Who's the best swordsman?

Started by Lightsnake10 pages

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
anakin was the chosen one and as GL stated, him being the chosen one, that he had the most potential of any jedi in the past, the present or future, a.k.a. EVER.

luke was more skilled than the movie anakin but he wasn't hacked up into pieces and put back together in a suit that hampered movements and force abilities.

if it was anakin in lukes place then anakin would, in theory, be better in the ways of the force and at fighting.


GL also said Luke has the same potential. So 'in theory', Luke's strong as FPA

Originally posted by Lightsnake
GL also said Luke has the same potential. So 'in theory', Luke's strong as FPA

i want to see the exact quote, GL did say luke took the role of most powerful jedi, which anakin should have become BUT gl mentioned FPA is the strongest user who ever lived, that means luke by lotf.

luke only took over that role of being most powerful, already lucas stated anakin would be stronger than any1 had he achieved his full potential.

And he stated Luke and Ano have the same potential.
Vanity Fair. DVD commentary.

'It's in Yoda's section.'

Nope. I just checked, nothing of the sort. It actually goes as far to question whether he was the best PT jedi - 'perhaps only Master Mace Windu equaled him in skill and reputation'

'Oh, and 'most likely referring to....' Lucas also called the PT the Prime of the Jedi in regards to fighting.'

I'm not even sure why you're bringing this up now but you know that there are many people who believe that Lucas used the term a bit too casually to be looked into so much. He also said it in a very vague way and the terms itself is pretty ambiguous. The context that he used the term in also leads me to believe that he was disregarding the EU and only considering the movies as the whole video was based around choreography. Don't you also find it odd that the strongest order of jedi would be one in which the most popular form was Niman, the diplomat's form?

'Oh, and last I checked, he beat Dooku completely. What happened in the scene>Your opinion of it.'

Lmao, talk about self pwnage. You saying that Yoda beat Dooku completely is an opinion itself, and what actually happened is that neither Yoda or Dooku was the victor. Please, that view is completely asinine and you know it.

'Dooku acknowledges his loss'

When? Source?

'Dark Rendezvous, Yoda beats him AGAIN. So, no! You're wrong! Yoda> Dooku and this is expressly stated in the books and novelization.'

Dooku was incredibly emotionally conflicted and it was still a stalemate.

'Oh, Yoda was also the most skilled Jedi in, y'know, their prime in regards to fighting. To quote the AOTC comic adaptation: "Yoda shows why he is considered the most powerful Jedi...and Dooku realizes he is not the strongest after all."'

1. It's debatable that he was the most skilled, and I've already given my views on the 'Prime of the Jedi' video.

2. Key word = 'considered'. Dooku probably was realising he is not the strongest in regards to the force as well, not just primarily saber combat. But please provide more than just the quote on its own so I can determine the context that the quote is given in.

'And the script makes it clear Yoda dominated Dooku'

The final version of the script differs to the movie, and is therefor not canon.

'Prove they were weaker. Thanks!'

'The purpose of Naga Sadow's alchemy was to create a race of warriors to forever stand guard over his legacy. His work proved more than sufficient.. The Massasi are no longer as intelligent or civilised as their ancient sith ancestors... But they use the dark side of the force to guide and control their primitive weapon.' - page of issue of DLOTS.

Clearly Naga Sadow didn't consider the original Massasi good enough warriors to properly protect his legacy, so he alchemically turned them into Massasi more fit to protect his legacy. Now he clearly improved them in some way, what other way would there be other than strength and power to make them more able to protect his 'legacy'.

'Oh, and in TOTJ KOTOR, Oss says he's been training for a few years with Thon!'

5 years actually. And guess what: Thon wasn't his first master. he was originally apprenticed to Master Garnoo - source - Power of the Jedi Sourcebook.

'And Massassi killed distracted Sith Lords busy with battle who trusted them!'

The ancient sith lords that we see get killed had more than enough time to act, they even acknowledge the fact that their Massasi have turned on them. And the Massasi used their bare hands as well. Oh and so what that they trusted them. I doubt betrayal was that alien to them, especially considering they lived in a time where 'rebellion and civil war were common'. Face it the Massasi were incredible, ther could even use the dark side of the force and they were incredibly physically strong - what Sylvar did was incredible.

'When was Oss claimed to be exceptional now?'

'To liberate Onderon, jedi master Arca assembled an exceptional band of young jedi knights. Dace Diath, Tott Doneeta... Oss Wilum. A Vultan, student of Master Thon of Ambria. In his youth, Oss apprenticed to ancient Neti Master Garnoo who passed on before Oss completed his training.'

'And where'd she beat Kun?'

They were both sparring and Exar Kun was probably winning, but he was taunting her as well, so she tapped into the dark side and slashed his face. I'd call that a defeat, even though she failed the real test Vodo had for her.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
'[b]It's in Yoda's section.'

Nope. I just checked, nothing of the sort. It actually goes as far to question whether he was the best PT jedi - 'perhaps only Master Mace Windu equaled him in skill and reputation'

'Oh, and 'most likely referring to....' Lucas also called the PT the Prime of the Jedi in regards to fighting.'

I'm not even sure why you're bringing this up now but you know that there are many people who believe that Lucas used the term a bit too casually to be looked into so much. He also said it in a very vague way and the terms itself is pretty ambiguous. The context that he used the term in also leads me to believe that he was disregarding the EU and only considering the movies as the whole video was based around choreography. Don't you also find it odd that the strongest order of jedi would be one in which the most popular form was Niman, the diplomat's form?

'Oh, and last I checked, he beat Dooku completely. What happened in the scene>Your opinion of it.'

Lmao, talk about self pwnage. You saying that Yoda beat Dooku completely is an opinion itself, and what actually happened is that neither Yoda or Dooku was the victor. Please, that view is completely asinine and you know it.

'Dooku acknowledges his loss'

When? Source?

'Dark Rendezvous, Yoda beats him AGAIN. So, no! You're wrong! Yoda> Dooku and this is expressly stated in the books and novelization.'

Dooku was incredibly emotionally conflicted and it was still a stalemate.

'Oh, Yoda was also the most skilled Jedi in, y'know, their prime in regards to fighting. To quote the AOTC comic adaptation: "Yoda shows why he is considered the most powerful Jedi...and Dooku realizes he is not the strongest after all."[/b'

1. It's debatable that he was the most skilled, and I've already given my views on the 'Prime of the Jedi' video.

2. Key word = 'considered'. Dooku probably was realising he is not the strongest in regards to the force as well, not just primarily saber combat. But please provide more than just the quote on its own so I can determine the context that the quote is given in.

'[b]And the script makes it clear Yoda dominated Dooku'

The final version of the script differs to the movie, and is therefor not canon.

'Prove they were weaker. Thanks!'

'The purpose of Naga Sadow's alchemy was to create a race of warriors to forever stand guard over his legacy. His work proved more than sufficient.. The Massasi are no longer as intelligent or civilised as their ancient sith ancestors... But they use the dark side of the force to guide and control their primitive weapon.' - page of issue of DLOTS.

Clearly Naga Sadow didn't consider the original Massasi good enough warriors to properly protect his legacy, so he alchemically turned them into Massasi more fit to protect his legacy. Now he clearly improved them in some way, what other way would there be other than strength and power to make them more able to protect his 'legacy'.

'Oh, and in TOTJ KOTOR, Oss says he's been training for a few years with Thon!'

5 years actually. And guess what: Thon wasn't his first master. he was originally apprenticed to Master Garnoo - source - Power of the Jedi Sourcebook.

'And Massassi killed distracted Sith Lords busy with battle who trusted them!'

The ancient sith lords that we see get killed had more than enough time to act, they even acknowledge the fact that their Massasi have turned on them. And the Massasi used their bare hands as well. Oh and so what that they trusted them. I doubt betrayal was that alien to them, especially considering they lived in a time where 'rebellion and civil war were common'. Face it the Massasi were incredible, ther could even use the dark side of the force and they were incredibly physically strong - what Sylvar did was incredible.

'When was Oss claimed to be exceptional now?'

'To liberate, jedi master Arca assembled an exceptional band of young jedi knights. Dace Diath, Tott Doneeta... Oss Wilum. A Vultan, student of Master Thon of Ambria. In his youth, Oss apprenticed to ancient Neti Master Garnoo who passed on before Oss completed his training.'

'And where'd she beat Kun?'

They were both sparring and Exar Kun was probably winning, but he was taunting her as well, so she tapped into the dark side and slashed his face. I'd call that a defeat, even though she failed the real test Vodo had for her. [/B]

1. We're talking 'bout the sourcebook, right? And In the NEC, Yoda is mentioned to have destroyed an entire army of droids. with ease. And Legacy of the Jedi. And AOTC novel. And ROTS novel. and it's 'perhaps', key word, or did you miss that? Since Mace, y'know, freely admits he's beneath Yoda

2. I don't care what those people believed. It's not ambiguous. He said it was their prime in regards to fighting. Lucas always disregards the EU, big deal. And can you prove that Jedi in the past didn't use the diplomat's form as much? You need to master Niman to master Jar'Krai after all.

3. Except that Yoda beat Dooku is backed up in the novelization, script AND books, thanks for playing.

4. Dark Rendevous, ever read it?

5. A stalemate? Dooku is completely beaten and runs away. Oh, and Yoda was catching a woman with the force and facing a planet heavily on the darkside. Nice try, though. Oh, ROTs novelization, too...calls Yoda the strongest foe the darkness had ever known.

6. Ooooh, no, sorry! Scripts are canon and it shows Yoda won!

7. We;re supposed to care about 'your views' on the video? Lucas said it, case closed.

8. How much more contextual do you want it? "Dooku realizes he is not the strongest Jedi after all." And "Yoda shows why he is considered the strongest Jedi."
And last I checked, this is when they were fighting with, y'know, sabers.

9. Prove the Massassi were stornger. Thanks.

10. Massassi used their bare hands? This is why we see them, y'know, using knives? Massassi were canon fodder. Time to prove up. The super battle droids were incredible too, I guess. Simply bleating on about how the massassi were incredible...well, you're disregarding Advent who owned every Sylvar argument. When Massassi are shown as anything more than pathetic canon fodder...and when did the Sith Lrods have time 'to react?' Making stuff up again? We just see Naga saying 'the Massassi will deal with it' then a few images of the Sith Lords getting killed on one ship...one with a knife in his head. And last I checked the Massassi on Yavin hadn't had any fights in...how long? four hundred years at least? Meaning that sort of crap means nothing, thanks again.

11. and Oss was a padawan when Garnoo died. Thanks.

12. An exceptional band. Point being? This isn't calling Oss exceptional.

13. OMG, she SLASHED EXAR'S FACE! Never mind he put her on her ass a mere panel later, I'll believe what I want! Give it a rest, this is like saying that since Luke got a hit on Vader, he won even when Vader sliced his hand off a second later.

14.

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
anakin was the chosen one and as GL stated, him being the chosen one, that he had the most potential of any jedi in the past, the present or future, a.k.a. EVER.

luke was more skilled than the movie anakin but he wasn't hacked up into pieces and put back together in a suit that hampered movements and force abilities.

if it was anakin in lukes place then anakin would, in theory, be better in the ways of the force and at fighting.

How does being the chosen one effect anything on his potential? Right, it doesn't, and GL never said it did..... And he said he would be the most powerful jedi in history, but history is the past. Ever is at the present, like if we would say Einstine is the smartest man ever or smartest in history, doesn't mean no one will surpass him....

Uh, does it matter? No one has said anything about that, we are all talking about FP aren't we?

No...

EDIT: Nvm.

Yeah, I think I'm done here too

Huh?

Note: Yoda defeated Count Dooku in combat, while defending Lady Malreaux (who was tossed out of a window by Dooku) and, while they were on Vjun - a world steeped in the Dark Side.

Dooku lost against a half-distracted Yoda on a Dark Side world. In an all out fight, akin to AotC - he'd lose again.

True. Whatever, I'll concede on the Yoda/Dooku point.

anakin was the chosen one and as GL stated, him being the chosen one, that he had the most potential of any jedi in the past, the present or future, a.k.a. EVER.
Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
luke was more skilled than the movie anakin but he wasn't hacked up into pieces and put back together in a suit that hampered movements and force abilities.

if it was anakin in lukes place then anakin would, in theory, be better in the ways of the force and at fighting.

i strongly agree with that... i bet if anakin wasnt rebuilt like a semi cyborg, he could beat Luke

Well he WAS supposed to be twice as powerful as Sdious at HIS max, so... yeah probably.

I'm getting the issue number where Lucas confirms Luke's potential=Anakin's

then it is unknown how the battle will end?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And he stated Luke and Ano have the same potential.
Vanity Fair. DVD commentary.

tell me the EXACT quote

and sidious mentioned vader is 80% of him. that means half of FPA is it?

and i read in the rodv novel it said this
page 330-
"there would be a day however, when they will become equals"

that meant sidious and vader

Lucas said that, not Vader.

And those were Vader's thoughts. He needed an apprentice. Luke is Anakin in terms of potential

nah it was coming from the writer not vaders thoughts, note there were 2 pages saying this, 1 page was vader thinking the other is a summary of what the writer wrote.

thats like saying "o njo luke is powerful because he did this and that but lucas didnt say so"

"they would become equals"

notice the word "they" that means it didnt come from vader or sidious

No, it was Vader's toughts, I've read RoDV. Luca said Vader could only become 80 percent of Palpatine, so end story there.
Vader was THINKING they;d become equals, that was all

i still believe anakin could beat luke i mean, if he wouldve not fallen to the magma. palp even said while fighting with yoda: "my apprentice will one day become more powerful than both of us!" or something like that the point is anakin would become more powerful than yoda and sidious with their combined powers one day that surely kicks luke's ass