NBA discussion thread

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
One question

Do you favor the Lakers trying to get pieces to win now, or building a team up for the future?

I've answered that in nearly every post about this subject, you just seem to be ignoring it.
I'll make it as simple as i can for you, i want the Lakers to put the pieces around Kobe to win now (that hasnt changed). What i dont want the Lakers to is to overpay in trades, which i think they are in the JO trade (one of our disagreements). If it was KG i'd pack Lamar and Bynum's bags myself but JO is not on KG's level. I have always been in favor of building around Kobe and would love to see him get a championship as a Laker, the problem is that Kobe by all accounts doesnt want to be a Laker anymore and i seem to be the only one here that can see that (or maybe you are in denial).
I understand that to you me even talking about the Lakers trading Kobe and even having the nerve to post a team without Kobe means that i have abandoned him and what him shipped out, but i am just being realistic. If he hadnt said he wanted to be traded (he has met with Buss and Kupchak last week to reiterate those demands) then i wouldnt even be discussing it. Obviously i would rather keep Kobe, but thats not my call and im just preparing for the worst. He has burnt alot of bridges in the last month and even though he was right to say we need to improve, saying that he "would rather play on Pluto" is a slap in the face of any Laker fan who has supported him his whole career.
I hope this had made it clear where i stand (even though it should have been clear the whole time), i want Kobe to finish his career as a Laker like my favorite all time player Magic. The question you have to ask is does Kobe?

In a matter of days, that sorry excuse of a basketball player Andrew Bynum and that other sorry excuse of a ball player Lamar Odom should be out the the door and hello KG. KG and Kobe should make a great tandom.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2916217

Originally posted by koolruningz
I've answered that in nearly every post about this subject, you just seem to be ignoring it.

You haven't said that in any of your post in this whole entire thread. Don't make shit up and then get mad when someone doesn't "comprehend" an invisible post. You show me where you said that then I will say I was wrong but I'm not ignoring a GOD DAMN thing in your post, you can go ahead and get that shit out of your head right now. Your eyes aren't open to what is happening. You are forgetting past events and seems like you don't know everything that is going on. Make it your priority to be informed before you start arguing with me.

Your the only Lakers fan that I have come across that feels like it was a slap in the face. But I know why you feel that way, it's obvious, its because you aren't informed on the whole situation. You either have short term memory loss, don't know what happened, or you are intentionally forgetting that the organization lied to Kobe to get him to sign a contract. If someone did that to me I would want to go play on Pluto too.

Pay attention and open your eyes. Your points are moot because you obviously don't know what happened. And if you do then you I wouldn't mind if Kobe slapped you in the face, maybe that sense you showed earlier in the season would come back and show itself.

Here are some of my quotes from the last 10 or so pages and if you cant understand that i would like the Lakers to keep Kobe and build around him i dont know what to tell you. None of them are made up shit and i am obviously not the one who is mad and throwing his toys out of the playpen.

I want the Lakers to improve and i would like them to get JO, the only way my opinion differs from yours is the fact that i think Odom and Bynum (and others because of JO's huge salary) is paying too much.

Look im not trying to excuse the poor job the front office has done these past few years (seriously read my posts, not just the bits you disagree with) but like it or not we are stuck with them. Im hoping that we can improve the team around Kobe and he comes back next season happy, id like Lamar to be on the team also but if he's not i hope we got fair value for him (he is a better player than you give him credit for).

I want Kobe to stay with the Lakers but as ive said before he doesnt seem to want to be a Laker anymore.

Kobe has every right to be disappointed in the Lakers front office for the terrible job they have done trying to get back to the elite level. Smush Parker starting for 2yrs? Extending Kwame, Sasha and Cooks contracts? These are not the actions of a front office that are committed to winning right now.

Obviously i would rather keep Kobe but it seems his mind is made up and he can pretty much pick who he wants to be traded to with his no trade clause.
Im pissed that it has come to this, first we trade Shaq (who even though he was on the decline, changes the game) and now probably Kobe the games best player in his prime.

All of those answer your question about whether i want the Lakers to build for now or the future, but i have also factored in the fact that Kobe has stated very publicly that he doesnt want to play for the Lakers anymore.
Let me ask you a question, if Kobe doesnt want to play for the Lakers then what good does trading Lamar and Bynum do us? You seem to be operating under the premise that Kobe wants to stay when all the evidence says otherwise, why is that? If you are so much more informed than me and know for sure that Kobe is staying then please tell me and i can sleep easier.
Just because someone disagrees with you no need to get hostile, i've tried to be respectful to you but you are doing your best to make that impossible. Sure you say i showed sense earlier in the season because i agreed with you, but now we have different opinions all of a sudden i've forgotten all the this knowledge about a team i've supported for over 20yrs and i have my head in the sand - excellent reasoning genius.
You seem to take it very personally when someone disagrees with you (teampac, Myth, Dan from recent memory), how about instead of typing in caps and insulting people try to understand their point of view.

Understand your point of view? You mean bull shit? Actually I'm sure I can go back and find quotes where you favored building towards the future, which is why I said you are up and down and is why I asked the question.

1. Lakers said they aren't trading Kobe

2. If they get a legitimate 2nd option he would WANT to stay...pay attention. There is a reason why he wanted to be traded. Getting Jermaine O'Neal would change his mind.

You were making sense earlier in the season not because I agreed with you, because you were actually making sense. You were making smart and understandable post, now....what can I say? But I don't expect a person who thinks getting Gordon, PJ Brown, and Selfolosha in a trade for Kobe being fair value to understand anything that even comes close to making sense. I am convinced you are Mitch Kupchak. If you think Odom and Bynum would be too much for Jermaine O'Neal then you haven't been watching any other team than the Lakers. Which is understandable with where you live. But I did epxect you to know more about this situation than just the Lakers point of view. I expected you to not think it was a slap in the face for a man to want to play somewhere else because an organization lied to get him to sign a contract then tried to say he got Shaq traded. if you think that is a slap in the face then you have sadly mistaken like you have done numerous times.

Kobe wants to win, and he isn't going to do that with Bynum and Odom. What part about that don't you understand? Do you want this franchise to be losers? Because that is what its sounding like.

Your inability to put two and two together is laughable. If we don't trade Bynum and Odom for a legitimate 2nd option, then Kobe is gone. But you say you would rather we build around Kobe but you don't want to trade Bynum and Odom for Jermaine O'Neal because it would be too much. Do you realize if we don't do anything this offseason Kobe is gone? As hard as it may be for your brain to do this simple task, I'm going to have to ask you to try again, try to "comprehend" this, I will help you out.

If.We.Don't.Trade.For.A.Second.Option.Kobe.Will.Be.Gone.

We.Will.Then.Be.Stuck.With.Inconsistent.Odom.And.Bynum.

We.Will.fail.To.Win.20.Games.

Lottery.

Kobe.Will.Stay.If.We.get.Jermaine.O'Neal.

You.Are.Contradicting.Yourself.

Keep.Kobe.or.Keep.Bynum.And.Odom

Choose.

I hope this helps you understand, if not then shit

"This company lied to me to get me to sign a contract that says I have to be their sex slave, I don't want to be their sex slave, but it would be a slap in the face to the employees to say I want out."

Ok i've tried to remain civil but you've made that impossible with your insults. If you're so sure you can find these quotes then go back and find them, talk is cheap. I've never said i want to build for the future i'm just open to the possibility because of Kobe's trade demands, its called being rational but i guess that is something you havent learned yet.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
1. Lakers said they aren't trading Kobe

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
2. If they get a legitimate 2nd option he would WANT to stay...pay attention. There is a reason why he wanted to be traded. Getting Jermaine O'Neal would change his mind.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
You were making sense earlier in the season not because I agreed with you, because you were actually making sense. You were making smart and understandable post, now....what can I say?

Originally posted by Lord Evolution But I don't expect a person who thinks getting Gordon, PJ Brown, and Selfolosha in a trade for Kobe being fair value to understand anything that even comes close to making sense.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution I am convinced you are Mitch Kupchak.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution If you think Odom and Bynum would be too much for Jermaine O'Neal then you haven't been watching any other team than the Lakers. Which is understandable with where you live.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution But I did epxect you to know more about this situation than just the Lakers point of view. I expected you to not think it was a slap in the face for a man to want to play somewhere else because an organization lied to get him to sign a contract then tried to say he got Shaq traded. if you think that is a slap in the face then you have sadly mistaken like you have done numerous times.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution Kobe wants to win, and he isn't going to do that with Bynum and Odom. What part about that don't you understand? Do you want this franchise to be losers? Because that is what its sounding like.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution Your inability to put two and two together is laughable.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution If we don't trade Bynum and Odom for a legitimate 2nd option, then Kobe is gone. But you say you would rather we build around Kobe but you don't want to trade Bynum and Odom for Jermaine O'Neal because it would be too much.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution Do you realize if we don't do anything this offseason Kobe is gone?

The rest of your post isnt worth responding to, just more childish dribble. I would suggest before you question my intelligence you look in the mirror first.

His mind isn't made up, that is why he keeps changing it. You call one day saying "I want to be traded" then hours later saying "I don't want to be traded" having your mind made up? The hell is wrong with you? I guess a street light has its mind made up on green doesn't it?

I think you took that location remark a bit too serious. Looks like you got some issues to work out man.

If you insist on acting like a little [female dog] every time I respond to your post then so be it.

Sounds to me like his mind is already made up and its only a month into the offseason, maybe he will change his mind (again)

Again, contradicting yourself. 😆 That has to be the most blatant contradictory statement I have ever read on these boards.

Everybody has their different opinions, you are right(finally), but that doesn't mean arguments about those opinions shouldn't exist. I don't agree with you and I will argue with you, stop being a little girl.

I am a Lakers fan first, but even I will admit they are in the wrong here. Kobe is a true Laker, and I'm a true Lakers fan and as a true Lakers fan I will not be so willing to let a guy who helped us win 3 championships go. Especially when the other guy is someone who doesn't give 100% and is inconsistent and has helped the Lakers get eliminated in the first round the past 2 seasons. I would trade the whole team away before I traded Kobe and we would probably win more games. You tell me what Lamar has attributed to this team? Now tell me what Bynum has given to this team?

Add both of those answers up and it wouldn't even be .000001% of what Kobe has done for the city of LA, the Los Angelas Lakers and their fans. My main probalem with you is how easily you were willing to just accept Kobe getting traded but don't want to let go of Bynum and Odom, when one does that I start to question their sanity.

Kobe IS the Lakers right now and don't forget that.

.....New Zealand has satellite TV??????

j/k

Again with the insults, i guess that just masks the fact that you havent really got anything new to say.
You think i took the location remark too seriously, i say i was just defending myself and letting you know that i do know what im talking about. Take it as you please.
Im the one trying to respond to your rants in a calm manner, you're the one who insists on making it personal and acting like a 10yr old. If you cant get your point across without insulting people (not just me) then you wont be taken very seriously here or anywhere else.
You can argue all you like its your time you're wasting, its not going to change my opinion and it will continue to make you look like a spoilt child.
The sad thing in all of this is that i only disagreed with a couple of your points and you have been on the attack ever since, either you have a bizarre need to prove you are right all the time or you just have too much time on your hands. Either way its sad that you cant entertain the fact that we both want the Lakers to win but we just have different ideas of how to get there. Not once have i said you were wrong for thinking we should trade Odom and Bynum for JO i have just stated my opinion on the matter.
Anyway here's a little test for you seeing as you are the master GM, how about you tell me what you would do this off season to get the Lakers to the elite level that Kobe has said he wants them to be at. What trades would you make? Who would you get with the MLE and Vet Min? What 15 man roster would you have on opening night? How would you balance out the roster? Lets see if you really are the great GM you profess to be.
Lastly the reason i keep saying that Kobe has made up his mind to leave is the fact that there are reports that he met with Buss and Kupchak last week (this is in your local paper by the way) to reiterate his trade demands, his own Website has had a farewell to LA post up for the last month (only the date has changed - to show he is still in the same mindset), Ric Bucher (Kobe's BSPN mouthpiece) has stated almost religiously that there is no way Kobe wants to play for the Lakers again and finally the infamous video in which Kobe himself is caught on camera trashing Bynum, Buss and Kupchak and telling fans to buy their Bulls jerseys. All of that gives me reason to question you when you seem to be so sure that he is staying if he ship Odom and Bynum for JO. Im just going by the evidence that i have and i got all that from my little mud hut in New Zealand, go figure.

I don't care how you respond to my post, just know that the way I respond to yours will not be changing. You can act like a little girl and curl up in your corner every time someone insults you or you can come back at them. What do you expect? This is the internet, I know this isn't the first time you have been insulted. Personally I don't let anyones words get to me on the internet, you don't even have to be tough to achieve that, but you most certainly can't be a female dog like you are being right now.

I don't care how many of my points you disagree with, a point is a point and I strongly disagree with your point and it just so happens to be something I evidently know more than you about.

Lets put it like this, if you were a GM you would run a team into the ground. The locals would have burned your house down by now. Before I called you Mitch, now I just think you are worse. Especially if you think getting Gordon, Brown and Selfalosha would be the best possible offer out there on the table. This is not Kwame Brown we are talking here. This is a young Kobe Bryant who is the best player in the league, a first ballot hall of famer, 3 time NBA champion and the face of this Lakers organization. That trade you put up is an insult to ALL Lakers fans and not even Mitch would pull the trigger on that one. I have told you many times what I want the Lakers to do, who I want on the team and who I want gone and what my plan would be.

I know its asking a lot of you, but you just have to be smart. You have failed to do that about this whole ordeal. The moves you would have made would be catastrophic to the city of LA. But I guess you wouldn't have to worry about that being in New Zealand and all. Have you thought about what you are saying? Where the Lakers would be if they did half the things you think they should do? I have said it many times but I'm just going to say it again, LOTTERY. For many years we would be in the lottery. We can barely comepete now with Kobe carrying every single person on this roster. Just try to think, at least try to think about what your moves would do to this franchise.

If I didn't know you was a Lakers fan I and I read your plan, I would think you were trying to single handedly destroy this franchise because of some fiery vendetta. Thank god you are a Lakers fan. If we are to be dismantled, I would want it to be done by one of our own.

You obviously have a problem against professional players speaking their minds and also common sense. Kobe was at a store, he was speaking to some guys who asked him some questions. He didn't know he was being taped but that doesn't matter because he spoke his mind. I don't have a problem with anyone speaking their minds, I don't care who you are, you can be a plumber, athlete, door to door salesman I wouldn't care. Kobe said those things because he feels that way and I know almost all Lakers fans do too. You can't expect things to get done just by sitting back and not taking action. You know the kind of people who do that? I'll give you a hint, it's a cat and it rhymes with tussies.

I bet you expected Kobe to just sit back and wait huh? Like he has been doing for the past 3 seasons? Do you not understand that the lakers were building towards the future? That directly contradicts your point about the Lakers allegedly speaking to Indiana about getting Jermaine O'Neal before Kobe said anything. Have you already forgotten the interview where Kobe said they told Phil they were rebuilding? Do you not understand that that would mean that they were not looking to get Jermaine O'Neal? Try your best to think about these things and make some sense of it.

Snap back to reality, Lakers were not trying to get Jermaine O'Neal or anyone else that would have helped Kobe. Kobe knew this, they knew this, Phil knew this, and as of a few weeks ago, the general public knew this, except you apparently.

LOL Lakers give Kobe a plane ride now all of a sudden he is in their debts? LMAO I almost threw up when I read that. o It's not like he hasn't given anything to this franchise, not like his back hurts from carrying not only the dead weight on the team but organization itself because I guarantee you they would hav went bankrupt if Kobe wasn't on the team.

Im starting to think you've got ADD or something the way you just seem to take a deep breath and just spew it all out over the page without thinking.
The reason i mentioned your insults was that because i have always treated you with respect i figured you would do the same, seeing as you cant do that then fire away tough guy - you only make yourself look stupid in the process. I try to treat all the regulars on here with respect especially Laker fans, but if you want to throw insults around rather than address the issues then be my guest. You can continue to operate under the illusion that because i take offense to your tone that i am "curled up in the corner like a little girl" but i just dont see the need to attack you to get my point across. Trust me if i wanted to it wouldnt be that hard seeing as how stupid you make yourself look with every post.
Way to dodge the GM test Einstein, i only wanted to know how you would build a contender and the finished roster. Whats so hard about that? If you are so much more informed than me you should be able to do that in your sleep, you certainly have enough time to keep bringing up the trade i suggested. Name me a better one you have seen out there , remember that i said that was the best trade i have seen for Kobe and not that i wanted to trade him (and you keep leaving out Thomas for some reason). This shouldnt be too hard for you seeing as you know so much.
You ask me if i have thought it through when i have done little else since Kobe made his demands. I have spent hours on the internet getting as much info as i can on realistic trade scenarios should the worse happen, what have you done other than repeat the same shit again and again. Once again and hopefully for the last time, i dont want this trade to happen but if does i'd rather take that than some of the other offers i have heard. Also remember that Kobe has a no trade clause (do you no what that is) so you cant just create fantasy trades to teams that he has no intention of going to.
Now i'll leave it to you to ignore all the rational points i've made and fly off into one of your tantrums, im done with this i've explained my position and any intelligent person reading this could have seen it pages back. I've wasted enough of my time at work with this shit im not going to let it take away the time i spend with my wife and kids at home. Honestly trying to make you see another side of the equation is like pissing against the wind - pointless.

Kobe still wants to be traded. I hope it doesn't happen.

I find it funny that you keep saying that you aren't the one doing the insulting yet in your lost 10 post I can find at least a few dozen insults. But I can dish it and take it, you obviously can dish it but you can't take it. Stop trying to make me look like the bad guy, you are doing the same thing I am, EXACTLY the same thing. Do you not realize this wise guy? Do you honestly believe you have made any rational points? I call it trash, you can call it whatever you want but they definitely aren't rational. I will continue to talk to you as I am right now until someone knocks some sense into you, I thought that slap in the face Kobe gave you and only you would have done the trick but obviously not. But you are a hypocrite but you just don't realize it yet.

But keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing. It'll be like our little game, lets see who can last longer.

so kobe wants to be traded. do it i say. think about the talent you can bring in for him? just keep him away from the raptors.

will garnett in LA be enough to get them the title??

Originally posted by leonidas
will garnett in LA be enough to get them the title??

Not even close. But it's a start.

kobe and KG would be an amazing tandem to watch.... no title though. they'll still need a decent center though

Kool runingz, I just want you to know that no you are not crazy. Yes Evolution has a reading comprehension problem, and seems to be trying to twist what you say to be what he wants to hear. Yes he is completely just skipping logic and jumping straight to insults. Yes I see your point about JO.

After all if he couldn't win the EAST with Reggie Miller, Stephen Jackson and Brad Miller, not even Kobe Could get him a ring. Though shipping out Odum isn't much but maybe Bynum would be a waste.

So no your not alone. No evolution isn't making any sense, and no I don't care about the Lakers, but Kobe wants to talk trade and if he is going to the bulls yes that is the best trade Lakers could get for him. Also Chicago would have to be on drugs to make the trade I heard which is Gordon, Deng, Thomas. Gutting your whole roster for one guy no matter how good he is is pointless, after all he is just going to opt out at the end of the season.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Not even close. But it's a start.

It could be the start of something real good.