Osborne Wilson
* Sewall Wright
* Carl Woese

Unless JIA intends to "at minimum, at least match what the above scientists have accomplished academically and scientifically" then everytime he "demeans and belittles their achievements" by referring to the abundance or research, evidence and fact of evolution as "farce" he shows his inherent hypocrisy.

Well said.

That's a lot more than the "scientists" he mentioned.

i think this might just sovle this problem after all.i ask you all to wacth this with an open mind http://www.drdino.com/downloads.php pick your topic

Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
i think this might just sovle this problem after all.i ask you all to wacth this with an open mind http://www.drdino.com/downloads.php pick your topic

It's titled "Creation Science Evangelism"... Can we say oxymoron?

I will watch the video's though.

ok thanks you have an lovly day,an i love you

please watch the danger of evolution.it will show the truth about Charles Darwin and later how evolution has no true facts such as the grand canyon did not form slowly,and how plante and animals are alike,dinos did not live billions of years ago,humans did not come from nothing but an human

Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
please watch the danger of evolution.it will show the truth about Charles Darwin and later how evolution has no true facts such as the grand canyon did not form slowly,and how plante and animals are alike,dinos did not live billions of years ago,humans did not come from nothing but an human

The Grand Canyon was formed slowly, if it was made fast, then it would not be an entrenched meander.

The rate of decay of carbon 14 is understood to a high degree, in order for dinosaurs to have been not million of years old, the rate of decay of carbon 14 would have to be erratic, and it is not.