Who's the best swordsman?

Started by Sith Lord Windu10 pages

two things.

1) wiki and wookiepedia aren't cannon, thier fan writen and have peoples opinions on them. an example is that thier has been no official or cannon answer as to whether plagueis had the ability to create life and whether he created anakin, which is a kinda contradiction.

2) "of the greatest" means one of, right? does obi-wan say out of how many? im sure he know the greatest jedi to come out of the order. he odesn't have to know ALL the jedi the order has produced but the greatest jedi will have been noted, like yoda and mace.

fan written? ZOMG is vader the ultimate guide non canon? hell no, its people who contribute from whats in the book WORD FOR WORD thats not canon?

what bull shit are you talking about sith lord windu

it said so in the new essential chronology and vader the ultimate guide, i just happen to stumble on it on wiki because i dont have money to buy those books ok because in this god for saken country everything is so expensive, whats 15 dollars there costs 50 bucks here

some parts of wiki and wooki are untrue, not all, just some bits. thats what i was saying.

Originally posted by ESB Vader
yea but that was 6 years after his death when he got into his clone bodies, hmm still yes he could have practised before he sucked luke to byss, but it still cannot prove he practised in the 6 year gap before the beginning of DE

It has been suggested in Vader: The Ultimate Guide that Plagueis, in his experimentation with the Force, created Anakin Skywalker in his mother's womb. quote from wiki

In Revenge of the Sith Chancellor Palpatine, or newly revealed Darth Sidious, says: "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved. But if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." Pretty much saying that he does not know how to do the things Darth Plagueis could.
another quote from wiki

there u go

proof enough? to the logical yes

According to Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology, Darth Plagueis indeed knew how to create life, and sought to create a replacement for his apprentice -another quote, theres all the evidence u need

Palpatine's first major appearance in the Expanded Universe came in 1991 and 1992 with the Dark Empire series of comic books written by Tom Veitch and illustrated by Cam Kennedy. In the series, set six years after Return of the Jedi, Palpatine is resurrected as the Emperor Reborn or Palpatine the Undying. His spirit returns from the netherworld of the Force with the aid of Sith Lord ghosts on Korriban and possesses the body of Jeng Droga, one of Palpatine's elite spies and assassins known as the Emperor's Hands. Droga flees to a secret Imperial base on the planet Byss, where the Emperor's advisor Sate Pestage exorcises

QUOTE from wiki

this also proves yes he did posses that guy but that was SIX years after his death

Except....no. You're a liar. Palpatine entered a new clone body almost directly after Endor, according to just about any source. He immediately took Droga's body back to Byss and entered a new clone. Adventure Journal,l DE, NEC....sorry.

The NEC says nothing but ADMITTED CONJECTURE from the author!
So we have a 'it is beieved', since it NEVER gives a definite and the word of a liar. Whoops, there goes your point..

Sorry, but it'll take a bit more

Originally posted by Escape81
I believe it was an interview. Or it could've been one of the commentaries. I'll be searching.

No it's cool, you don't have to search for it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Except....no. You're a liar. Palpatine entered a new clone body almost directly after Endor, according to just about any source. He immediately took Droga's body back to Byss and entered a new clone. Adventure Journal,l DE, NEC....sorry.

The NEC says nothing but ADMITTED CONJECTURE from the author!
So we have a 'it is beieved', since it NEVER gives a definite and the word of a liar. Whoops, there goes your point..

Sorry, but it'll take a bit more

i proven to you that plagueis had the techniques now shut up

ok i read the quote properly so he did hide in byss for years, that can prove he did practise his force and saber,

but no, the book sstill cant prove he learnt plagueis manipulation technique like i say he didnt learn all the techniques in the force because a new one, the darth plagueis technique just came out in ROTS and PROVEN by vader the ultimate guide

Prove he had the technique. No? Ok. He exists, point being? Nothing proves it, so **** your opinion and your idiocy.

*Yawn* Canon says he had every technique. End of story, kid. Sorry, but nothing has ever proven what Plagueis knew. It's all conjecture and the sources even admit it

you really are stupid arent you, official books said so it existed! OWNED
and he exists! because GEORGE LUCAS llet james luceno write a book about him

fanboy fanbrat dangirl, shut the fu*k up, you got owned the book only claims he has all techniques which they cant prove.
so is FPA weaker than DE sidious because DE book says he got all the techniques? hell no.

you are an idiot, a fanboy, shut up, no1 in this forums likes you because you are an idiot beyond belief, you want to defy canon,

Darth Plagueis was a Muun Sith Lord who, according to legend, had discovered a way to manipulate midi-chlorians to prevent death and create life. However, his apprentice, Darth Sidious, betrayed Plagueis (a common practice among the Sith) and killed him in his sleep, thus becoming the Sith Master.

It was Sidious, in his civilian guise as Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, who later recounted The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise to young Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker in order to lure him further toward the dark side of the Force.

Although it is never officially stated in the cinematic release of Revenge of the Sith that Sidious was Plagueis' apprentice, this information is included in the film's novelization, in which Sidious says, "Darth Plagueis was my master . . . before I killed him." It is also mentioned in the Star Wars novel Labyrinth of Evil.

In Return of the Jedi, Yoda tells Luke of his old age (900 years) and inevitable death. To this, Luke replies, "But Master Yoda, you can't die..." Yoda then says: "Strong am I with the force, but not that strong." Yoda's words imply that the power to prevent death is possible, provided the subject is extremely knowledgeable of the force.

Palpatine's explanation of Plagueis's power to Anakin was as follows:

Palpatine: Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
Anakin Skywalker: No.
Palpatine: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.
Anakin Skywalker: He could actually save people from death?
Palpatine: The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
Anakin Skywalker: What happened to him?
Palpatine: He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was...losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. It's ironic; he could save others from death, but not himself.
Anakin Skywalker: Is it possible to learn this power?
Palpatine: Not from a Jedi.

According to the Force ghost of Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, speaking to Yoda through the Force, the true secret to immortality in the Force was not physical, but spiritual. This does not rule out the possibility that Plagueis had learned a technique to stop death, but whatever the Sith Lord learned, it was not ultimate immortality, which, according to Qui-Gon, could be achieved only through "compassion, not greed."

Perhaps the technique Palpatine promises to discover with Anakin is the cybernetics used as a prototype to support General Grievous and later, in a cruel twist of fate, to support Darth Vader. Indeed, Palpatine never promises that in order to stop death, one does not also have to become a machine. Such hyper-literal intrepretations are also a common theme when one “deals with the devil.” So under this reading, Palpatine keeps his promise to Anakin by prolonging life after death with their (collaborative) creation of the iconic Darth Vader in a black iron lung.

The root of the Sith nickname is quite obvious in Plagueis's case: "plague" It may also be related to the English heretic Pelagius who thought that souls could be saved from damnation by their own will alone, rather than relying upon the grace of a deity.

[edit]
Origin of Anakin Skywalker
As revealed in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, Anakin Skywalker has no biological father. His mother, Shmi, was unable to explain to Qui-Gon Jinn how Anakin was conceived. Qui-Gon later theorized that Anakin was conceived by the midi-chlorians themselves, in accord with the will of the Force. This theory, combined with Anakin's unusually high midi-chlorian count and powerful connection to the Force, led Qui-Gon to believe that Anakin was the prophesied "Chosen One" who would bring balance to the Force.

It has been suggested in Vader: The Ultimate Guide that Plagueis, in his experimentation with the Force, created Anakin Skywalker in his mother's womb. According to Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology, Darth Plagueis indeed knew how to create life, and sought to create a replacement for his apprentice, Darth Sidious. In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, it is revealed that Sidious, in any case, did not have the ability to create a being as powerful as Anakin; and alternatively to the aforementioned sources, Sidious muses that Anakin is the "one created by the Force itself to restore balance."

Another theory labels Sidious, armed with the ability to influence midi-chlorians, as Anakin's creator. With the knowledge to prevent death, it is uncertain how old Darth Sidious truly is. Many believe Sidious is nearly a thousand years old, possibly explained by Ki-Adi-Mundi and Yoda in The Phantom Menace when Mundi states "The Sith have been extinct for a millennium" followed by Yoda's declaration of "Always two there are, no more, no less. A master, and an apprentice". Sidious' age is also partially revealed in Revenge of the Sith when he explains the Sith legend of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Many believe when Sidious labels the story as legend, it implies many years, perhaps hundreds, have passed since Plagueis's passing. This being said, it would have been impossible for Plagueis to create Anakin within the womb of Shmi, leaving Sidious as the only other option. Further indications of Sidious as the creator of Anakin comes at the conclusion of The Phantom Menace, as Palpatine grips Anakin on the shoulder and quotes, "And to you young Skywalker. We look forward to your career with great interest," implying Sidious already knew of Anakin's creation and destiny.

As Kreia explains in Knights of the Old Republic II, some Force abilities cannot be taught. This idea may be relevant to Palpatine's assertion that Plagueis "taught his apprentice everything he knew".

The true extent of Plagueis's power may never be revealed. In the June 2, 2005 issue of Rolling Stone, George Lucas stated that Plagueis and his possible role in Anakin Skywalker's conception were intentionally left ambiguous.

In Revenge of the Sith Chancellor Palpatine, or newly revealed Darth Sidious, says: "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved. But if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." Pretty much saying that he does not know how to do the things Darth Plagueis could.

whole thing from wiki, it even mentions where they got the info from

now go and argue, iv proven it to you already, argue some more you are going to be the biggest idiot i have ever seen in this forums
which apparently i fore see you are going to do because you are so damm idiotic,

anyways i dont want to argue with a brainless fanboy

In the June 2, 2005 issue of Rolling Stone, George Lucas stated that Plagueis and his possible role in Anakin Skywalker's conception were intentionally left ambiguous -quote

see this quote? from GEORGE lucas? that proves he does have the power

yea ok you want proof he has the power its all above! read it!

PRove the technique existed or shut up.

KReia= Fallible vcharacter
Palpatine= liar.
NEC= intentionally ambiguous
Ultimate guide= Intentionally ambiguous. Admitted by authors
DE sourcebook: Palpatine learned everything
Palpatine:

Prove a technique to save people from dying or creating life existed and that Palpatine did not learn it by DE since apparently he'd failed to heal his last clone.

Prove it, brat. I'm waiting for an exact, infallible, narrative voice that says Plagueis could created life and save people from dying and that Palpatine was telling the truth.
Go on. I'm waiting.

Plagueis existed. No proof his technique did.

proof is all up there numb skull, you are just so stupid you cant see it, already in vader the ultimate guide it said plagueis could have been the 1 who created anakin and which other way could he do that?

have intercourse with shmi? whom she claimed she never had sex and he had no father?

there you go FANbrat

and palpatine didnt learn everything, he didnt learn green lightning neither is he as good as luke neither is he stronger than full potential anakin,

see? i was right! you are an idiot, i already wrote if you replied you would be an idiot because all the evidence i just wrote down.

proof you got, see it you will not, because stupid you are
kick your ass i have

spoilt brat did you hear SIDIOUS HIMSELF SAYING "THE POWER TO CHEAT DEATH HAS ONLY BEEN ACHIEVED BY ONE" stupid fool idiot, you want to put DE sidious at the top.

well **** you, exar kun wins him, marka can kick his ass, FPA will butt rape him, LOTF luke would chain him like a dog, hell maybe even the retard vong leader will ****** him

Originally posted by ESB Vader

It has been suggested in Vader: The Ultimate Guide that Plagueis, in his experimentation with the Force, created Anakin Skywalker in his mother's womb.

i dont want to be dragged into this argument but the keyword of this bit is SUGGESTED.

and isn't this about the best swordsman, not force user?

but isn't that a contradiction? the sith created thier own demise, stupid or what!

Could have been the one, ESB....still no proof. and that's nothing like saving people from dying. It's a theory, nothing more and Lucas said it was ambiguous. Meaning no proof.

And OMG, Sidious is a liar who has lied numerous times in the movies!

Awww, so angry and immature. I've proven Exar Kun and Marka get their asses kicked, idiot. And it's backed up. So I guess you lose.

Prove he had powers Sidious didn't or didn't later achieve. Because if we o by ROTs, he says he'll achieve them later and dE he knows everything.

Funny, that. And awww, your true colors come out now. Come on, just try to argue. Oh, right...you can't, can you? Because you're a stupid, immature little fanboy who is incapable of understanding what a debate, argument, logic or proof happen to be.

Argue intelligently or don't waste my time

ALRIGHT. no need to add insult to injury. it sounds to me that your a bad looser as you have to rub it in when you win.

also, this is about whos the best swordsman, not who has more force powers.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Could have been the one, ESB....still no proof. and that's nothing like saving people from dying. It's a theory, nothing more and Lucas said it was ambiguous. Meaning no proof.

And OMG, Sidious is a liar who has lied numerous times in the movies!

Awww, so angry and immature. I've proven Exar Kun and Marka get their asses kicked, idiot. And it's backed up. So I guess you lose.

Prove he had powers Sidious didn't or didn't later achieve. Because if we o by ROTs, he says he'll achieve them later and dE he knows everything.

Funny, that. And awww, your true colors come out now. Come on, just try to argue. Oh, right...you can't, can you? Because you're a stupid, immature little fanboy who is incapable of understanding what a debate, argument, logic or proof happen to be.

Argue intelligently or don't waste my time

actually fanbrat, no1) iv broken ur arguements no2)iv proven plagueis had the power 3) iv proven by DE he didnt know it no4) iv proven in DEsidious vs exar thread that exar wins 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

fanboy you got OWNED

you just dont want to accept that you lost

DE sidious knows everything? "o then he must be uber" then why did he lose to luke? why is luke by lotf more powerful than him? why can full potential anakin kick his ass?

is thier any official proof that plagieus had the power to create and preserve life, other from a sith lord who lies to people and MAY have been saying that to get to anakins feelings

the new essential chronology? who mentioned plagueis who created anakin? want me to get u the quote from any online source?

Want me to call you full of crap and point out it never de

And gee, he might've lost to Luke because y'know, Luke has anakin's potential, had tripled in power, had become an avatar of the lightside and had his sister and her baby to fight for.
In fact, that's exactly what's said. Luke>Anyone else but FP Anakin, sorry

Oh, and where was this DE Sidious vs. Exar thread? Oh, right, you're a moron and it was decided DE Sidious>Exar

ESB Vader, please spare us your attitude of debating superiority. You're not. I have a hard time getting through your counterarguments because the grammar and sentence structure is revolting.

Let me make this plain.

By Dark Empire, Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord we've seen, yet. It has been proven that he is aware of all Dark Side based techniques, and he invents new ones at his leisure. Exar Kun, while an extremely gifted Force user - who would give Palpatine a run for his money - does not have Sidious's 90+ years of experience in the Force, nor was he properly trained in them, whereas Sidious was.

Palpatine > Exar Kun.

Palpatine > Nihilus.

Palpatine > Ragnos.

True, he is not leagues beyond either of them - but he is better. And, furthermore, you never know. Just because he is the most powerful Sith Lord doesn't make him the most powerful person ever.

I am of a mind to think that Luke could defeat him. If authors didn't screw up the image of Luke's power, I'd believe he'd rip through Sidious. Kyp, Jacen, Ragnos, Kun, and Nihilus would all prove to be worthy opponents - but they could not beat him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Want me to call you full of crap and point out it never de

And gee, he might've lost to Luke because y'know, Luke has anakin's potential, had tripled in power, had become an avatar of the lightside and had his sister and her baby to fight for.
In fact, that's exactly what's said. Luke>Anyone else but FP Anakin, sorry

Oh, and where was this DE Sidious vs. Exar thread? Oh, right, you're a moron and it was decided DE Sidious>Exar

prove it. JA luke whom is even stronger than DE luke got his ass kicked when exar beefed up kyps powers when he got intohim.
it took the entire jedi academy to fu*k exars spirit to hell

Originally posted by Escape81
ESB Vader, please spare us your attitude of debating superiority. You're not. I have a hard time getting through your counterarguments because the grammar and sentence structure is revolting.

Let me make this plain.

By Dark Empire, Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord we've seen, yet. It has been proven that he is aware of all Dark Side based techniques, and he invents new ones at his leisure. Exar Kun, while an extremely gifted Force user - who would give Palpatine a run for his money - does not have Sidious's 90+ years of experience in the Force, nor was he properly trained in them, whereas Sidious was.

Palpatine > Exar Kun.

Palpatine > Nihilus.

Palpatine > Ragnos.

True, he is not leagues beyond either of them - but he is better. And, furthermore, you never know. Just because he is the most powerful Sith Lord doesn't make him the most powerful person ever.

I am of a mind to think that Luke could defeat him. If authors didn't screw up the image of Luke's power, I'd believe he'd rip through Sidious. Kyp, Jacen, Ragnos, Kun, and Nihilus would all prove to be worthy opponents - but they could not beat him.

i can agree to that escape, but wouldnt draining sidious kill him? well yes sidious has alot of cheap shot techniques in the force, for palpatine to >>> nihilus, he is gonna have to strike first not with a force drain because nihilus is a wound, said so by visas, so palpatine would have to maybe shock him then chop him with a lightsaber, end of story

and in terms of techniques palpatine >>> all other sith
but wouldnt a full blast from exars amulet kill sidious?
sidious is really cocky which caused his hand to get hacked of by luke.

and yes those people you mentioned can kill him, its what they do, not just rush head to head with sidious which sidious will mop the floor with their hair