Originally posted by Stoic
Writers simply chose to ignore the Hulk's power set. This is a forum battle. Your argument ignores the Hulk's powers, and places it in the PIS category. Thor should have only been able to match the Hulk's strength increase to a certain amount of time (you should know this). We recently saw how the Hulk actually does increase in power. Do you want to ignore that as well?The real question should not be whether I am trying to not make sense, the question is why are you attempting to ignore a characters power profile?
If Kurse was unable to be hurt, how was he rendered unconscious? [b]Energizer, a member of Power Pack, absorbed energy from both Thor's and Beta Ray Bill's enchanted hammers and then fired a tremendously powerful ball of energy at Kurse, which rendered him unconscious
<--- Does this in any way resemble not being able to be hurt?Comics are filled with PIS and CIS, but in a forum match does this mean that we should ignore the characters power set because the writers decided to ignore them for the purpose of plot? No. Trust me I see your point, but consider the Hulk's power set, and the fact that nothing was capable of putting him down in his mindless state. Has the Hulk ever shifted the odds in his favor when other characters had him clearly beat? You would be right about Kurse beating the hell out of the Hulk, and that beating going unanswered, if he were the Rhino, or some other character who does not increase in power, but it's not.
You can only say that Kurse wins this by a margin of 50%, but encroaching on any more than this is just you ignoring the Hulk's powers, and ability to heal, and grow stronger as the battle rages. Mindless Hulk did not have the restraint that the Hulk had when Banner was on board, he would not hold back.
No matter how strong Kurse is, the Hulk can and would become stronger. Marvel as you seem so hinged on quoting says that the Hulk is the strongest one there is. They never said that Kurse was the strongest one there is. Double standards can be a slippery slope at times. [/B]
oh so now its the writers fault? really? i get it when ever you cant present something to back up your claim simply blame on the writers for not writing it down the way you want it to be got it.
the thing is while hulk potentially can get stronger with his anger the fact is he cant just get madder and madder because there is a limit to anger, if someone walks towards you in the streed and spit on you ok? you will get pissed as hell and start to trash that guy but thats the maddest you get in that fight, you cant get madder and madder within every moment, now to back up that claim of yours you will have to present on panel proof showing hulk operating under those abilities by getting madder and stronger thruought the fight, as i presented already there are too many fights of hulk going toe 2 toe with someone for hours and not being able to overpower him or even get an edge which shows us that again while anger is the fuel it still doesnt work the way you want it to work.
i was talking about physical harm and kurse, what you are doing here is bring energy based attacks while i am talking about physical immunity, are you really trying to compare mjolnir + stormbreaker to hulk punch? lets begin with the fact hulk punch is physical and guess what? thats right... kurse is imune to physical harm, now you will argue that his punches are charged with kinetic energy but same thing could be said about any freakin punch, thunderclaps and overall punches create energy so by your logicthere isnt such thing as physical immunity because every physical impact is also charged by some degree of kinetic energy? fact is that every immunity in comics doesnt work in a surgical logical way, fact is that if a comics state that character A is imune to physical harm that means punches cant hurt that character, what can hulk do beside physical harm? nothing...
even if we go by your case which is hulk having energy projection shooting away from his punches, can you prove its = mjolnir + stormbreaker combined? those2 together can effect the universe can hulk do that with only the after shocks of his punches? dont be redicilous
as i said before i am tired of this "hulk will just get stronger" bullshit i hear all the time, either you present hulk getting stronger and stronger as the fight goes on by increasing his rage thruought the fight or zip it, because frankly its getting too redicilous, yes i know hulk's power set and i know potentially he can get stronger with his anger.. however as i explained before you cant get madder and madder because anger isnt unlimited, you reach your peak of anger and thats it.
Thor is portrayed as being equel to hulk in tearms of strength all the time, Kurse is not only x4 stronger than Thor but he also is raping Thor everytime they fight , to assume someone like kurse wont be able to overpower hulk within moments is crazy, Kurse can Ko Hulk , Kurse can just break his neck with easy and its enough for a KO win, and facts are Hulk cant Hurt Kurse becauce he is just a 1 dimensional brick and no matter how intelligent he will be all he can do is just "HULK SMASH" because thats all he is a brick with fists.
i just love how the hulk fanboys are trying to give him now energy powers and by doing that they basically try to give energy powers to every brick that can punch and leave after shock effects, thing is that the energy comming with the punch is only an after impact shock , but if the physical impact itself is absorbed then its mute, its like in martial arts right? if you hit and object and break it then the energy flaw keeps on going thrue the object matirial, however if you dont have enough force to break the object all the impact will be returned and actually hurt you so if you want to use real logic i can bring you hulk hurting himself with his own force when punching kurse
Originally posted by janus77
Mindless Hulk was never separated from Banner, that was after Mindless Hulk beat Onslaught's physical form.Anyway, on-topic. Mindless Hulk for the simple and obvious stomping win over Kurse.
There was a whole arc covering Mindless Hulk's separation from Banner. And it was way before the Onslaught saga.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There was a whole arc covering Mindless Hulk's separation from Banner. And it was way before the Onslaught saga.
Mindless Hulk, as in the one fighting Onslaught is just Professor Hulk with Banner neutralised so that he can fight more effectively.
Bannerless Hulk (Hulk separated from Banner), happens afterwards.
At present we have a very intelligent Bannerless Hulk too, but during the fight with Onslaught, he was not Bannerless, that persona was still in there but neutralised.
Originally posted by janus77
I think you've got that backwards, Banner and Professor Hulk only separate due to the whole Onslaught Heroes Reborn universe thing. And that happens after Mindless Hulk busts Onslaught and then the heroes all attempt to absorb Onslaught's energy form.Mindless Hulk, as in the one fighting Onslaught is just Professor Hulk with Banner neutralised so that he can fight more effectively.
Bannerless Hulk (Hulk separated from Banner), happens afterwards.At present we have a very intelligent Bannerless Hulk too, but during the fight with Onslaught, he was not Bannerless, that persona was still in there but neutralised.
No, I'm referring to John Bryne's run. After the Bruce Banner persona died fighting Nightmare, the Bannerless Hulk (I guess you could call him Mindless, but Banner was considered dead and gone IIRC) gets banished. Eventually he comes back from the crossroads, and Samson physically separates Banner from the Hulk.
That's the arc where he fights all of those heroes (Hercules, Iron Man, Wonder Man etc.), this was around #315 or so. Either way, the Banner less Hulk wasn't first seen post Onslaught.
Also, I'm pretty sure that the Hulk Thor fights in #286 was referenced as being Banner less, but more intelligent like the current Hulk. I have no idea what was going on with that.
Originally posted by blue_beast
oh so now its the writers fault? really? i get it when ever you cant present something to back up your claim simply blame on the writers for not writing it down the way you want it to be got it.the thing is while hulk potentially can get stronger with his anger the fact is he cant just get madder and madder because there is a limit to anger, if someone walks towards you in the streed and spit on you ok? you will get pissed as hell and start to trash that guy but thats the maddest you get in that fight, you cant get madder and madder within every moment, now to back up that claim of yours you will have to present on panel proof showing hulk operating under those abilities by getting madder and stronger thruought the fight, as i presented already there are too many fights of hulk going toe 2 toe with someone for hours and not being able to overpower him or even get an edge which shows us that again while anger is the fuel it still doesnt work the way you want it to work.
i was talking about physical harm and kurse, what you are doing here is bring energy based attacks while i am talking about physical immunity, are you really trying to compare mjolnir + stormbreaker to hulk punch? lets begin with the fact hulk punch is physical and guess what? thats right... kurse is imune to physical harm, now you will argue that his punches are charged with kinetic energy but same thing could be said about any freakin punch, thunderclaps and overall punches create energy so by your logicthere isnt such thing as physical immunity because every physical impact is also charged by some degree of kinetic energy? fact is that every immunity in comics doesnt work in a surgical logical way, fact is that if a comics state that character A is imune to physical harm that means punches cant hurt that character, what can hulk do beside physical harm? nothing...
even if we go by your case which is hulk having energy projection shooting away from his punches, can you prove its = mjolnir + stormbreaker combined? those2 together can effect the universe can hulk do that with only the after shocks of his punches? dont be redicilous
as i said before i am tired of this "hulk will just get stronger" bullshit i hear all the time, either you present hulk getting stronger and stronger as the fight goes on by increasing his rage thruought the fight or zip it, because frankly its getting too redicilous, yes i know hulk's power set and i know potentially he can get stronger with his anger.. however as i explained before you cant get madder and madder because anger isnt unlimited, you reach your peak of anger and thats it.
Thor is portrayed as being equel to hulk in tearms of strength all the time, Kurse is not only x4 stronger than Thor but he also is raping Thor everytime they fight , to assume someone like kurse wont be able to overpower hulk within moments is crazy, Kurse can Ko Hulk , Kurse can just break his neck with easy and its enough for a KO win, and facts are Hulk cant Hurt Kurse becauce he is just a 1 dimensional brick and no matter how intelligent he will be all he can do is just "HULK SMASH" because thats all he is a brick with fists.
i just love how the hulk fanboys are trying to give him now energy powers and by doing that they basically try to give energy powers to every brick that can punch and leave after shock effects, thing is that the energy comming with the punch is only an after impact shock , but if the physical impact itself is absorbed then its mute, its like in martial arts right? if you hit and object and break it then the energy flaw keeps on going thrue the object matirial, however if you dont have enough force to break the object all the impact will be returned and actually hurt you so if you want to use real logic i can bring you hulk hurting himself with his own force when punching kurse
1. Plot Induced Stupidity has always existed, and if it didn't, battles between guys like Batman vs Superman would be over before they began. Do you get that or should I make more of an example of your silly statement?
2. This statement would be true if it were another character that we were speaking of, however this is the Hulk (Banner) that we are speaking of, and as such before you begin spouting, you first need to understand the character that you are arguing against. Banner is different as explained throughout his history.
Banner has psychological issues that he battles against. These issues have fragmented his psyche into a series of what would be called epistemological dichotomies, meaning that he has a lot swimming around in his head, and the main reason that the Hulk can tap into a well of limitless power.
Shit as we speak, one of his personalities has freed itself from his mind and is running around freely. The She Hulk, and other Hulk's can not do this. So yes he can continue to get more excited, and continue to grow in power. You're the person that brought up what went on in comics, so let's dig deeper. Let's go by what a comic on panel said about the Hulk.
The Beyonder said that the Hulk was an infinite power, the Hulk's bio concerning his power set says that the more excitable the Hulk becomes the stronger he becomes, in fact there is no comic that was made concerning the Hulk that says anything other than just that. You may not like it, but those are his powers. Kurse has a limit, the Hulk does not.
3. Actually the Hulk is saturated with solar energy, so you need to check your facts about the Hulk, because in this case you are wrong once again, and I am right. There has been several times that the Hulk has been see leaking energy, and yes technically speaking kinetic energy is energy. Kurse is also not immune to physical damage, he is highly resistant to it. The Juggernaut has better durability feats than Kurse, and even he has been hurt. As I stated before, the Hulk has broken through dimensional barriers that were said on panel to be impenetrable. Is Kurse's durability greater than the stuff that bind dimension shut? Doubtful.
4. The blast that hit Kurse was not on the level that it would take to destroy a planet, yet alone a universe, take your advice and don't be ridiculous. If the blast was that great the Power Pack as well as the entire city would have been obliterated. Obviously Kurse is not as durable as you claim.
5. Thor is at base as strong as the Hulk, but he does not and can not keep up with the Hulk for long periods of time, which is why when they sat there in a test of strength that last over 1 hour is considered PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) because the writer did not include the way that the Hulk's power works, I hope that I don't have to explain this to you again. It really doesn't matter how tired and fed up you are with how the Hulk's power works, he was created to operate under those rules, not yours or mine. Kurse was written to be 4x Thor in strength alone, and this is a finite number, it's a large number but still finite. The Hulk is an infinite power, which as I mentioned before was stated on panel by the same guy that gave Kurse his upgrade.
Thor can not match the Hulk's strength for long periods of time, but he has things that he brings to a fight that Kurse simply does not possess, and never will.
6. Like I told you before, you need to know the character that you are arguing against, and you obviously know very little about the Hulk and attempt to low ball him at every turn. Kurse is more one dimensional than the Hulk is, Yes the Hulk is saturated with solar energy, which is where gamma rays are emitted from. yes the Hulk has been seen on panel bleeding gamma energy, and yes the Hulk can become stronger than Kurse. If we were talking about the Savage Hulk that starts out at 75 tons and reaches 100 plus tons within 5 minutes, then I would not be arguing for him, and would agree that Kurse takes a vast majority of wins. However, the Mindless Hulk was stark raving crazy, and a chaotic creature driven by insane levels of anger. This is the same Mindlesss persona that overcame Onslaught's strength. Yes the same Onslaught that turned the Juggernaut into a whimpering mess physically. It didn't take him an hour to do this, it took him moments. Kurse is really the one dimensional character in this thread. Would you like to compare versatility?
1 The Hulk can increase his strength. Kurse can not
2. The Hulk can increase his durability. Kurse can not
3. The Hulk has energy projection. Kurse does not.
4. The Hulk can see the unseen Kurse can not.
5. The Hulk has an uncanny ability to locate a destination while moving under ground. Kurse can not.
6. The Hulk can leap to the point of flight. I have never seen Kurse do this but he likely could
Who is the one dimensional character now?
The question here is whether or not Algrim Vangoth can put the mindless Hulk down, when Thor hit him so hard that his head caused micro fractures to appear on an adamantium statue. Kurse would have to put him down immediately, or be eventually overcome by strength greater than his own. The Vision was unable to stop him when he fazed into him, which resulted in damaging him instead. Monica was unable to stop him while attempting to drain him. Hercules accompanied by Iron Man, Wonder Man, Namor, and Doc Samson was unable to put him down, and began to run out of endurance while he was steadily growing stronger. Even after two other Avengers teams stepped in, they too were unable to stop the mindless Hulk.
Onslaught had every heroes number, and they were unable to physically stop him, but the mindless Hulk did in in a few panels. We even saw how Onslaught was stronger at the beginning of the battle, but then saw how fast the hulk ramped up and over powered his physical vessel. This did not take an hour, it took seconds.