Originally posted by ThePittman
What would you call someone that knew what you were already going to do and said that if you choose this option (and they already do) you will be punished unless you believe what I believe?I just can’t understand how someone can believe so strongly in a religion that has be written by men who crave power and been twisted over time to suit their needs. There have been more wars and killing in the “name of God” then you can count, people have used religion as a tool to control the masses and to obtain and justify their goals while looking to be the “better” to the people.
Read the Gospel According to John from beginning to end and you will come a way a follower of Jesus. I do not believe in a religion, I believe in a Person (Jesus Christ) that is the difference. The religions of the world usually follow some sinful person or set of religious works. It is not the case with those who follow Jesus.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Read the Gospel According to John from beginning to end and you will come a way a follower of Jesus. I do not believe in a religion, I believe in a Person (Jesus Christ) that is the difference. The religions of the world usually follow some sinful person or set of religious works. It is not the case with those who follow Jesus.
Don't you want to find out MORE about Jesus than just what the Bible says, then? Do you read the Dead Sea Scrolls or Gnostic Texts? Do you sample Biblical Historical texts written by academics which look for other evidence for Bible texts? I'm not saying they are any more or less true than anything else, but certainly are worth reading as they provide a different viewpoint of Jesus - but a viewpoint nonetheless.
Originally posted by Mithlond
Don't you want to find out MORE about Jesus than just what the Bible says, then? Do you read the Dead Sea Scrolls or Gnostic Texts? Do you sample Biblical Historical texts written by academics which look for other evidence for Bible texts? I'm not saying they are any more or less true than anything else, but certainly are worth reading as they provide a different viewpoint of Jesus - but a viewpoint nonetheless.
The 66 Books of the Bible constitute the full revelation of God to humanity.
Untrue! They constitute a 4th Century Bishop's interpretation of that revelation.
Edit - look at the Wikipedia entry for the history of the Bible. It had books added/removed for many many years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
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Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is good, anymore questions?A good judge upholds justice and righteousness right? God is Judge of all the universe (higher than a supreme court justice). As Judge God must judge sinners and hold them accountable for breaking his laws (His Word). If God didn't punish the sinner for his/her sins then He would not be a good, righteous Judge. On the flip side God is also Love which is why He sent Jesus (His Son) to die for the sins of the whole world...man I just have to pause and thank God in my heart for His mercy....
God could have just thrown us all in Hell and locked the gates. But He didn't. He knows that He must judge sinners and hold them accountable but He loves us so much that He found another way to deal with our sins. But it involved a sacrifice: the very life of His own Son. God placed the sins of the whole world (those who have died, those living, and those who have yet to be born in sin) on Jesus and punished Him for our sins. Now that sin (our sins, not Jesus's sins because Jesus never sinned) have already been judged and punished God can extend mercy, grace, and forgiveness to anyone who asks for that forgiveness. But here is the only stipulation: since Jesus is the one Who did the suffering, and Who took our punishment for sin, then by virtue of this fact we must come to Jesus and ask for this forgiveness from sins. Otherwise we will suffer for our sins (because we choose to. Our sins have already been punished thanks to Jesus so there is no excuse for going to Hell when you die). Don't blame God. God made a way for us to skip Hell, if we reject it then we get what we deserve. The righteous Judge (God) has justly placed us where we belong.
I believe in reason. I would not accept anything that is irrational and contradicts logic. The existence of human (even animal) spirit may not be verifiable in labs and by our scientific methods yet, but the important thing is that it is not against reason. There are many realities that are beyond human reason, i.e. you cannot reach them by reason alone. Yet the point is that they should not be unreasonable either.
Existence of God as a Reality or a Principle cannot be determined by scientific methods and it is beyond reason. It is not unreasonable, in fact it is very reasonable to assume that there is a principle underlying the creation. But the existence of a deity, as described by Judeo-Christian religions, is utterly unreasonable. Although the characteristics of this deity has changed gradually and the god of Moses who was a smoke-like anthromorphic god and the god of Rumi who is an unknowable essence are not the same, the general concept of this god has not changes. God in all these religions is a “being”. It is no more a physical being, and it may not be even a spiritual being, but it is still a being. It is a god that resembles humans. We don’t envision him any more as an old patriarch but we attribute to him our own human characteristics. He is no more imagined in our physical semblance, and some even hesitate to call him with a gender-biased pronoun. Yet in our subconscious mind God is our father, best friend, someone to pray to, someone to worship, someone to rely upon, and someone who loves us. We assume that God is intelligent, loving, caring, mighty, wise, help in peril and someone who would eventually come to succor us if we knocked on his door supplicating with utmost humility and meekness. He is a god that worries about us, who sends messengers to guide us, who rewards us either by giving us access to his paradise or by allowing us to associate with him more intimately when we die.
But this god is also a jealous god and is very paranoid. He does not like us worshiping another god and feels restless when we busy ourselves, making a living or enjoying life and forget to bow in front of him, (who is apparently everywhere) constantly. His messengers tell us that we should worship him for our own sake. But you don’t have to be Freud to realize that he actually enjoys being known and worshiped. In fact, if you fail to do so, he is offended so much that would take you to his cosmic rotisserie and barbeque you forever.
His messengers tell us that he has sent them to teach us to be righteous. Apart from the fact that for this mighty task he often chooses men who do not walk their own talk and themselves live less than honorable lives, which in the case of his favorite Prophet was scandalous, he has made it clear that living righteously is not enough. We have to recognize him also through his messengers. Without that recognition, none of our good deeds would count. But the problem does not end there. Despite the fact that each time he sends a messenger he makes it clear, in one way or another, that this messenger is the only and exclusive way to him or that he is the last one, he surprises us by sending new massagers at the least expected moments and in the most unlikely places, often choosing the less educated and the most ignorant among the men. Then he expects us to find these new messengers with the purity of our own heart but without the use of our brain. If we fail to do so, even if we already praise him, all of our worships become null and when we die we are given a one-way ticket to hell.
To know god is a very serious business. If you make a mistake you know where you end up. So you are left on your own to find your way through this maze.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I believe that the Bible reveals that God is omnipotent. God is referred to as the "Almighty." In other words, God is "all-powerful" or "omnipotent."
1. If God exists, then he is transcendent (i.e., outside space and time).
2. If God exists, then he is omnipresent.
3. To be transcendent, a being cannot exist anywhere in space.
4. To be omnipresent, a being must exist everywhere in space.
5. Hence, it is impossible for a transcendent being to be omnipresent (from 3 and 4).
6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist (from 1, 2, and 5).
Re: Re: Re: What does this mean to you?
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveGod could have just thrown us all in Hell and locked the gates. But He didn't. He knows that He must judge sinners and hold them accountable but He loves us so much that He found another way to deal with our sins. But it involved a sacrifice: the very life of His own Son. God placed the sins of the whole world (those who have died, those living, and those who have yet to be born in sin) on Jesus and punished Him for our sins. Now that sin (our sins, not Jesus's sins because Jesus never sinned) have already been judged and punished God can extend mercy, grace, and forgiveness to anyone who asks for that forgiveness. But here is the only stipulation: since Jesus is the one Who did the suffering, and Who took our punishment for sin, then by virtue of this fact we must come to Jesus and ask for this forgiveness from sins. Otherwise we will suffer for our sins (because we choose to. Our sins have already been punished thanks to Jesus so there is no excuse for going to Hell when you die). Don't blame God. God made a way for us to skip Hell, if we reject it then we get what we deserve. The righteous Judge (God) has justly placed us where we belong.
It is only partially true that Jesus forgives sins. According to Christianity, after people are created they will live forever - first for a few decades on earth and then for eternity in either heaven or hell. Jesus will forgive people's sins while they live in the world but for the rest of eternity he will refuse to do so, no matter how frequently or how pitifully the souls in hell may call upon his name. So Jesus' forgiveness is limited to a minute period of time in a person's existence after which he will withhold it. So most people will never escape from the consequences of their supposed sin.
Can Buddhists escape from their kamma? The doctrine of kamma teaches that every action (kamma) has an effect (vipaka). However this effect is not always equal to its cause. For example, if a person steals something this act will have a negative effect. If however after the theft the person feels remorse, returns the stolen article, and sincerely resolves to try to be more careful in the future, the negative effect of the theft may be mitigated. There would still be an effect although not as strong. But even if the thief does not mitigate the wrong which has been done with some good, he or she will be free from the deed after its effect comes to fruition. So according to Buddhism we can be free from our kamma while according to Christianity our sins will only be forgiven during an extremely limited period of time.
There are other ways in which the doctrine of kamma is better than the Christian ideas of forgiveness and punishment. In Buddhism while one may have to endure the negative effects of the evil one has done (which is only fair) this means that one will experience the positive effects of the good one has done as well. This is not so in Christianity. For example, a non-Christian may be honest, merciful, generous and kind yet despite this at death this person will go to hell and not receive any reward for the good he or she has done. Furthermore, according to the doctrine of kamma the effects we experience, all things being equal, are in direct proportion to their cause. Again this is not so in Christianity - even if a person is exceptionally evil during this life, eternal hell is an utterly disproportionate punishment. How much more is this so if the person is virtuous but non-Christian? Indeed the eternity of hell, and the idea that all non-Christians are condemned to it, are teachings which cast very serious doubts on the concept of a just and loving God.
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Originally posted by mahasattva
It is only partially true that Jesus forgives sins. According to Christianity, after people are created they will live forever - first for a few decades on earth and then for eternity in either heaven or hell. Jesus will forgive people's sins while they live in the world but for the rest of eternity he will refuse to do so, no matter how frequently or how pitifully the souls in hell may call upon his name. So Jesus' forgiveness is limited to a minute period of time in a person's existence after which he will withhold it. So most people will never escape from the consequences of their supposed sin.Can Buddhists escape from their kamma? The doctrine of kamma teaches that every action (kamma) has an effect (vipaka). However this effect is not always equal to its cause. For example, if a person steals something this act will have a negative effect. If however after the theft the person feels remorse, returns the stolen article, and sincerely resolves to try to be more careful in the future, the negative effect of the theft may be mitigated. There would still be an effect although not as strong. But even if the thief does not mitigate the wrong which has been done with some good, he or she will be free from the deed after its effect comes to fruition. So according to Buddhism we can be free from our kamma while according to Christianity our sins will only be forgiven during an extremely limited period of time.
There are other ways in which the doctrine of kamma is better than the Christian ideas of forgiveness and punishment. In Buddhism while one may have to endure the negative effects of the evil one has done (which is only fair) this means that one will experience the positive effects of the good one has done as well. This is not so in Christianity. For example, a non-Christian may be honest, merciful, generous and kind yet despite this at death this person will go to hell and not receive any reward for the good he or she has done. Furthermore, according to the doctrine of kamma the effects we experience, all things being equal, are in direct proportion to their cause. Again this is not so in Christianity - even if a person is exceptionally evil during this life, eternal hell is an utterly disproportionate punishment. How much more is this so if the person is virtuous but non-Christian? Indeed the eternity of hell, and the idea that all non-Christians are condemned to it, are teachings which cast very serious doubts on the concept of a just and loving God.
How many times do I have to write that God (via His holy Word, the holy Bible) states that we are not saved by our works. In other words, God does not accept or use our good, moral actions as a basis for determining where we go when we die. God has a totally different criterion: the sacrifice of His sinless Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That Mahasattva is the only criterion that God will use. To understand why this is true it would behoove you to read the Book of Leviticus. The Book of Leviticus substantially deals with animal sacrifices (namely an unblemished [unspotted] lamb). Those varied animal sacrifices were ordained by God and they were necessary to "atone for" or "cover over" the sins of the children of Israel (God's people). But those sacrifices could never "remove" or "take away" the sins of God's people. It could only cover them up. The Old Testament is replete with types, shadows, and prefigurements of Christ. They all point to the moment in history when the True Sacrifice or "Lamb of God" would shed His holy, sinless blood on the cross to "take away the sin of the world." That is why when John the Baptist (Jesus' relative) saw Jesus coming toward him he said, "Behold! the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world! Jesus' holy, sinless blood takes our sins away and cleanses our conscience. The ninth and tenth chapter of the Book of Hebrews talks about these eternal truths.
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Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
How many times do I have to write that God (via His holy Word, the holy Bible) states that we are not saved by our works. In other words, God does not accept or use our good, moral actions as a basis for determining where we go when we die. God has a totally different criterion: the sacrifice of His sinless Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That Mahasattva is the only criterion that God will use. To understand why this is true it would behoove you to read the Book of Leviticus. The Book of Leviticus substantially deals with animal sacrifices (namely an unblemished [unspotted] lamb). Those varied animal sacrifices were ordained by God and they were necessary to "atone for" or "cover over" the sins of the children of Israel (God's people). But those sacrifices could never "remove" or "take away" the sins of God's people. It could only cover them up. The Old Testament is replete with types, shadows, and prefigurements of Christ. They all point to the moment in history when the True Sacrifice or "Lamb of God" would shed His holy, sinless blood on the cross to "take away the sin of the world." That is why when John the Baptist (Jesus' relative) saw Jesus coming toward him he said, "Behold! the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world! Jesus' holy, sinless blood takes our sins away and cleanses our conscience. The ninth and tenth chapter of the Book of Hebrews talks about these eternal truths.
Animal sacrifice is barbaric, and equating of the death of Jesus with that of a animal sacrifice is just as barbaric.