maces form, vapaad, is designed to look awkward. While appearing reckless on the surface, Windu knew exactly what he was doing. The end
result, if practiced correctly, was a very unpredictable lightsaber style. The staccato swings and flow of the form made it seem as if
the attacks were not linked—but in reality, it was merely confusing the opponent.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
lightsnake quit being a fanboy, proof hes telling the truth? u also have none do you and killing a few jedis in a 24 year span aint shit compared to tpm sidious mastering his techniques to his finest.and palpatine never allowed his skills to deteriorate? being smart doesnt mean you wont let your skills rusty, you can know everything about golf and be good at it but when u dont practise, the knowledge still remains but ur skills get rusty.
if palpatine never allowed his skills to fu*k up, then we should have seen him practising with the lightsaber for the 24 year span, you got no proof, the answer to why tpm sidious saber skills are better is already there, you are just refusing to think and go by "o he killed this guy, o he killed that guy so there fore his skills didnt get rusty". killing a few jedi after not practising still doesnt prove his skills are as good as he was in the movies
Palpatine never let his skills deteriorate and always tried to improve on them...this extends to saber ability.
Oh, wow! We don't SEE him practising with the saber! You mean, in stories where he never appears alone and is far better in DE than he was anywhere else must prove your point! Name one story where he's actually, y'know, ALONE where we see him in great detail. Can you prove ANY of this?
So, proof he didn't practice? No? Ok, shut up.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Here's proof: He has a case of sabers in his room, described as 'personal kills' by the emperor and boasts to Luke about it. Proof enough? Okay, then shut your trap and try to prove it wrong.Palpatine never let his skills deteriorate and always tried to improve on them...this extends to saber ability.
Oh, wow! We don't SEE him practising with the saber! You mean, in stories where he never appears alone and is far better in DE than he was anywhere else must prove your point! Name one story where he's actually, y'know, ALONE where we see him in great detail. Can you prove ANY of this?
So, proof he didn't practice? No? Ok, shut up.
just because he killed a few jedi does it mean wow "h3 !$ uBeR" llike i said man he did kill people but actual proof his skills are as good or better than when he kept practising day by day? simply you have none! you keep saying "o he got a !igHt$@B3r collecyion and described as personal kills" that "proof" of urs aint concrete enough so one thing, show me actual evidense that his skills are better than when he is before TPM when he pratises his saber abilities at his peak
want me to show proof he practises? read the comics where they show sidious and maul before TPM theres ur proof fanbrat
see? i was right u r a "mega" fanboy of DE sidious
Ok, let's see...he's good enough in DE to move faster than the eye can perceive and with Luke tear apart the throne room, and is in a better body?
And sorry, no Sidious with a lightsaber in any comic pre TPM, sorry, liar.
Proof he doesn't practice in the future? Yoda hadn't fought with a saber in centuries, were his abilities lesser by ROTS?
You have ANY proof minus 'he doesn't practice later because I say so!"?
Common sense here, Palpatine keeps in shape and keeps a saber ON HIM in DE. any proof? No? Ok
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ok, let's see...he's good enough in DE to move faster than the eye can perceive and with Luke tear apart the throne room, and is in a better body?And sorry, no Sidious with a lightsaber in any comic pre TPM, sorry, liar.
Proof he doesn't practice in the future? Yoda hadn't fought with a saber in centuries, were his abilities lesser by ROTS?
You have ANY proof minus 'he doesn't practice later because I say so!"?
Common sense here, Palpatine keeps in shape and keeps a saber ON HIM in DE. any proof? No? Ok
young lightsnake im about to hand you your ass for real this time.
number 1) just because the book says "s0 f@$t till cannot see" means he is good? thatsource book made alot of sh!t mistakes, they said he "mastered" every technique of the dark side which is total j@ck schitt
he didnt even master plagueis manipulation midi chlorian techniques.
- owned that book doesnt apply common sense and it came out before any of the movies, new information and common sense beats that old book
number2) yoda is not a dumb ass, he obviously did practise with a saber for 800 years in the jedi council that was why he is still good being able to fight with sith lords - dooku and sidious
number3) even if i cant prove he practised for 30 years what about the 6 years he spent as a spirit floating in the galaxy before he got into his clones? even if u slack for a month u will fall more and more and more. talk about 6 years of not doing so, of not even being physical, that even happened to exar kun who could only possess kyp.
last but not least your sources are outdated.
are you gonna claim "o sears towers are the tallest because this book says so" when the record has already been broken? see point proven, you use old books as a source which cant compare to the new things lucas arts came out with,
even nihilus master force drain, kreia already said it cannot be taught
again the DE series fu*ked up and became flawed
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Proof he trained with a saber? Hypocrite much?
Although I mostly agree with you, it was said that Yoda was one of the only people ever to best Mace, so its pretty clear that Yoda did at least once spar with Mace which would mean that he had practised in the last century.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
young lightsnake im about to hand you your ass for real this time.number 1) just because the book says "s0 f@$t till cannot see" means he is good? thatsource book made alot of sh!t mistakes, they said he "mastered" every technique of the dark side which is total j@ck schitt
he didnt even master plagueis manipulation midi chlorian techniques.
- owned that book doesnt apply common sense and it came out before any of the movies, new information and common sense beats that old booknumber2) yoda is not a dumb ass, he obviously did practise with a saber for 800 years in the jedi council that was why he is still good being able to fight with sith lords - dooku and sidious
number3) even if i cant prove he practised for 30 years what about the 6 years he spent as a spirit floating in the galaxy before he got into his clones? even if u slack for a month u will fall more and more and more. talk about 6 years of not doing so, of not even being physical, that even happened to exar kun who could only possess kyp.
last but not least your sources are outdated.
are you gonna claim "o sears towers are the tallest because this book says so" when the record has already been broken? see point proven, you use old books as a source which cant compare to the new things lucas arts came out with,even nihilus master force drain, kreia already said it cannot be taught
again the DE series fu*ked up and became flawed
Oh, except...no. It's canon he mastered every technique so your opinion is invalid.
Palpatine's not a dumb ass either so he must have practiced too. Your logic really sucks.
My sources are outdated? Sorry, kid, but sources don't get outdated. Unless they're contradicted they remain, and Palp knowing everything and killing Jedi was never once contradicted. Even Maul thinks on the few Jedi he and 'his master' killed in Shadow Hunter.
Sorry, but the new things don't contradict the old!
Oooh, and DE Sidious knew Force Drain and used it and since there's no retcon and sources even said sidious drained the inhabitants of Byss AFTER KOTOR 2 came out in 2004...well, there goes your argument. Seems poor little Kreia's a bit out of her league.
Originally posted by Jen'ari
Although I mostly agree with you, it was said that Yoda was one of the only people ever to best Mace, so its pretty clear that Yoda did at least once spar with Mace which would mean that he had practised in the last century.
Hey, Jen'ari,
Where did you find that info?
I was reading the ROTS novel, and I noticed that Obi Wan says to Yoda that Mace, Kit Fisto, and the others who went to arrest the Chancellor were the greatest swordsmen of the Order. I think "greatest" was the word he used. In any case, IMHO, "greatest" implies "the best ever," while "best" means that you are the best of your own time. With that in mind, I would say that maybe Mace is the best of the Jedi Order (I'm not considering the Sith in this argument), considering that Obi Wan (a master himself who is the best defensive duelist) acknowledges that Mace and those with him were the greatest. Further, even Yoda seems to agree with Kenobi in that short dialogue.
I don't count Mace's fight with Sidious to mean anything simply because I think that Sidious knew Anakin would come to help him as he was fighting Mace. He even called to Anakin telepathically while Anakin waited in the council chambers, and Mace noticed that Sidious wasn't threatened by Anakin's presence when he finally showed up during the battle. In other words, Sidious was putting on a huge act, and I'm not certain how the fight would have gone had Mace and Sidious been fighting all out. Still, I would think that Mace is arguably a stronger swordsman than Yoda. I'm not inclined to count on a "sparring match" just because the opponents still have restrictions. Just my two cents.
Also, considering that Yoda was a Jedi consular, I wouldn't expect him to be the baddest "mofo" with a lightsaber.
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
I was reading the ROTS novel, and I noticed that Obi Wan says to Yoda that Mace, Kit Fisto, and the others who went to arrest the Chancellor were the greatest swordsmen of the Order. I think "greatest" was the word he used. In any case, IMHO, "greatest" implies "the best ever," while "best" means that you are the best of your own time. With that in mind, I would say that maybe Mace is the best of the Jedi Order (I'm not considering the Sith in this argument), considering that Obi Wan (a master himself who is the best defensive duelist) acknowledges that Mace and those with him were the greatest. Further, even Yoda seems to agree with Kenobi in that short dialogue.
Actually, it doesn't say they are the greatest. It says, taken directly from the novelization:
"Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself."
-- Revenge of the Sith novelization, Chapter 19.
"Of the greatest" clearly doesn't mean they are the best in any way. Just they are among the best. Agen, Saesee, and Kit aren't on top or anything like that as we obviously know. And also, they are far from "the best ever". And Kenobi's dialogue of "our Order has ever produced" counts for jack shit when you consider Kenobi doesn't even know a quarter of all the swordsmen the Jedi Order has produced. Seeing as it stems back thousands of years.
I don't count Mace's fight with Sidious to mean anything simply because I think that Sidious knew Anakin would come to help him as he was fighting Mace.
Oh he knew, did he? Just like he knew Darth Vader would benchpress him into a reactor core with one arm, right?
Prove he knew. I'd submit not, considering the lightsaber duel in the ROTS novelization is described exactly as:
"Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift"
This implies they are equal with a lightsaber, considering that's all they were doing. It was Mace's gift of Shatterpoint which allowed him to win. So, from this we can gauge Mace was, at most, equal to Sidious in saber combat. Force-wise he's inferior, though.
He even called to Anakin telepathically while Anakin waited in the council chambers,
No, he did not. If we're talking about the same thing, all you hear are Palpatine's voice speaking. I could just as easily say it was just the words spoken to Anakin off screen repeating in his head as no other material concedes to what you're saying.
and Mace noticed that Sidious wasn't threatened by Anakin's presence when he finally showed up during the battle. In other words, Sidious was putting on a huge act, and I'm not certain how the fight would have gone had Mace and Sidious been fighting all out.
Sidious was only acting when Anakin arrived, before that - in the duel - he lost seemingly legit. And also, why the hell would Sidious be threatened? He had Anakin on the verge of corruption, and he was an easy pawn to bend to his will. He did trust Anakin after all, as that was his Shatterpoint.
Also, considering that Yoda was a Jedi consular, I wouldn't expect him to be the baddest "mofo" with a lightsaber.
Consular? Lol. Since when is there such a thing like "class" outside of KOTOR games? Considering he's better than Dooku with a blade, I'd say he's no pushover. He's obviously the best with a blade in the Order from what else we know.