Obi-Wan could last a while, Soresu gives him that advantage, he can easily block Lightning as shown in AOTC.
You've yet to indicate how. Obi-Wan's sole strength is his defensive combat style. Yet, as I told you, Dooku plowed right through it the moment he used the Force.
Yes, he was fighting Anakin,
Anakin was the threat. Obi-Wan was not. Dooku wasn't even giving his full attention to Obi-Wan, as he was trying his hardest to not get owned by Anakin's powerful assaults.
but he didn't "manhandle" Obi-Wan till Anakin was on the ground,
Go back and look at the scene again. Dooku kicked Anakin back, while tossing Obi-Wan across the room. Obi-Wan was already unconscious, but Dooku dropped the walkway on him to make sure he stayed that way.
He handled them both simultaneously in that brief moment.
with another person beating on you, you can't use the Deadly Force Powers without dangerous risks.
Dooku attacked Obi-Wan at the exact moment that he kicked Anakin out of the fight. He handled them both during that brief moment. And it should be noted that Anakin > Obi-Wan and Anakin > Grievous. And Dooku managed to handle that for a little while.
As said, Sidious may be stronger, but while fighting 3 people at once, he will need to keep the other 2 off, not an easy task.
Excuse me? Not an easy task? Qui-Gon isn't even a factor in this duel. Sidious would obliterate him either with the Force or with a few saber swings. Obi-Wan and Grievous don't have a chance when Sidious uses the Force.
I never doubted that Sidious was stronger, I pointed out that he would just last against him, with the other 2 beating on him
Alright, I have to go through this again.
Obi-Wan is the most powerful opponent here that Sidious has to face. We've seen that Dooku (Sidious's inferior) put Obi-Wan out of the fight with a single Force-based assault. Sidious can thusly do the same, and even quicker.
Qui-Gon and Grievous are no match for him - not even together.
What makes you think Sidious will take the biggest threat down first? In the battle with the other 4, he took the weak ones down, not Mace, and he would obviously want to take Grievous down, as this is the Powerful Acrobatic one that fought 5 Jedi with only 2 Sabers, without taking a hit
Because, unfortunately, Obi-Wan is the most powerful of these three. Grievous can't use the Force at all. Sidious would most likely take priority and put those two out of the fight. Then he'd go and pwn Grievous.
Sidious as far as I know, never was shown using Force Crush or Grip, differant Powers are known by differant users. Where did Mace learn his from? They learned them on their own I'm sure
Krieger, Sidious is the most powerful and experienced Dark Side user that we've seen in the movies. It is only logical that he knows all of the assaults that his apprentices (y'know, the guys who learn from him) know.
For you to say that he didn't know them is complete bull.
Yes, I know about the Lightsaber thing, but Obi-Wan would be destroyed by this Grievous, who moved incredibly quick, with Reflexes better than a Jedis
No. Grievous's reflexes are better than those of a human. Obi-Wan and Jedi like him can use the Force to enhance their reflexes, strength, and speed.
The only time that Grievous was winning was when he engaged Obi-Wan in unarmed combat.
You do realise that Obi-Wan was straining to do that Force Push that did him in, Sidious again can not pull off dangerous Powers unless he wants to get Sliced open by one of the 6 Flying Lightsabers
I'm beginning to wonder where your sense of logic is.
Palpatine is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. What strains Obi-Wan won't strain Sidious, who lifted gigantic repulsorpods with ease.
Face it. Sidious > Obi-Wan (in everything) by a mile.
Yes Sidious was better than them all, cause we actually got to see them fight, it was just bad screening on Lucas' part, no matter how skilled you are, 1 stab won't kill you if you are, unless you want to say he just beat weak losers, then his potential wasn't realised. Since Lucas' bad directing is what obviously caused this, I'll go with the Theory that they were in a "OH SH**!" mode
You can think what you want. They lost because they sucked compared to him and Mace.
You do realise that Yoda uses a tiny Lightsaber, and is himself small, Obi-Wan casually let his Lightsaber absorb Dooku's in AOTC(and yes, Sidious is more powerful, Obi-Wan might actually have to try)
Yoda is capable of superhuman strength that puts even Grievous to shame. He is able to break all of the saber locks against Dooku, who is capable of blocking overhanded swings by Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously with one hand.
And Sidious blasted his lightsaber from his hand.
Obi-Wan is not more skilled, as Grievous knows all forms of Lightsaber combat, has Robotic Circuitry telling his brain what to do, and has 4 Arms. Again, the reason he lost was because of that Lung damage (and more crap on Lucas' part, but that's not Canonical)
The lung damage had nothing to do with it. Grievous wasn't running out of breath.
He lost because the movies showed that Obi-Wan was the more skilled swordsman.
Your arguements are all based like they're fighting 1 on 1, which they arn't this is 3 on 1 at one time, Sidious is going to be forced into Saber combat, where he will lose, the only one he MIGHT kill is Qui-Gon. Without the ability to channel his Force Powers through his arms, he can't use them.
Sidious will kill Qui-Gon. Then he will kill Obi-Wan and Grievous.
Originally posted by Escape81
You've yet to indicate how. Obi-Wan's sole strength is his defensive combat style. Yet, as I told you, Dooku plowed right through it the moment he used the Force.Anakin was the threat. Obi-Wan was not. Dooku wasn't even giving his full attention to Obi-Wan, as he was trying his hardest to not get owned by Anakin's powerful assaults.
Go back and look at the scene again. Dooku kicked Anakin back, while tossing Obi-Wan across the room. Obi-Wan was already unconscious, but Dooku dropped the walkway on him to make sure he stayed that way.
He handled them both simultaneously in that brief moment.
Dooku attacked Obi-Wan at the exact moment that he kicked Anakin out of the fight. He handled them both during that brief moment. And it should be noted that Anakin > Obi-Wan and Anakin > Grievous. And Dooku managed to handle that for a little while.
Excuse me? Not an easy task? Qui-Gon isn't even a factor in this duel. Sidious would obliterate him either with the Force or with a few saber swings. Obi-Wan and Grievous don't have a chance when Sidious uses the Force.
Alright, I have to go through this again.
Obi-Wan is the most powerful opponent here that Sidious has to face. We've seen that Dooku (Sidious's inferior) put Obi-Wan out of the fight with a single Force-based assault. Sidious can thusly do the same, and even quicker.
Qui-Gon and Grievous are no match for him - not even together.
Because, unfortunately, Obi-Wan is the most powerful of these three. Grievous can't use the Force at all. Sidious would most likely take priority and put those two out of the fight. Then he'd go and pwn Grievous.
Krieger, Sidious is the most powerful and experienced Dark Side user that we've seen in the movies. It is only logical that he knows all of the assaults that his [B]apprentices
(y'know, the guys who learn from him) know.For you to say that he didn't know them is complete bull.
No. Grievous's reflexes are better than those of a human. Obi-Wan and Jedi like him can use the Force to enhance their reflexes, strength, and speed.
The only time that Grievous was winning was when he engaged Obi-Wan in unarmed combat.
I'm beginning to wonder where your sense of logic is.
Palpatine is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. What strains Obi-Wan won't strain Sidious, who lifted gigantic repulsorpods with ease.
Face it. Sidious > Obi-Wan (in everything) by a mile.
You can think what you want. They lost because they sucked compared to him and Mace.
Yoda is capable of superhuman strength that puts even Grievous to shame. He is able to break all of the saber locks against Dooku, who is capable of blocking overhanded swings by Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously with one hand.
And Sidious blasted his lightsaber from his hand.
The lung damage had nothing to do with it. Grievous wasn't running out of breath.
He lost because the movies showed that Obi-Wan was the more skilled swordsman.
Sidious will kill Qui-Gon. Then he will kill Obi-Wan and Grievous. [/B]
Again, you're basing this on 1 vs 1 fights, not 3 vs 1
I say again, Obi-Wan won't have to worry about Palpatine using the Force, with 2 other people beating on Palpatine, Grievous using extremely fast Lightsaber moves, with all 4, and Qui-Gon doing wide slashes at Palpatine, I don't think he'll be able to, since all of the Dark Side powers require your arms to be out
..... Yes Obi-Wan was not the big threat, but he had to kick Anakin down in order for him to do the full move, good luck with Palpatine doing that to Grievous, if you notice, Obi-Wan was not knocked out UNTIL he threw him onto the wall, and if this is inside of Palpatines Office, there is a low chance of him being able to throw him onto anything that will knock him out.
You're failing to realise that he won't get a chance to use his Force attacks, Qui-Gon won't die unless Palpatine wants to get sliced up by the other 2
As said, Obi-Wan won't be taken out by a Crush, as there is nothing to throw him at to knock him out
Qui-Gon is a very capable Swordsmen, he was on par with Mace during TPM. Grievous has 4 Sabers, this is an enclosed area, there won't be enough force on anything to knock the sabers from him, and again remember that this is Grievous BEFORE he gets Crushed by Mace, which got rid of his Acrobatics/Speed that he used to kill the Jedi, I hope you realise in the battle of Hypori, that version of him beat 5 Jedi while only using 2 Sabers, while they all used Force attacks that he EASILY dodged or Blocked
Obi-Wan may have beat the Weakened Grievous, but that was because of his Defensive Style, Palpatine uses Juyo/Ataru, Ataru is a nono against Grievous, as he can block the Slashes and go faster than the Jedi, not to mention it's an Offensive Style, as is Juyo, Grievous is likely to beat him in Lightsaber combat. Obi-Wan isn't exactly the biggest threat, as Non-Weakened Grievous would kill Obi-Wan
Look he may know Grip or not, the move takes time to do, time he doesn't have when facing 3 enemies, Grievous who knows all the Lightsaber Styles, Obi-Wan master of Soresu, and Qui-Gon a master of Ataru, all attacking him
Grievous was much faster than the Jedi he was facing on Hypori, he obviously has better Reflexes
Yes Sidious is more powerful than Obi-Wan, but this is NOT a 1 vs 1 fight, Obi-Wan brought down a giant (don't know what, but he used it to crush the 4 Bodyguard droids) metal box with ease. I never doubted that Sidious was more powerful AGAIN, but I said he would last, 3 Opponents don't give him the time to do Force attacks
Yes, it really showed his skill, when the Jedi held their Lightsabers opposite of where he was attacking, and didn't try to block 🙄 And again, unless you want to admit they were at Youngling level, I suggest you go with the Theory of they were in a "OH SH**!" mode. Skill would be killing them in a few moves, 1 obvious stab is just bad directing
Yoda's hand was hit by the Lightning, that's why he lost his Saber, it had nothing to do with the Power of the Lightning, all of them can block it from a Distance, and up close, it isn't smart for him to do that, as said countless times, there are 3, count them, THREE! People, hitting Palpatine.
Yes the damage led to his defeat, his Internal Organs were damaged, probably his Armor too, he couldn't do the Acrobatics, and match the Speed he had before at Hypori, Obi-Wan would be destroyed by him, it would be like facing a Bigger version of Yoda, wielding 4 Lightsabers. His Defence was all that was needed, Grievous was weakened to the point of Plain Lightsaber skill(though I think he should have just had 3 Sabers lock Obi-Wan's and stabbed him with the fourth, but hey, Obi-Wan had to live, thank you Lucas)
Qui-Gon MIGHT die, if Palpatine gets the chance to attack him with the Force, or have a lucky stab
Again, you're basing this on 1 vs 1 fights, not 3 vs 1
Tell that to AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin. Oh, wait. Didn't Count Dooku own them? Why, yes he did.
Didn't Darth Maul put TPM Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan on the defensive? Why, yes he did. Maul lost only because of his arrogance.
Didn't RotS Anakin and Obi-Wan have a hard time beating Dooku? Why, yes they did. Why did Dooku lose again? Dooku only lost because he faced an opponent who - as the fight progressed - grew more powerful than him.
The point ultimately being that numbers don't always decide the outcome of a fight. Unfortunately for the trio, none of them are as powerful as Sidious. Far from it. So they won't have the victory that Anakin had when he battled Dooku in Revenge of the Sith.
I say again, Obi-Wan won't have to worry about Palpatine using the Force, with 2 other people beating on Palpatine, Grievous using extremely fast Lightsaber moves, with all 4, and Qui-Gon doing wide slashes at Palpatine, I don't think he'll be able to, since all of the Dark Side powers require your arms to be out
Who says that they are already on top of him? For all you know, they could start out 20 - 50 feet away. Who says that they're going to be in arm's length of Palpatine?
Furthermore, Dooku fought off Obi-Wan and Anakin (who is more powerful than Dooku) simultaneously. He choked Obi-Wan while kicking Anakin off-screen, thus proving that he can use the Force in such a situation.
Then, we have Sidious - who is more powerful than Dooku and Anakin. If Dooku can fight off Obi-Wan and a more powerful opponent, and put Obi-Wan out of the fight with such ease - Sidious can as well.
..... Yes Obi-Wan was not the big threat, but he had to kick Anakin down in order for him to do the full move, good luck with Palpatine doing that to Grievous,
The point is: Dooku was able to battle Anakin (who is more powerful than him) while disabling Obi-Wan. At the same time. Sidious will put Obi-Wan out of the fight.
Furthermore, who says he's going to kick Grievous? He could kick Qui-Gon. Or he could blast them both apart with the Force. Force push them both?
if you notice, Obi-Wan was not knocked out UNTIL he threw him onto the wall, and if this is inside of Palpatines Office, there is a low chance of him being able to throw him onto anything that will knock him out.
Obi-Wan was powerless the moment that Dooku used the Force on him. Furthermore, Palpatine's office is full of crap for Palpatine to throw at them. We see that Palpatine is capable of lifting three Senate pods simultaneously with ease. He can easily lift anything in the office - or any of the combatants.
You're failing to realise that he won't get a chance to use his Force attacks, Qui-Gon won't die unless Palpatine wants to get sliced up by the other 2
Oh yeah? If that were the case, the moment Dooku attempted to attack Obi-Wan, Anakin would have owned his ass. But guess what ? It didn't happen.
As said, Obi-Wan won't be taken out by a Crush, as there is nothing to throw him at to knock him out
Palpatine can rip the chairs, the artifacts, the desks, and every other object to batter the hell out of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and keep Grievous busy.
Qui-Gon is a very capable Swordsmen, he was on par with Mace during TPM.
Guess that means Maul is on par with Mace too, then, right? Oh yeah... Doesn't mean a thing. Sidious > Maul. Maul > Qui-Gon - which means Sidious > Qui-Gon.
Grievous has 4 Sabers, this is an enclosed area, there won't be enough force on anything to knock the sabers from him, and again remember that this is Grievous BEFORE he gets Crushed by Mace, which got rid of his Acrobatics/Speed that he used to kill the Jedi, I hope you realise in the battle of Hypori, that version of him beat 5 Jedi while only using 2 Sabers, while they all used Force attacks that he EASILY dodged or Blocked
The four sabers mean jack. Obi-Wan tore right through them, when they were hitting at twenty strikes per second. Sidious would do the same thing. Especially given that Sidious is faster than Obi-Wan, and contains intricate knowledge of General Grievous and his tactics.
Obi-Wan may have beat the Weakened Grievous, but that was because of his Defensive Style, Palpatine uses Juyo/Ataru, Ataru is a nono against Grievous, as he can block the Slashes and go faster than the Jedi, not to mention it's an Offensive Style, as is Juyo, Grievous is likely to beat him in Lightsaber combat. Obi-Wan isn't exactly the biggest threat, as Non-Weakened Grievous would kill Obi-Wan
Oh, really? Then I guess Grievous would own Yoda too, then.
Sidious uses elements of all lightsaber forms. To top it off, he actively uses his Force powers as well.
Look he may know Grip or not, the move takes time to do, time he doesn't have when facing 3 enemies, Grievous who knows all the Lightsaber Styles, Obi-Wan master of Soresu, and Qui-Gon a master of Ataru, all attacking him
No, I'm pointing out the stupidity of your opinion:
Dooku and Anakin know Force grip but Sidious does not.
Let's see:
Sidious = most powerful/experienced Dark Side user in the PT and OT.
Anakin = novice Dark Side user.
Dooku = intermidate Dark Side user.
Hmm.... hmm... I wonder if that means that Sidious would know the same assaults and more... oh, yeah. He does.
Grievous was much faster than the Jedi he was facing on Hypori, he obviously has better Reflexes
Mace owned him and so did Obi-Wan. Point being: they don't mean everything.
Yes Sidious is more powerful than Obi-Wan, but this is NOT a 1 vs 1 fight, Obi-Wan brought down a giant (don't know what, but he used it to crush the 4 Bodyguard droids) metal box with ease. I never doubted that Sidious was more powerful AGAIN, but I said he would last, 3 Opponents don't give him the time to do Force attacks
Obi-Wan dropped the metal crate. He didn't pick it up and drop it, he just destroyed the restraints keeping it in the air. Sidious > Obi-Wan.
Yes, it really showed his skill, when the Jedi held their Lightsabers opposite of where he was attacking, and didn't try to block 🙄 And again, unless you want to admit they were at Youngling level, I suggest you go with the Theory of they were in a "OH SH**!" mode. Skill would be killing them in a few moves, 1 obvious stab is just bad directing
Lucas said that those three died easily because: "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor"
Meaning: Sidious > Tinn, Fisto, and Kolar.
Yoda's hand was hit by the Lightning, that's why he lost his Saber, it had nothing to do with the Power of the Lightning, all of them can block it from a Distance, and up close, it isn't smart for him to do that, as said countless times, there are 3, count them, THREE! People, hitting Palpatine.
Um, no. The lightning hit the blade and knocked ito ut of his hands.
Oh, and how are they going to hit Palpatine while blocking the lightning?
Yes the damage led to his defeat, his Internal Organs were damaged, probably his Armor too, he couldn't do the Acrobatics, and match the Speed he had before at Hypori, Obi-Wan would be destroyed by him, it would be like facing a Bigger version of Yoda, wielding 4 Lightsabers. His Defence was all that was needed, Grievous was weakened to the point of Plain Lightsaber skill(though I think he should have just had 3 Sabers lock Obi-Wan's and stabbed him with the fourth, but hey, Obi-Wan had to live, thank you Lucas)
Nope. Dooku, Grievous's teacher, says that Grievous shouldn't fight unless he has fear and surprise on his side. Sorry to tell you, but Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Dooku, Anakin, and Palpatine are all more powerful than Grievous.
Qui-Gon MIGHT die, if Palpatine gets the chance to attack him with the Force, or have a lucky stab
Nope, they'll all die.
Originally posted by Escape81
Tell that to AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin. Oh, wait. Didn't Count Dooku own them? Why, yes he did.Didn't Darth Maul put TPM Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan on the defensive? Why, yes he did. Maul lost only because of his arrogance.
Didn't RotS Anakin and Obi-Wan have a hard time beating Dooku? Why, yes they did. Why did Dooku lose again? Dooku only lost because he faced an opponent who - as the fight progressed - grew more powerful than him.
The point ultimately being that numbers don't always decide the outcome of a fight. Unfortunately for the trio, [B]none
of them are as powerful as Sidious. Far from it. So they won't have the victory that Anakin had when he battled Dooku in Revenge of the Sith.Who says that they are already on top of him? For all you know, they could start out 20 - 50 feet away. Who says that they're going to be in arm's length of Palpatine?
Furthermore, Dooku fought off Obi-Wan and Anakin (who is more powerful than Dooku) simultaneously. He choked Obi-Wan while kicking Anakin off-screen, thus proving that he can use the Force in such a situation.
Then, we have Sidious - who is more powerful than Dooku and Anakin. If Dooku can fight off Obi-Wan and a more powerful opponent, and put Obi-Wan out of the fight with such ease - Sidious can as well.
The point is: Dooku was able to battle Anakin (who is more powerful than him) while disabling Obi-Wan. At the same time. Sidious will put Obi-Wan out of the fight.
Furthermore, who says he's going to kick Grievous? He could kick Qui-Gon. Or he could blast them both apart with the Force. Force push them both?
Obi-Wan was powerless the moment that Dooku used the Force on him. Furthermore, Palpatine's office is full of crap for Palpatine to throw at them. We see that Palpatine is capable of lifting three Senate pods simultaneously with ease. He can easily lift anything in the office - or any of the combatants.
Oh yeah? If that were the case, the moment Dooku attempted to attack Obi-Wan, Anakin would have owned his ass. But guess what ? It didn't happen.
Palpatine can rip the chairs, the artifacts, the desks, and every other object to batter the hell out of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and keep Grievous busy.
Guess that means Maul is on par with Mace too, then, right? Oh yeah... Doesn't mean a thing. Sidious > Maul. Maul > Qui-Gon - which means Sidious > Qui-Gon.
The four sabers mean jack. Obi-Wan tore right through them, when they were hitting at twenty strikes per second. Sidious would do the same thing. Especially given that Sidious is faster than Obi-Wan, and contains intricate knowledge of General Grievous and his tactics.
Oh, really? Then I guess Grievous would own Yoda too, then.
Sidious uses elements of all lightsaber forms. To top it off, he actively uses his Force powers as well.
No, I'm pointing out the stupidity of your opinion:
Dooku and Anakin know Force grip but Sidious does not.
Let's see:
Sidious = most powerful/experienced Dark Side user in the PT and OT.
Anakin = novice Dark Side user.
Dooku = intermidate Dark Side user.
Hmm.... hmm... I wonder if that means that Sidious would know the same assaults and more... oh, yeah. He does.
Mace owned him and so did Obi-Wan. Point being: they don't mean everything.
Obi-Wan dropped the metal crate. He didn't pick it up and drop it, he just destroyed the restraints keeping it in the air. Sidious > Obi-Wan.
Lucas said that those three died easily because: "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor"
Meaning: Sidious > Tinn, Fisto, and Kolar.
Um, no. The lightning hit the blade and knocked ito ut of his hands.
Oh, and how are they going to hit Palpatine while blocking the lightning?
Nope. Dooku, Grievous's teacher, says that Grievous shouldn't fight unless he has fear and surprise on his side. Sorry to tell you, but Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Dooku, Anakin, and Palpatine are all more powerful than Grievous.
Nope, they'll all die. [/B]
To start, you're not reading what I'm saying correctly. My "stupid opinion" is based on the knowledge of what these Jedi did, and beat using real terms, not 1 vs 1 who is more powerful than who
AoTC Obi-wan was not as good as even Qui-Gon at the time, AoTC Anakin was probably close to TPM Obi-Wan
Yes Anakin somehow grew more Powerful than Dooku in the 30-40 second fight 0.o. Dooku lost to Anakin because his Shien's power was knocking back his Light Makashiattacks, and in the Novel, forced Dooku's Lightsaber onto his shoulder. It had nothing to do with power, it was Lightsaber skill, and Anakin grabbing Dooku's arms
In this case numbers do decide, as it is an Enclosed Enviroment, and all of them can block his powers(unless Grievous get's Gripped, but Palpatine won't get a complete one in, the other 2 will run up, kill him)
I never said they were starting up-close, but they would BECOME up close, someone said this was Palpatines Office battle, but instead of Mace+3 Goons, these 3 guys
Yes, he did kick Anakin off-screen, but he is not capable of doing Lightsaber Combat while using one hand to hold someone in a Crush/Grip, Sidious can't do a complete one, which would take a few seconds too long. Even if Sidious could do that, how would he knock him out? How would he trap him? The room isn't as big and hard as the Invisible Hand
He wasn't fighting Anakin while he threw Obi-Wan, he kicked him down, and then completed the process, Fighting would be engaging in Lightsaber combat. This does not prove ANYTHING, except that Dooku can kick someone back, and use the Force to throw someone across the room
That wasn't exactly a serious comment about kicking Grievous, but whatever. What we were talking about there was Sidious holding Obi-Wan in a Grip, he can definately blast them apart with the Force while he holds his Lightsaber in 1 Hand, and "holds" Obi-Wan in the other. Big deal if he kicks Qui-Gon, there's still the problem of General Grievous, and his 4 Lightsabers of doom slashing Palpatine to bits, since he can no longer defend himself after that
Yes, Palpatine has loads of stuff to throw at them, that won't effect Grievous, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan maybe, while he's throwing those around and missing, Grievous cuts him up, since again we have a situation where Palpatine can't defend himself
Actually yes, Maul WAS on Par with Mace during TPM, but seeing as neither he nor Qui-gon lived till ROTS, Maul advanced beyond that. You seem to still think that I said/think that any of them alone were more powerful than Sidious, I don't and never have, I am thinking about this, as them in a TEAM, singular power makes no differance
Yes, the 4 Sabers mean a lot, he has to somehow block all of those, while using the Force to keep both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon off, or even Grievous himself, when Expert Swordsmen are fighting you at incredible speed, the Dark Side attacks are not usable till they all get seperated, several feet away from him
Grievous could stand against Yoda in his Non-Weakened state, seeing as Yoda doesn't use Force Grip, which finally screwed Grievous over for life, Yoda could not match him for Saber skill, Grievous at that time was like a bigger, stronger, 4 armed version of Yoda without the Force
Look, as said, he is never shown to use it, it DOESN'T matter, even if he does have the ability, he won't be able to use it long enough to disable/Kill one of them
So you're admitting they're as good as a Padawan. Yes Lucas said you had to be a Mace or Yoda to BEAT him, lasting against his attacks is a COMPLETELY differant story. I guess you classify skill as not moving your Lightsaber to block, and just stand there looking at your enemy, as those Jedi did, it had NOTHING to do with skill, and thus, to make up for Lucas crap, I say they were in "OH SH**! mode
Hand, Lightsaber, whoopty doo, he was about 3 feet away, with a short saber, and himself being small, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Grievous can all block it in a similar fashion as to how Mace did, or Obi-Wan did in AOTC
I'm pretty sure I was talking about AFTER they get close, when the Lightning is useless, and even far away, if they seperate, he can only hit 1 or 2 with it, while the other hits him
Yes, he did say that, Grievous can still pull of surprise, he's in acrobatic super speed mode, and he has 2 other friends with him, yes they are more powerful in terms of the Force, but Grievous beats several of them in this form, with Lightsaber skill, he was shown to resist Force attacks, usually dodging them, with ease. Grievous ALONE can not beat Palpatine(maybe, Grievous might be able to pull it off himself as long as he doesn't get Force Crushed)
You're basing arguements off of a differant Grievous, and 1 on 1 fighting, the numbers count here, only 1 of them MIGHT die, it will be either Obi-Wan(with a lucky Force attack)or Qui-Gon(with a Lightsaber strike)
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
In this case numbers do decide, as it is an Enclosed Enviroment,
Isn't this the same place where Sidious killed three Jedi in a matter of seconds? So, as it seems, numbers mean jack shit really. It only means that Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Grievous won't mesh well together trying to attack Sidious at once because of the limited space.
and all of them can block his powers(unless Grievous get's Gripped, but Palpatine won't get a complete one in, the other 2 will run up, kill him)
Prove that Grievous can block his powers, which he can't even block a Force push. Prove that Obi-Wan can block his powers, when he couldn't even block Dooku's attacks twice (one Force push, and then a lift up, and toss). Prove Qui-Gon can block his powers.
Now, if you're saying "l0l we s4w lightn1ng bl0cked by OB1", I'll ask why Sora Bulq can't block lightning:
Obviously this means not everyone can block it. And it gives no reason to suggest Qui-Gon actually can. In any case, Grievous can't block shit. Obi-Wan only fought Dooku for a whopping 22 seconds total (13 seconds if you take out time for talking) while Anakin was with him. And Qui-Gon was dropped in 30 seconds flat by Darth Maul, even while fighting with a "new reserve of strength", and "a ferocity not seen before" (script AND novel).
I'm inclined to believe all he has to do is take out Grievous with the Force, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan will be like a joke. Given Obi-Wan's history of getting tooled by the Force, and Jinn's history of getting owned by a Sith apprentice in 30 seconds.
Originally posted by Advent
Isn't this the same place where Sidious killed three Jedi in a matter of seconds? So, as it seems, numbers mean jack shit really. It only means that Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Grievous won't mesh well together trying to attack Sidious at once because of the limited space.Prove that Grievous can block his powers, which he can't even block a Force push. Prove that Obi-Wan can block his powers, when he couldn't even block Dooku's attacks twice (one Force push, and then a lift up, and toss). Prove Qui-Gon can block his powers.
Now, if you're saying "l0l we s4w lightn1ng bl0cked by OB1", I'll ask why Sora Bulq can't block lightning:
Obviously this means not everyone can block it. And it gives no reason to suggest Qui-Gon actually can. In any case, Grievous can't block shit. Obi-Wan only fought Dooku for a whopping 22 seconds total (13 seconds if you take out time for talking) while Anakin was with him. And Qui-Gon was dropped in [b]30 seconds flat
by Darth Maul, even while fighting with a "new reserve of strength", and "a ferocity not seen before" (script AND novel).I'm inclined to believe all he has to do is take out Grievous with the Force, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan will be like a joke. Given Obi-Wan's history of getting tooled by the Force, and Jinn's history of getting owned by a Sith apprentice in 30 seconds. [/B]
Yes, he did mow down 3 Jedi in a matter of seconds, none of them can compare to this Grievous, plus there's Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, more powerful than those Jedi, and more skilled. I love how no one is addressing how they didn't even TRY to block his attacks
Again, this is Grievous before getting owned by Mace, in the Cartoon series he was shown to dodge Force Pushes with EASE.
I was talking about Lightning when I siad powers..., and if he wants to use a complete Grip, he can get owned by the other 2
I'm glad you try to discredit me by using a 'quote' in leet 🙄 You really should be a lawyer. I'm not sure what your point is? The guy didn't block it, doesn't mean he can't, Obi-Wan is one of the top 5 Strongest Jedi, Qui-Gon might be in the top 10, not sure, but he could block it, the only chance to use Lightning would be right at the start, while there is plenty of distance between them, once they encircle him, he won't have a chance to use it on all of them, he'd get cut up. At that distance, Qui-Gon will be able to block the Lightning, see it coming. It's not a real trick, put up Lightsaber, have it absorb/reflect Lightning, not some big Jedi secret power
Grievous would probably DODGE it, and then put up his Lightsabers in defence.
Qui-Gon was stated as losing so easily because his Ataru needed room he didn't have in that chamber, plus Darth Maul used a cheap move with his Saberstaff (yes, Palpatine would use cheap attacks, but not going to be so easy knocking Qui-gon's head up with a normal saber)
Grips take TIME to kill a person, and Lightning won't work as already stated, while he's gripping Grievous, the other 2 can run up and kill Palpatine
You must take into account that it was Ki-Adi Mundi, who is lightyears lesser than Sidious in the force, and the fact that if he used a to big push he could have wounded his friends. Also, did you not see how much effort Grievous took in trying to dodge it? Jumped away about 50 meters. Dooku also tripped him by grabbing his leg with the force, no way for him to block that, neither can the two other jedi. There is no point in them trying to fight someone with Sidious calibur off with the force, and the only way for them to counter being lifted up from the ground and chocked with the force, is using the force back, which Obi (the most capable of all of them) could not even do against Dooku...
Originally posted by kamikz
You must take into account that it was Ki-Adi Mundi, who is lightyears lesser than Sidious in the force, and the fact that if he used a to big push he could have wounded his friends. Also, did you not see how much effort Grievous took in trying to dodge it? Jumped away about 50 meters. Dooku also tripped him by grabbing his leg with the force, no way for him to block that, neither can the two other jedi. There is no point in them trying to fight someone with Sidious calibur off with the force, and the only way for them to counter being lifted up from the ground and chocked with the force, is using the force back, which Obi (the most capable of all of them) could not even do against Dooku...
Lightyears.....Yes millions of miles lesser
He wouldn't have wounded the other Jedi, he can direct what it hits, Grievous dodged it, he saw it coming. Grievous was much better after that training lesson with Grievous, we're talking about Grievous at his prime, right before Mace crushed him, he dodged a bunch of Force attacks by Shaak Ti and her 2 Jedi friends.
They don't have to fight him with the Force, only Lightsabers, the only chance he will be able to attack ALL of them with the Force is at the start of the fight with Lightning, as they block all of that with their Lightsabers, they get close, encircle him, it comes to a Lightsaber duel, he can't beat them all, blocking 6 Lightsabers all around him would be impossible for him. Grip will only work on 1-2 people, in that time, he's vulnerable, he dies.
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Yes, he did mow down 3 Jedi in a matter of seconds, none of them can compare to this Grievous,
What the hell does Grievous have to do with me defeating your point? And I'm glad you don't address the original point which is what you said along the lines of "numbers do decide in enclosed area", obviously they don't as we see in ROTS. And there's always the fact that Grievous' swinging a couple sabers around at once, and droid bulk won't mesh well with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.
plus there's Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, more powerful than those Jedi, and more skilled.
Qui-Gon is a laugh compared to Sidious. Maul whooped his ass in thirty seconds flat. Obi-Wan? Owned in 13 seconds by Count Dooku. Or if you do want to add the time spent talking, it's a whopping 22 seconds.
Grievous? Uh, he was owned by a Force crush by Windu which took about 1 second to apply.
I love how no one is addressing how they didn't even TRY to block his attacks
Maybe because they couldn't? The obvious is that Sidious' speed tramples that of most other Jedi, and his skill topples them as well. And by the way, Kit Fisto did actually block. Don't believe it?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=js04mjPvGeE
^
Believe it, noob.
Check through from 45 seconds to 49 seconds. Kit Fisto blocks like three or four times. So, what you were making up again? Ah, that's right - bullshit. Agen, Tinn, and Fisto just can't compare that's why they died in seconds. And neither can Qui-Gon, or Obi-Wan. Which is why they were run through in half a minute and under.
Again, this is Grievous before getting owned by Mace, in the Cartoon series he was shown to dodge Force Pushes with EASE.
And? In the cartoon Mace Windu can jump several miles, punch out battle droids with his bare hands, Yoda can lift a f*cking gun the size of an two floor building on his back, and so on. Why doesn't Grievous dodge that wonderful Force push by Obi-Wan? Even in saber combat, one can use Force powers as demonstrated by Dooku, and Obi-Wan.
By the way, Shaak Ti was able to Force push him through an entire wall. And then there's always the fact Grievous got owned by a train. Shaak Ti tied his cape, and he flew away with the train. Great perception Grievous, I'm glad he's so aware.
I was talking about Lightning when I siad powers...,
So, you were referring to a single power when you were used a plural word? Good going, genius. I can see you acheived an A+ in English.
and if he wants to use a complete Grip, he can get owned by the other 2
Yes, because Qui-Gon is going to be able to help any. You fail to realize that this is indeed a small environment, ergo Grievous' big ass and sabers swinging around will not mesh well with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan swinging at the same time. All he has to do is just lift Grievous up, and toss him out the window a la Dooku. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are thus dead, because they cannot compare.
I'm glad you try to discredit me by using a 'quote' in leet 🙄 You really should be a lawyer. I'm not sure what your point is?
That it's not as simple as lift up lightsaber, and block perhaps? As you seem to keep implying. Obviously you cannot always block it.
The guy didn't block it, doesn't mean he can't, Obi-Wan is one of the top 5 Strongest Jedi, Qui-Gon might be in the top 10, not sure, but he could block it,
Yes, because he's in the "Top 10" he'll always be able to block lightning. Where's this logic coming from again? Your ass? Alright. The point is that you cannot always block lightning. Simple as that. To enforce this, I could just as easily say Sidious knocks their lightsabers out of their hands as he did to Yoda.
Really though, lightning doesn't even need to be brought out in this match. Obi-Wan got owned by some simple Force maneuvers, Qui-Gon isn't even as good as Maul, and Grievous is vulnerable completely to the Force.
the only chance to use Lightning would be right at the start, while there is plenty of distance between them, once they encircle him,
Yes, because they'll be able to encircle him before one dies, right? Like they'd be able to circle him at all that is. If Qui-Gon attempts to engage in lightsaber combat, he gets dropped in about 5 seconds. So, I don't know why you keep acting as if he is going to help at all.
he won't have a chance to use it on all of them, he'd get cut up.
All he really has to do is take out either Obi-Wan or Grievous, and they lose. So, why would he need to use it on all of them?
Obi-Wan - as we know - has no Force defense against far superior Force users. Grievous - as we know - has no Force defense against Force users.
At that distance, Qui-Gon will be able to block the Lightning,
Prove it. He doesn't even need to use lightning, it took Dooku three seconds to throw Kenobi around like a ragdoll, the same Obi-Wan that would beat Qui-Gon's maverick ass. And obviously, you cannot just rush in and block lightning as seen by the moron Anakin in AOTC. Plus, you must consider that Palpatine's lightning made Mace give it all of his concentration, how can Qui-Gon defend again? We've seen lightning be able to blast lightsabers out of Yoda's hands.
see it coming. It's not a real trick, put up Lightsaber, have it absorb/reflect Lightning, not some big Jedi secret power
What you're not understand is that it's not always possible to do it as we've seen demonstrated on Sora Bulq. You're just assuming it's a simple 1-2-3, it's not. Qui-Gon is a slow, old moron who can't even contend with Darth Raypark. Obi-Wan? A guy who can't do shit against attacks from superior Force users, likewise with Grievous.
Grievous would probably DODGE it,
Just like he dodged Obi-Wan's in the actual movie? Just like he dodged Mace's Force crush? Quit being so daft. When have we see anyone actually dodge a Force push in something that is actually complete canon? To my knowledge - none. Stuff they cannot replicate in actual material is shit they cannot do. Or are you telling me Mace Windu can jump several miles, fall five thousand feet and magically grab a transport, and punch out an entire army of battle droids with his bare hands?
Qui-Gon was stated as losing so easily because his Ataru needed room he didn't have in that chamber,
Hey, friend, this is what we call bullshit. The novelization never states that. So, where are you getting this from? Your ass? The novelization actually states that Qui-Gon was trying to keep Maul from gaining room. Then again, the novelization also says Maul does a backflip over the pit, which never happened. In any case, this is not stated in the novelization. What material are you reading this from?
And, it actually sounds too damn stupid to say that Qui-Gon needs room; especially when you consider Maul's weapon is two times the size of Qui-Gon's. Yep, Qui-Gon needed room, but a guy who's saber practically takes up the entire width of the area doesn't, lol!
plus Darth Maul used a cheap move with his Saberstaff (yes, Palpatine would use cheap attacks, but not going to be so easy knocking Qui-gon's head up with a normal saber)
Cheap move? I suppose Anakin is a cheating b*tch, and so is Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and everyone else who uses a melee move in combat. It's hardly a cheap move when you consider that Qui-Gon just couldn't defend, because he wasn't good enough. This is made clear in the novelization, and movie. Sidious >>> Maul > Qui-Gon. Maul took out Jinn in thirty seconds, even while Jinn was fighting with a "ferocity not seen before" (script & novel), and "found a new reserve of strength" (novel). I'd say Sidious takes him in two seconds.
Grips take TIME to kill a person, and Lightning won't work as already stated, while he's gripping Grievous, the other 2 can run up and kill Palpatine
Uh, yeah I'm sure he can't just lift up Grievous and toss him out the window.
May I ask, though, where are you getting this "grip" bit from? I never even stated that Sidious would use it in that entire post. You are clearly delusional, or just like to make up points and try to defeat them.
You = crazy.
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Lightyears.....Yes millions of miles lesserHe wouldn't have wounded the other Jedi, he can direct what it hits, Grievous dodged it, he saw it coming. Grievous was much better after that training lesson with Grievous, we're talking about Grievous at his prime, right before Mace crushed him, he dodged a bunch of Force attacks by Shaak Ti and her 2 Jedi friends.
They don't have to fight him with the Force, only Lightsabers, the only chance he will be able to attack ALL of them with the Force is at the start of the fight with Lightning, as they block all of that with their Lightsabers, they get close, encircle him, it comes to a Lightsaber duel, he can't beat them all, blocking 6 Lightsabers all around him would be impossible for him. Grip will only work on 1-2 people, in that time, he's vulnerable, he dies.
Did you see how little ground the push plowed through? A jedi can push around 5 people at once, but when Ki-Adi pushes it only covers the ground of one single person? Either he is damn weak, or he was directing so he wouldn't hit anyone else...
Yeah, I really like how he dodged Mace's force crush, Shaak Tiis push, Obi-Wan's push and Dooku's "push".
And I guess Sidious had 3 hands, since he lifted 3 pods at once.
Advent, now you're twisting words, and pulling shit from your ass
You pulled apart my writing and used that as backup, again I say you really should be a lawyer.
The 3 Jedi that died < Grievous, Qui-gon and Obi-Wan.
The numbers decide this since none of them alone are powerful enough to beat him, but together they do. Those Jedi were nobodys, weak.
Maul almost killed Sidious, and Qui-Gon is almost as good as him, Qui-Gon is more powerful than you paint him as. Obi-Wan only got owned because there was NO ONE ELSE TO HIT DOOKU WHILE HE DID IT, get that through your skull, he is not capable of fighting while doing a Force Crush/Grip. It's funny in a later sentence you destroy the Cartoon series, yet you use Grievous getting Force Crushed as Evidence. The Cartoon is exaggerated yes, but the things where he fought all 5 Jedi, and Mace crushing him, are Canon.
Yes Kit Fisto blocked, I knew that, stop Twisting words, the first 2 didn't, and the other Jedi had a PERFECT chance to strike Palpatine in the back while he stabbed them. Palpatine used obvious moves, which were incredibly slow, while the others LET THEMSELVES BE HIT. I again say, unless you admit that they were at Youngling level, go with the "OH SH**!" theory, no Jedi is that weak.
Grievous in ROTS =/= Grievous before getting Crushed. He didn't dodge it because he couldn't at that time. Was Dooku actually fighting with his Lightsaber while doing a Grip? No he wasn't, yes you can use Force Push can such, but Lightning/Grip take time to kill people, you have to channel, and with 3 people hitting him, all masters of Saber-combat, he doesn't have that time.
Yea, Shaak Ti pushed him through a wall, then there's the other countless Force Pushes he dodged. How is he going to notice the small end of his cape being tied to a Train while Shaak Ti makes no movements? Palpatine can't do anything like that here, and we can assume he'll take off his Cloak.
You use Personal attacks, really bit**y ones too. Lightning is the only one he can use on them from that distance, if he uses a Grip, he can only get 1 person, he can't throw them out the window, since they're on the other side of the room. Grievous was shown as fitting in that room in the Cartoon, and was able to do full movements, while slaughtering several Senate Guard and Clone Troopers
Obi-Wan was shown blocking the Lightning from a Distance with EASE, up close, it will be like Mace. the point of them being the Strongest Jedi is they know more techniques, how to survive, they didn't get there for nothing, just because that random Jedi didn't, doesn't mean that these Expert ones won't, your point is useless. Yoda is smaller, his Lightsaber is smaller, the Lightning covers more of his body, they have bigger Lightsabers, it won't be knocked from their hands
Yes, ALONE they would get owned by the Force, but he can only kill 1 at a time, the others stab him while he's doing that, it takes time to kill them, the others can get to him before that happens.
Distance matters when blocking it, Qui-Gon was a very skilled Jedi, he would block it, prove that he couldn't. Sora Bulq was RIGHT INFRONT OF HIM, he took him out because of that, this isn't a famous Jedi, he's weaker than all of the people in this fight
Again you're dismissing Canon material that you yourself use, could he jump Thousands of Miles up? No, were the Events in those Canon? Yes. Movie Grievous has no purpose whatsoever in this debate, at all, would you like me to repeat that for you since I know you will bring it up yet again?
I believe that his weakness of Ataru was stated by Dooku in some EU, on Wookiepedia, and Starwars.com, everything is explained in the EU, most of the information you use comes from the EU, so you admit to not using Canonical information to debate? Ataru is known to need room, Maul's Lightsaber made no differance, he uses Juyo, which does not
Yes, Cheap moves, they don't show Lightsaber skill, Qui-Gon was capable of fighting him until Obi-wan got there
Grip was stated by other people,stop being so full of yourself, there are only 3 powers really, Push, Lightning, and Grip to be used, Lightning can be blocked, Grip takes time, others would kill him, and Push is only temporary.
You = Twist Words
Originally posted by kamikz
Did you see how little ground the push plowed through? A jedi can push around 5 people at once, but when Ki-Adi pushes it only covers the ground of one single person? Either he is damn weak, or he was directing so he wouldn't hit anyone else...Yeah, I really like how he dodged Mace's force crush, Shaak Tiis push, Obi-Wan's push and Dooku's "push".
And I guess Sidious had 3 hands, since he lifted 3 pods at once.
It was powerful, Grievous dodged it, end of story
Yea, well, he did Dodge the other what? 5-10 on one battle by Shaak Ti, Mace used a Force Crush(actually more of a Force Close the Armor on his Organs) you don't dodge that. Obi-Wan pushed already weakened Grievous
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Advent, now you're twisting words, and pulling shit from your ass
You pulled apart my writing and used that as backup, again I say you really should be a lawyer.
Kreiger, you're making shit up. I love how you say all these things, yet I don't even do them. Your tactic thus far is saying shit, and not backing it up, so as it seems that I am doing something dirty - when, in fact, you're doing it. I show when you're making shit up, and you don't properly retort it.
Yes Kit Fisto blocked, I knew that, stop Twisting words, the first 2 didn't,
Oh, where did I "twist" something around? Here's your exact words:
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger (<--That's you, idiot)
I love how no one is addressing how they didn't even TRY to block his attacks
How can I "twist" something that was vague? Glad to see you can attempt to discredit, and horribly fail. When did you give any specifics indicating Kit blocked it? Oh? You didn't? So, now I'll just make a fool out of you. QED, noob.
I believe that his weakness of Ataru was stated by Dooku in some EU, on Wookiepedia, and Starwars.com, everything is explained in the EU, most of the information you use comes from the EU, so you admit to not using Canonical information to debate? Ataru is known to need room, Maul's Lightsaber made no differance, he uses Juyo, which does not
1.) Wookipedia, lol. Wookiepedia is not an authority on Star Wars, it's information holds no water unless you have the proof that backs it up (i.e. actual source material/quote).
2.) Prove up.
3.) And we know that Qui-Gon does not use Ataru like a regular practitioner, as Ataru is know for it's acrobatic moves, and such.
4.) You're going to say that the size of your lightsaber doesn't matter?
Bull-f*cking-shit! If you're going to be so daft, don't even continue to debate with me.
Yes, Cheap moves, they don't show Lightsaber skill, Qui-Gon was capable of fighting him until Obi-wan got there
Uh? No? After Obi-Wan got knocked down it was Qui-Gon and Maul alone. And this is stated exactly in the novelization:
"But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger."
Maul > Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan never even got involved in their singles match. In any case, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were failing in their attempts at tag teaming, as well. Failing horribly. Qui-Gon cannot beat Maul. Nothing more to it.
Grip was stated by other people,stop being so full of yourself,
So, because it was stated by other people, it means you should address it while talking to me? Great response for the fact you just like to make shit up, and defeat it. That wasn't even one of my points, ergo there was no reason to say it. Period.
You = Twist Words
Care to show me where I've "twisted words"? I've pointed out the time you said I did, that you did not specify. So, in fact, you're the only one changing shit.
You = Fail.
Anyways, the rest I'll address later. Though, I can tell you - you're wrong without even reading half of it.
Originally posted by AdventKreiger, you're making shit up. I love how you say all these things, yet I don't even do them. Your tactic thus far is saying shit, and not backing it up, so as it seems that I am doing something dirty - when, in fact, you're doing it. I show when you're making shit up, and you don't properly retort it.
Oh, where did I "twist" something around? Here's your exact words:
How can I "twist" something that was vague? Glad to see you can attempt to discredit, and [b]horribly fail. When did you give any specifics indicating Kit blocked it? Oh? You didn't? So, now I'll just make a fool out of you. QED, noob.
1.) Wookipedia, lol. Wookiepedia is [b]not an authority on Star Wars, it's information holds no water unless you have the proof that backs it up (i.e. actual source material/quote).
2.) Prove up.
3.) And we know that Qui-Gon does not use Ataru like a regular practitioner, as Ataru is know for it's acrobatic moves, and such.
4.) You're going to say that the size of your lightsaber doesn't matter?
[b]Bull-f*cking-[b]shit! If you're going to be so daft, don't even continue to debate with me.
Uh? No? After Obi-Wan got knocked down it was Qui-Gon and Maul alone. And this is stated exactly in the novelization:
"But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger."
Maul > Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan never even got involved in their singles match. In any case, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were failing in their attempts at tag teaming, as well. Failing horribly. Qui-Gon cannot beat Maul. Nothing more to it.
So, because it was stated by other people, it means you should address it while talking to me? Great response for the fact you just like to make shit up, and defeat it. That wasn't even one of my points, ergo there was no reason to say it. Period.
Care to show me where I've "twisted words"? I've pointed out the time you said I did, that you did not specify. So, in fact, you're the only one changing shit.
You = Fail.
Anyways, the rest I'll address later. Though, I can tell you - you're wrong without even reading half of it.
hang You're twisting my words by taking parts of single sentences, and addressing them as 2 differant topics. Debating with you now is pointless, you're not reading my posts, and attacking my "evidence" even though you use the exact same. I'm not making any shit up, you really need to take a Chill Pill
death smartass
