Originally posted by DanZeke25
I mean that every game is close and we steal 1-2.
And by stealing 1-2 I meant 1-2 at Detriot. w00t Too bad I couldn't see the end of this game as I was at the Phillies game(crazy BTW a lot of fights between Phillies/Mets fans) but they showed the score on the big screen. Very nice.
Man the Lakers offense was beautiful to behold at times, the ball movement was exactly what it will take to carve up Denver's suspect defense.
I wasnt thrilled with the way Kobe played, he seemed to kill the momentum that we had built in the 3rd when he came out firing to start the 4th. Gasol was getting what ever he wanted and when he's got it going like that then the offense should go through him, he always makes the right play whether its getting his or setting others up. Lamar has been incredible this 2nd half of the season, it dawned on me the other day that this is the first playoff series that Lamar has been 100% healthy for us and that coupled with Gasol taking some pressure of him has transformed his game. This is the guy that i've always wanted to see in a Laker jersey, when he doesnt have the pressure to score like a 2nd option you can really appreciate the versatility he brings.
No doubt the Nuggets will come out and try to steal one at Staples but if we continue to get back on D and move the ball on offense then we should be alright.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
I thought the way Kobe played was fine. Which is exactly what Phil said after the game. It was within the offense, but his shots just weren't falling. If he's making them, no one is complaining.
I cant agree that the shots were within the offense, there was a patch to start the 4th where the ball just stopped moving when Kobe got it and he wasnt even looking to run the offense which had been working so well.
The sad part is that Kobe knows the offense better than any Laker and he could get much easier shots if he worked away from the ball and waited for the reversal, that would also make it harder for Denvers defense to key in on him.
Anyway im not gonna bring the mood down after a playoff win, the most important thing is that we are 1-0 up and looking good. Kobe very rarely has games like this but i just find it frustrating that he could make things easier for himself by working the offense.
Denver's defense was keying on him even though Pau had 36 points. Kobe's always going to be the center of attention on offense. Pau was getting most of his points just because of that. Notice most of his points were from other guys getting him open looks right under the basket. Just like we use to do for Kwame, problem was that he couldn't finish. You have to look at how Denver was playing Kobe. Putting Kenyon on him to start the game basically opened up the paint for Odom and Gasol. And that is how it was throughout the game. But like I said before, those are the shots he's been taking all season, yet people only want to find time to complain when they don't go in. Kobe's not a spot up shooter, he creates for himself and others, that is how he has always been. Can't expect him to change in the offense, and it's anything but sad. It has put us in prime position to win the West. The first half he shot poorly, second half he came out and got it done. Notice how he had 18 points in the 4th, shooting over 50% from the field. That is getting it done. No complaints from me. Especially since we won. Everyone on our team had a smile on their face after the game and was actually happy, I guess it's a perfect time for the critics to come out and find something wrong.
Bah! Forget Kobe. Denver could barely hold on to a rebound. ITs like they greased their fingers before the game.
I had a felling that Philly might steal a win. I thought it would be like game 4 or 3 not game 1. Thats Detroit for you they slack off an instead of goign for the jugular they lose to teams they should beat with their eyes closed.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
You can't look at it that way. Duncan had a field day with Amare and Diaw guarding him, and it's going to happen again if Shaq isn't in there. If Shaq is actually in the game when the Suns get their lead, Duncan doesn't go off and it's most likely a 20+ lead because he was what kept them in the game in the first half.
Or you could look at it as Shaq and Amare are 2 of the 3 leaders in fouls and will consistently struggle to stay in the game against the Spurs. Or that the Suns didn't have it in them to finish off the Spurs. I think the whole series will be grinded out and will go back and forth. I don't see these Spurs suddenly dropping 4 straight. Even if the Suns win the series, its not going to be as easy as you seem to make it sound.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Denver's defense was keying on him even though Pau had 36 points. Kobe's always going to be the center of attention on offense. Pau was getting most of his points just because of that. Notice most of his points were from other guys getting him open looks right under the basket. Just like we use to do for Kwame, problem was that he couldn't finish. You have to look at how Denver was playing Kobe. Putting Kenyon on him to start the game basically opened up the paint for Odom and Gasol. And that is how it was throughout the game. But like I said before, those are the shots he's been taking all season, yet people only want to find time to complain when they don't go in. Kobe's not a spot up shooter, he creates for himself and others, that is how he has always been. Can't expect him to change in the offense, and it's anything but sad. It has put us in prime position to win the West. The first half he shot poorly, second half he came out and got it done. Notice how he had 18 points in the 4th, shooting over 50% from the field. That is getting it done. No complaints from me. Especially since we won. Everyone on our team had a smile on their face after the game and was actually happy, I guess it's a perfect time for the critics to come out and find something wrong.
We'd save ourselves alot of needless back and forth if you would read all my post and not just the bits you disagree with. Working away from the ball doesnt make Kobe a spot up shooter it makes him a catch a shooter which he is very good at, it also makes it impossible for Martin to stay with him because Kobe would be running through screens.
Im happy we won the game but its naive to think we couldnt do a few things better, i understand that Kobe was the decoy and he opened up the frontcourt by drawing Martin away but to start the 4th i thought Kobe settled for some tough shots and it fuelled Denvers transition game and cut our 19pt lead in half.
I had plenty of positives to say about the game but because i had a slight criticism of Kobe's game you choose to focus on that - sound familiar?
Look the Lakers have a great chance to win it all this season so i'd like to enjoy the playoffs with the Laker fans in here, but if you are gonna get so defensive if i have anything but hero worship for Kobe then just dont bother to respond and we can save ourselves alot of wasted time.
Jeez you act like im TJ Simmers or some other Kobe hater.
Peace.
Originally posted by koolruningz
We'd save ourselves alot of needless back and forth if you would read all my post and not just the bits you disagree with. Working away from the ball doesnt make Kobe a spot up shooter it makes him a catch a shooter which he is very good at, it also makes it impossible for Martin to stay with him because Kobe would be running through screens.
Im happy we won the game but its naive to think we couldnt do a few things better, i understand that Kobe was the decoy and he opened up the frontcourt by drawing Martin away but to start the 4th i thought Kobe settled for some tough shots and it fuelled Denvers transition game and cut our 19pt lead in half.
I had plenty of positives to say about the game but because i had a slight criticism of Kobe's game you choose to focus on that - sound familiar?
Look the Lakers have a great chance to win it all this season so i'd like to enjoy the playoffs with the Laker fans in here, but if you are gonna get so defensive if i have anything but hero worship for Kobe then just dont bother to respond and we can save ourselves alot of wasted time.
Jeez you act like im TJ Simmers or some other Kobe hater.Peace.
And it's dumb to criticize the way Kobe played in the 4th quarter since he's been playing like that his whole career. You are starting to act like a Kobe hater. Finding time to complain even after a playoff win. You didn't like the way he played? Funny he's always played like that, so I guess you have never liked the way he has played. I thought what he did was within the offense and so did Phil, and he shot over 50% and had 18 points in the 4th and we won, but everything he does is under a microscope even by the fans of his own team. I don't care if you worship Kobe or not, but I do not see you comin in here whining when his shots are falling. I find it funny you mention the start of the 4th quarter when he missed a few shots in a row and not the rest when it was like he couldn't miss. I wonder why? Are you actually saying it was Kobe's fault that Denver cut into the lead in the 4th? If so, then that is the tell all right there. If Pau or Odom had missed those shots, would it have been their fault too? Give me a break. They got back in the game because we have poor transition defense and it's been that way for years, and it has been magnified this season because we have made great strides in other areas, now the few weaknesses we do have are more apparent than ever.
Add that to the fact that Denver scores in bunches, they make runs, it was inevitably going to happen. As a matter of fact it was expected. I mean New Orleans came back from 30 down and Dallas came back from 25 down against us. It's our weak mentality to relax oin all areas of defense when we get a big lead that allows teams to get back in games. It had nothing to do with Kobe. But go ahead and keep complaining.
Mr. Bayless
I've been here from the very first page defending Kobe against all comers man so for you to say that im acting like a Kobe hater just shows that you are way too sensitive about any type of criticism for him. All i said was that he settled for some bad shots, i've given Kobe far more praise than criticism but i dont think he is perfect and above criticism - no player is.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution You didn't like the way he played? Funny he's always played like that, so I guess you have never liked the way he has played.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
I find it funny you mention the start of the 4th quarter when he missed a few shots in a row and not the rest when it was like he couldn't miss. I wonder why?
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
It's our weak mentality to relax oin all areas of defense when we get a big lead that allows teams to get back in games.
Seriously dude there is no need to get so sensitive if i criticise Kobe, he's my favorite player and has been for 10yrs. But he should not be above criticism from anyone (even KMC "NBA experts" like us) at least mine is thought out and comes from a place of wanting our team to succeed, which makes the Skip Bayless comment even more pathetic.
I'm not sensitive I'm just calling it like I see it. And what do you mean how did I make that leap? You stated the you didn't like the way he played at the start of the 4th, when that is how he's played his whole career, don't see how it is a leap to imply based on your statement, that you don't like the way he has played his whole career. What's funny is that he played the same way throughout the entire 4th quarter. Don't try to tell me those shots he were hitting late in the game were any different from the ones he took and missed early in the 4th. See that is exactly what I'm talking about, you only notice when he misses. And it's like Phil said, his shots just weren't falling. If they were, we're not having this conversation and it's funny that we do only when they don't.
I hope your not one of those people who believe Kobe gave up on the team in game 7 in the 2006 playoffs.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Guess that is going to stick with Kobe forever.
The leap i was talking about was you saying Kobe has played this way his whole career when you know thats not true. Are you saying that he played the same game during the 3-peat years as he did during the 81 season? No, so how can you make that statement? Kobe has changed his game every year gradually becoming more perimeter based, go look at some of his early years with the Lakers - he attacked the rack like Wade does. So to sum up: for you to say that if i didnt like the way he played last night then i mustn't have liked the way he played his whole career is completely stupid and false.
Lets look at some of those 4th quarter makes and i'll try and illustrate what im talking about. Now off the top of my head i remember him making a three after the ball was reversed and he came off a down screen, making a driving layup after coming from the baseline to the elbow and getting a pass from Gasol and catching a lob from Gasol from the high post after sealing Carter who was fronting. All of those plays were created with ball movement and within the offense, he also started the quarter with 3 or 4 misses off iso's which is the point i was trying to make earlier about using the offense to get easy shots.
Whether he makes or misses the forced shots is really not the heart of the issue though (although obviously it gets noticed more if he misses as we are trying to win a game), the problem as i see it is that it kills the ball movement and lets Denvers defense off the hook. You saw yesterday that Denvers defense was helpless when the ball movement pulled players out of position, against a better defensive team like the Spurs Kobe may have to take the game over and create his own shot more. But the point is now he has better teammates he doesnt have to go solo against a team like Denver, there is a reason they extended the lead with Kobe on the bench to round out the 3rd (and no im not saying we are better with him on the bench just in case you were getting ready to jump all over that one).
The only reason we have any conversations these days is if i have any criticism of Kobe at all. If i was saying the same thing about Lamar you would just move on, but because its Kobe you cant let it go until you have changed my mind (not going to happen by the way).
What i said about Kobe wasnt even that bad so just save your rants for the real Kobe haters, because there are plenty of them out there and no doubt you'll be hearing from them in this thread when Kobe wins the MVP. Oh and if you go back and check i picked Kobe for MVP this year, not bad for a "Kobe hater" huh?
Originally posted by koolruningz
The leap i was talking about was you saying Kobe has played this way his whole career when you know thats not true. Are you saying that he played the same game during the 3-peat years as he did during the 81 season? No, so how can you make that statement? Kobe has changed his game every year gradually becoming more perimeter based, go look at some of his early years with the Lakers - he attacked the rack like Wade does. So to sum up: for you to say that if i didnt like the way he played last night then i mustn't have liked the way he played his whole career is completely stupid and false.
Lets look at some of those 4th quarter makes and i'll try and illustrate what im talking about. Now off the top of my head i remember him making a three after the ball was reversed and he came off a down screen, making a driving layup after coming from the baseline to the elbow and getting a pass from Gasol and catching a lob from Gasol from the high post after sealing Carter who was fronting. All of those plays were created with ball movement and within the offense, he also started the quarter with 3 or 4 misses off iso's which is the point i was trying to make earlier about using the offense to get easy shots.
Whether he makes or misses the forced shots is really not the heart of the issue though (although obviously it gets noticed more if he misses as we are trying to win a game), the problem as i see it is that it kills the ball movement and lets Denvers defense off the hook. You saw yesterday that Denvers defense was helpless when the ball movement pulled players out of position, against a better defensive team like the Spurs Kobe may have to take the game over and create his own shot more. But the point is now he has better teammates he doesnt have to go solo against a team like Denver, there is a reason they extended the lead with Kobe on the bench to round out the 3rd (and no im not saying we are better with him on the bench just in case you were getting ready to jump all over that one).
The only reason we have any conversations these days is if i have any criticism of Kobe at all. If i was saying the same thing about Lamar you would just move on, but because its Kobe you cant let it go until you have changed my mind (not going to happen by the way).
What i said about Kobe wasnt even that bad so just save your rants for the real Kobe haters, because there are plenty of them out there and no doubt you'll be hearing from them in this thread when Kobe wins the MVP. Oh and if you go back and check i picked Kobe for MVP this year, not bad for a "Kobe hater" huh?
You weren't watching close enough buddy because all the shots he took in the 4th were the same. And it is what he's been doing the whole season. And I recall one play that was an iso, and that is when he took his man to the basket and missed the layup. And you totally missed the point. Going back to Kobe's first seasons? Come on now. He's been perimeter based since 2002. So is it safe to say that you don't like the way he's played since then? Only the people who don't like Kobe are going to ***** about his play in a game that we won. Just because Denver made you piss your pants when they cut the lead to 9 doesn't mean you have to break down one of our players because you don't like the way they played. Like I said before, I never see you complaining when the shots are falling. I didn't see you on here after the 81 point game complaining that his shots were not within the offense and that he's a ball hog. I didn't see you here when he scored 50+ against the Grizzlies on over 50% shooting when no one else on the team could hit a shot to save their lives. I didn't see you complaining when scored 52 against the Mavs to will us to a win, even though every possession late in the 4th and OT were iso's where everyone else got the hell out of his way. There are dozens of more like this. Where the hell was Kool at? Oh that is right, waiting in his cave to come out and bash Kobe when he actually has a bad game. What else am I supposed to think when all you do is talk negatively about him? How about instead of trashing his play in one quarter and apparently only a few minutes of play, you give our team their due for pulling this one out. It's amazing that in a win, in a game where Gasol scored 36 and Kobe scored 32 that you find space to criticize the best player in the game because he didn't do what you wanted him to do for a few minutes. Phil thought his play was fine, everyone else on the team I'm sure had no complaints, everyone was great, but your on here complaining, breaking down Kobe possession by possession and it has become tiresome. You don't do it for any other player but him and it has become pretty obvious why.