Originally posted by SparrowSavvy
So you've said on a number of occasions, LovelyOne, but I'm still thoroughly unconvinced that that's any more than fan speculation, and reading too much into things.The compass wasn't pointing at Liz, the compass pointed erratically between several (three or more) different places in rather opposing directions. He does not place the ring on during the talk of women being what vexes all men, he takes it right when she leaves the room. The other two rings (one of which has a black stone set into it, coincidentally) are equally as obvious, even in the teaser scene. They're all huge and gaudy.
Ok forget about the ring
the compass was.Why would it point in different places and not be explained one way or another to the audience?...IT WAS explained..but in a very very subtle way(mainly from Tia)..there were various hints and symbolic things telling us that it was her he's after and not just Davy's chest. There is no denying that the chest resembles Liz..and all the 3 men who have ever been involved romantically with her are FIGHTING OVER IT...and it resembles exactly what happened in the movie..Will lost the key to it because he was more concerned about his father instead of Liz (he wanted the chest to save his dad) Norringiton was only concerned about saving face when it comes to Liz..(norrington wants the and the heart to save face with the EITC) why would the compass suddenly work for Jack and point to the chest when Liz is basically sitting on the chest resembling the REAL chest/heart he wants..why would it only work right there for him? and then again later when he looked at the ship?
All the ideas for saving the ship from the Kraken came from Will. Jack redeemed his fleeing the ship by returning and being the one to complete the plan. The plan was not his, so I think some credit should go to Will here. Going back to help did win Jack points, but I'm still not convinced that it was only, or even mostly for Elizabeth's sake.
If it was for everyone else then the scene wouldn't revolved so heavily around Liz and Jack..and that whole curiosity conversation where they were telling each other how to best win one another over wouldn't have been needed in the movie..They portrayed Jack in a typically god like manner to Elizabeth..he looks down at her with a reassuring look as if to confirm that he is there for her..she clings onto the leg of her hero..and later on..there is more proof that he is thinking about saving only her. Whilst everyone else is looking at will talking about leaving the ship..there is a long shot with ALL of the characters..everyone is looking at Will..but Jack is looking RIGHT at Liz..deciding that he wants to stay there for her..seconds later there is more evidence that he would have stayed..Liz chains him up but he actually hears the gingle of the chain..stops kissing and stares at her waiting to see if she will actually do it..she does we hear a loud CLANK and he smiles..meaning he could have escaped but it obviously wasn't on his mind..he wanted to stay there and fight for her...
As for the hat, her entire attire was different from when she was on the merchant ship, so it's more likely that she chose a different disguise so she wouldn't be recognized by the crew of that ship that went ashore. She's wearing different clothes from the 'ghost' scene to when she steps into the tavern when Norrington starts to fight. While being a tricorne, it was not Jack's hat.
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Yes its obviously not the same hat..its a symbolic thing..if it wasn't meant to mean anything then why was there that whole random "Jack trying on hats and leaving unsatisfied moment" JUST BEFORE he meets Liz WEARING a similar hat to his missing one she wears it in every scene with Jack..Towards the end she doesn't have it on...and you know why? because JACK has just won her over..he dies knowing what he wants..he gets his hat back and wears it proudly..he jumps with a massive confidence into the mouth of the kraken.
As for the majority... I know what the majority is for young women, and that's reflected by this forum which seems to be composed of nothing but. The majority in terms of the actual majority of the POTC audience... it's all across the scale, but overall, I've gathered from family and coworkers, and friends alike that Jack/Elizabeth is a no go, and she'll end up with Will. Sparrington and Shipshipper fans are a minority, and I believe that in the end taking all the audience into account, Elizabeth/Jack fans are also a minority, though probably not by much. Sparrington and Shipshipping will remain in the realm of fanfiction, and will not show at all in the movie. A happy ending with Elizabeth and Jack... I think will also remain in fanfiction and dreams.
Ok so lets just ignore their successful "kiss rule" rule that keeps the seperate movie and trilogy gripping..they will just tease everyone with a what if and then say NOPE!..The audience want to see jack get what he wants...he is the main character..almost everywhere I have been on the net/college/workplace people have said that teaser Jack/Liz relationship gripped them..its what makes them want to see the next "is she going to end up with him? I hope so!" We all know how Layah ending up with Hans solo instead of luke is what kept the Star Wars trilogy all the more memorable for the audience..and all the more exciting..
The compass was settling on different places because Liz was on the MOVE..when she comes into his life again we don't actually see him look at it when she;s around him..its only twice where we see it points to her..one obvious and the other not so obvious.
I can understand why Disney are choosing to hint that Jack is after her and vise versa instead of actually telling the audience flat out
They are hinting becuase its still only the middle of the trilogy..its the "what if? possible relationship" moment of the story as a whole..just like the "what if kiss moment" they usually place in the middle of their seperate movies..the script writers have their patterns..they know how to keep an audience gripped and ulitmatley please them in the end.
They have to remember that movie 2 is still movie on its own so they need to confirm raised questions to the audience.. like the compass ...but they dont have to be obvious..YET..
want to know what the most high rated, most watched Pirates of the caribbean DMC clip was on youtube before it was removed?
the Jack/Liz KISS
It was also the most popular when I searched PotC CotbP 😂
Its what the majority audience loved to see.
no one even bothered put up the Will/Liz kiss on youtube...😂 because no one gives a shit about that..or their relationship continuing..really..who the heck is going to be satisfied with that? .Its the fans of that who are in the minority...becasue they are only a minority of the audience who go there to just see him..everyone else goes to see Jack..and if Jack shows he wants something..Jack gets..
The Leia/Han Solo thing is a strange argument to take, seeing as Leia and Luke were siblings, and there should not logically be anything between them.... I could go on about that, but it's another fandom.
On the Isle de la Cruzes, the compass WAS pointing at the chest. Jack happened to be standing in the same direction as the chest relative to Elizabeth. When she sits frustrated, the compass still works for her, turning about just in time for Jack to see the location of the thing, or he knew for certain he wanted the chest as he came 'within range' of the compass, rather than being loathe to claim it as his own. Were it working for Jack and pointing only to Elizabeth... I suppose the chest just happened to be exactly under her at that very moment in the very place she chose to sit down, and he decided that this was the case? It's pointing at Elizabeth, therefore the chest must be exactly there? Maybe it'd be right under her if she were three feet to the left? This is what I see with your reasoning on this.
This makes the compass pointing at Jack after the conversation with Norrington confusing, and can only be explained by saying that after she came to the realization that Jack sold Will for his own safety, this made him not quite the thing she wanted most. There's a bit of inconsistency. The compass was pointing to the chest on the island, otherwise that's the most enourmous and completely unfathomable coincadence I've seen in film this year. Pointing at Jack, she happened to follow him, and he happened to pause at the very spot where the chest was, and when he came close enough to the compass, it turns out it points to Elizabeth, not the chest, but oh she happens to be right on top of it. Not believable.
I suppose it's rather useless attempting any sort of debate with people who aren't willing to see the other side in any way shape or form. I had been taking your views and opinions into account, despite your radical support theories, I did consider. It seems to be one sided, as you are adamantly against all possibility of my opinion.
trust me once we see the third we will be thinking OH YEAH!! the compass WAS pointing to Liz all along..look Tia mentions it!
there are also confimed spoilers by Disney:
that Will and Davy talk for a while and they both find out they have something in common "Jack sparrow steals their women" so jack WANTS ELIZABETH!..
Oh SparrowSavvy, dont be offended by us! 😄 We are just having fun. Disney has really backed itself into a corner, IMO, there is no good way for this to end, but if Liz ends up with Will, everyone will be a mite disappointed. Come on. It's all about chemistry. haha.
perhaps we ARE totally nuts and just living a dream, but its fun. LOL. And hey, maybe Disney will go fan-fic and get this right.
Disney going fanfic would rock my socks. It certainly would be interesting to see a Jack/Elizabeth happy ending (though... don't we all secretly want our Jack to be single? I suppose there's always Norrington).
But man it's difficult to talk to rabid fangirls sometimes XD ('Why yes, I do think Rufus Shinra is an unhinged pompous prince that doesn't belong with his employees in any relationships.' *gets beaned repeatedly*)
Originally posted by SparrowSavvy
The Leia/Han Solo thing is a strange argument to take, seeing as Leia and Luke were siblings, and there should not logically be anything between them.... I could go on about that, but it's another fandom.
Think though..they made movie 1 without really knowing about making another 2...they knew that if he audience likes hans solo the loveable rogue alot..they will give the girl to that character...Instead of the "safe" one..Everyone loved Hans so they made up the "brother and sister" excuse to allow that to happen.
With PotC its the same..Jack was a VERY risky character to add in..they made it so the girl ended up with the "safe" character..but also gave you a taster of Jack/Liz together..it proved to be well liked..and Jack sparrow is now one of th most loveable rogues in movie history...so they will make the girl end up with that character now that they know its safe to do so.
They cant actually use the brother sister thing becuase they shot themselves in the foot with that one 😂 In movie 1 Will's and Liz's blood didn't match with the medallions..what we have in its place is a Davy/Will possible similarity/alliance
On the Isle de la Cruzes, the compass WAS pointing at the chest. Jack happened to be standing in the same direction as the chest relative to Elizabeth. When she sits frustrated, the compass still works for her, turning about just in time for Jack to see the location of the thing, or he knew for certain he wanted the chest as he came 'within range' of the compass, rather than being loathe to claim it as his own. Were it working for Jack and pointing only to Elizabeth... I suppose the chest just happened to be exactly under her at that very moment in the very place she chose to sit down, and he decided that this was the case? It's pointing at Elizabeth, therefore the chest must be exactly there? Maybe it'd be right under her if she were three feet to the left? This is what I see with your reasoning on this.
even if the compass was slowly leading her to the chest..we never saw it..every time she looked at it it pointed directly at Jack..even the first moment she held it..before Norringin (as I recall)
I never once heard any confirmation that the compass still works for the person once they put it on the floor and stop looking at it..Once again..I think the writers are making it less obvious that Jack wants Liz at this moment..they way he suggests that "yes it does" and the way the camera pans and lingers on those words is a very suggestive moment..it also looks as if its a sneaky message to the audience..the compass is in no ones hands..It sort of trying to hint to US that these two want eachother..it points to jack, to Liz then back to Jack again then to liz...
This makes the compass pointing at Jack after the conversation with Norrington confusing, and can only be explained by saying that after she came to the realization that Jack sold Will for his own safety, this made him not quite the thing she wanted most. There's a bit of inconsistency. The compass was pointing to the chest on the island, otherwise that's the most enourmous and completely unfathomable coincadence I've seen in film this year. Pointing at Jack, she happened to follow him, and he happened to pause at the very spot where the chest was, and when he came close enough to the compass, it turns out it points to Elizabeth, not the chest, but oh she happens to be right on top of it. Not believable.
AH now Norrington!..he can SEE what is going on with all the characters..he seems to just know EVERYTHING about their feelings for one another etc. He is quite often giving them a 🙄 look whenever they show denail about what they feel (liz on the pearl and on the beach)
Norrington still fancies his chances with Liz..He has just spotted Liz smirking over what Jack has just suggested to her about sex..he interupts her from her daydream and she looks shocked that he's there..she tries to compose herself..Norrington says to her that she has feelings for Jack and Liz is in a bunch of denail..Now norrington has his chance..he probably knows the compass will probably point at Jack..so makes her question her faith in Jack..and hello the compass points right at him..SCORE 1 for Corrie Norrie
I suppose it's rather useless attempting any sort of debate with people who aren't willing to see the other side in any way shape or form. I had been taking your views and opinions into account, despite your radical support theories, I did consider. It seems to be one sided, as you are adamantly against all possibility of my opinion.
I do accept your opinion...but its clear that Liz resembles the chest. Jack wants it most so he wins it..even the very way he wins it is echoed when he wins Liz over at the end..Tia even suggets that he's after more than one chest..when she questions him about his compass
there's even a hint at the end of movie 2 as to what is going to happen with Liz/Jack next in movie 3..and I have read the confirmed first 57 pages of the draft script..and what we see with the heart/will/Jack/Norrington Jar of dirt at the end happens to Liz at the beginning of movie 3..its to a TEE..
I'm honestly not even a fan girl..The only reason I'm showing interest in this Jack/Liz stuff is because I'm a film studies student who loves spotting hidden meanings in movies..PotC is teeming with them! Especially Jack/Liz ones..and Davy/Will ones Tia/Jack..Tia/Will..Chest/Liz Black spot/Will dog/Jack
I was right when I guessed about the Davy/Will thing after studying certain scenes..people shot me down completley when I first mentioned it but then the director confirmed that it was a factor in the next movie in an interview..So ever since then I haven't stopped 😂
Originally posted by SparrowSavvy
The Leia/Han Solo thing is a strange argument to take, seeing as Leia and Luke were siblings, and there should not logically be anything between them.... I could go on about that, but it's another fandom.Right...but in Star Wars (1977) it was not known that Luke and Leia were siblings...so the possiblity of them being a couple was very real...many a young girl back then wanted to see Luke with Leia..
On the Isle de la Cruzes, the compass WAS pointing at the chest. Jack happened to be standing in the same direction as the chest relative to Elizabeth. When she sits frustrated, the compass still works for her, turning about just in time for Jack to see the location of the thing, or he knew for certain he wanted the chest as he came 'within range' of the compass, rather than being loathe to claim it as his own. Were it working for Jack and pointing only to Elizabeth... I suppose the chest just happened to be exactly under her at that very moment in the very place she chose to sit down, and he decided that this was the case? It's pointing at Elizabeth, therefore the chest must be exactly there? Maybe it'd be right under her if she were three feet to the left? This is what I see with your reasoning on this.
Oh this is so wrong...the compass is pointing to Jack...why else would liz get mad and say the compass doesn't work ...etc....we've been over this many times on several different threads...my brain is tired and just can't point this out anymore...it is not pointing to the chest...I've watched the scene over and over...now, as far as the compass pointing at Liz here - no one is holding it at that particular moment, so in that case it is pointing to the chest...sorry but what was the purpose of the scene with such emphasis on "the compass points to what you want most in this world" then on two seperate occassions the camera shows Jack while Liz is holding the compass....
This makes the compass pointing at Jack after the conversation with Norrington confusing, and can only be explained by saying that after she came to the realization that Jack sold Will for his own safety, this made him not quite the thing she wanted most. There's a bit of inconsistency. The compass was pointing to the chest on the island, otherwise that's the most enourmous and completely unfathomable coincadence I've seen in film this year. Pointing at Jack, she happened to follow him, and he happened to pause at the very spot where the chest was, and when he came close enough to the compass, it turns out it points to Elizabeth, not the chest, but oh she happens to be right on top of it. Not believable.
Not sure what you are getting at here...but did you totally miss the conversation between Norrington and Liz when he says'''It's a curious thing..." why would disney put that in the movie...it is to make the audience aware that there is something going on and developing between Jack and Liz...UGGGHHHH I just can't keep going over this....
I suppose it's rather useless attempting any sort of debate with people who aren't willing to see the other side in any way shape or form. I had been taking your views and opinions into account, despite your radical support theories, I did consider. It seems to be one sided, as you are adamantly against all possibility of my opinion.
Not adamantly against...but you seem to be ignoring the clues...so if we take your considerations into our calculations....the entire movie of POTC 2 was just fill up time...the only parts that counted was Will on the Flying Dutchman...all the flirtatious and hot, sexy scenes between Liz and Jack were just to fill up time...OMG, the movie should have been over in like...45 minutes then....All I have to say is that if Liz and Will end up back together...then the movie did not evolve at all and I will be very disappointed...because the main character and hero always should get the girl (if they are not related)...and IMO and I'm sure bunches and bunches of others...Jack is the main Character and Hero in these films...in that last scene of POTC 2 we see a new Jack..a jack that is serious and has come to realize that there is more to life than material possessions...just look at Gibbs when Jack says "she's only a ship, mate." OMG....she's only a ship.....hasn't Jack sold his soul for the Black Pearl...didn't he go through great extremes to get the Pearl in POTC 1...now, all of a sudden he's like "it's only a ship, mate...while looking at LIZ ....and I've said this time and time again...what is the purpose of having Liz climb up and hold onto Jack's leg ...when she should have ran down and been there for Will when he drops from the cargo net....it's a curious thing.....I'm sorry but if Disney just passing this off as if nothing ever happened between these two...then I guess I will forever be watching Liz and Jack on the Pearl in POTC 2...and forget all about POTC 3...i'm not a film studies person like Lovelyone...who knows you may could classify me as a fan girl...but I just Love Jack Sparrow...and I think he has great chemistry with Elizabeth Swann....
Right...but in Star Wars (1977) it was not known that Luke and Leia were siblings...so the possiblity of them being a couple was very real...many a young girl back then wanted to see Luke with Leia..
Oh this is so wrong...the compass is pointing to Jack...why else would liz get mad and say the compass doesn't work ...etc....we've been over this many times on several different threads...my brain is tired and just can't point this out anymore...it is not pointing to the chest...I've watched the scene over and over...now, as far as the compass pointing at Liz here - no one is holding it at that particular moment, so in that case it is pointing to the chest...sorry but what was the purpose of the scene with such emphasis on "the compass points to what you want most in this world" then on two seperate occassions the camera shows Jack while Liz is holding the compass....
Not sure what you are getting at here...but did you totally miss the conversation between Norrington and Liz when he says'''It's a curious thing..." why would disney put that in the movie...it is to make the audience aware that there is something going on and developing between Jack and Liz...UGGGHHHH I just can't keep going over this....
"Yes its obviously not the same hat..its a symbolic thing..if it wasn't meant to mean anything then why was there that whole random "Jack trying on hats and leaving unsatisfied moment" JUST BEFORE he meets Liz WEARING a similar hat to his missing one she wears it in every scene with Jack..Towards the end she doesn't have it on...and you know why? because JACK has just won her over..he dies knowing what he wants..he gets his hat back and wears it proudly....." (lovelyone)
Okay, I'm fully convinced of the compass theory. The compass is an integral part of the story, and considering how often it's used, how often it's just mentioned, how it's basically the reason the three characters reuinite in the first place, it's important. And everything it points to is important, and if it points to Jack when Liz holds it (as it does) then we should believe it. If Tia says the compass isn't working for Jack because he wants something he's unsure of or just doesn't know how to get it, you can bet that means he really wants something besides the chest. Even when I watched it at the movie theater and she said that, I thought, "Oh! He'll get a girlfriend! He wants to be loved!!!!!!"
But the hats. Yeah. I don't think this is an integral part of the story. The only time the hat is brought up in the first movie is when Jack wants his things back from Norrington, and any one of us, materialistic or not, would want our gun, compass that points to what we want, and our hat back. But in the second movie, the whole time, does Jack really make that big a deal out of his hat? He's too busy being chased by cannibals, flirting with Liz, and messing with Will and Norrington's minds.
The hat scene, to me, is just comic relief. Jack steals things. Jack may have a hole in his heart that won't let him be satisfied by material possessions, but I will bet anything this scene was written to entertain more than anything else. Anyway, okay, Liz shows up with a hat, the exact article of clothing Jack was looking for. But pretty much all of us have agreed that he's not in love with her when she first shows up. I think most everyone has said it's the "curiosity" scene where he first realizes he's falling for her. Wouldn't that be the time to bring up the hat?
I dont understand how the main and most loved character of a summer block buster getting the girl is mere fanfic?? That would mean almost every other movie on the planet is fanfic 😂 LOL. Ok what ever you say SparrowSavvy
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About the compass on the beach when no one was holding it..I have been taught in film studies that the directors/writers often add in moments where they are trying to tell you what is going on but its flying straight over the main characters heads..And I think that whole compass resting between them, In no ones hands (in the audiences hands) Is telling you that everyone wants these 2 to get together..it doenst just stay in one spot it sort of suggestivly points from Jack to Liz..then Liz to Jack and then back to Liz again..its like its letting us in on the secret it's sort of like making a face behind someones back and they have no idea..but the person in front does (the audience)
Originally posted by willofthewisp
"Yes its obviously not the same hat..its a symbolic thing..if it wasn't meant to mean anything then why was there that whole random "Jack trying on hats and leaving unsatisfied moment" JUST BEFORE he meets Liz WEARING a similar hat to his missing one she wears it in every scene with Jack..Towards the end she doesn't have it on...and you know why? because JACK has just won her over..he dies knowing what he wants..he gets his hat back and wears it proudly....." (lovelyone)Okay, I'm fully convinced of the compass theory. The compass is an integral part of the story, and considering how often it's used, how often it's just mentioned, how it's basically the reason the three characters reuinite in the first place, it's important. And everything it points to is important, and if it points to Jack when Liz holds it (as it does) then we should believe it. If Tia says the compass isn't working for Jack because he wants something he's unsure of or just doesn't know how to get it, you can bet that means he really wants something besides the chest. Even when I watched it at the movie theater and she said that, I thought, "Oh! He'll get a girlfriend! He wants to be loved!!!!!!"
But the hats. Yeah. I don't think this is an integral part of the story. The only time the hat is brought up in the first movie is when Jack wants his things back from Norrington, and any one of us, materialistic or not, would want our gun, compass that points to what we want, and our hat back. But in the second movie, the whole time, does Jack really make that big a deal out of his hat? He's too busy being chased by cannibals, flirting with Liz, and messing with Will and Norrington's minds.
The hat scene, to me, is just comic relief. Jack steals things. Jack may have a hole in his heart that won't let him be satisfied by material possessions, but I will bet anything this scene was written to entertain more than anything else. Anyway, okay, Liz shows up with a hat, the exact article of clothing Jack was looking for. But pretty much all of us have agreed that he's not in love with her when she first shows up. I think most everyone has said it's the "curiosity" scene where he first realizes he's falling for her. Wouldn't that be the time to bring up the hat?
Why oh why Is Liz's hat completely different to the first one she wears on the ship and then we see her sporting a new one that looks just like Jack's old one right after he has just left feeling uncomfortable without his beloved hat and then there is the fact she wears it right up until after he wins her over..and THEN its absent...and THEN Jack gets it back..he knows he has what he wants and then of course there is the dog with his bone after the credits (in his purgatory)..more symbolism to match up with that.
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...I'm sorry but in my opinion there is too much continuality and persistance with this whole hat/liz thing throughout the movie to suggest that its all just meaningless comic relief.
If that scene was all meaningless comic relief then it would have been a random thing to place in the movie..I't wouldn't be needed in there at all..even Jack losing his hat wouldn;t be needed in there at all...I didn't even find it all that funny to be honest..I was like WTF? why is this randomness in here..why is he being so picky with hats..why did he even lose his hat in the first place? But then when you see what happens next in the movie with him and Liz.. its all clear as to why they botherd adding that whole little missing hat sub plot into the movie..its all to add to the hints..of Jack and Liz..
And when you think that the hat resembles Liz.. him losing it earlier on and not going back for it..means that he loves his hat but its not what he thinks should be more important at the moment..whats important is his own life..but later on it is teased infront of him..and then he GETS IT BACK.
Its just like how his compass is pointing to Liz from the very beginning..but he doesnt think that it should be the most important thing to him so he continues persuing the means to save his own skin...and ignores what his heart is telling him to do...but then Liz is teased infront of him and he begins to realize what is more important..his own well being..or her..he proves that its her and he WINS HER OVER..