Originally posted by Juntai
And what? He wasn't leading the team in these situations?
Did i say otherwise. But you seem to attribute it all to his leadership skills while reading TT(most story arcs that involved going against those odds) indicates the case having more to do with special circumstances to be exploited.
Originally posted by Juntai
What do you mean 'again'? As if you're repeating the same question, when it's a completely different one, with a different context altogether.
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Sides, whats nightwings major accomplishments anyway?
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Again what has he accomplished that can be attributed to tactical thinking for his team and winning for it?
Different context? Would you mind to explain how? Because i've quoted you, and the statements i've quoted pertains to their leadership comparison. It doesn't take another einstein to tell i'm asking for his leadership accomplishments.
Originally posted by Juntai
Most wins any of his teams have pulled off were due to his strategic thinking. The very idea that Batman and Deathstroke both consider him the best tactician speaks volumes.
Feats speaks for themselves. Batman not thinking of him that way would be hardly believable for a former protege'. You have to factor in his bias or the fact he hardly has anyone to compare him with in DCU cept for himself and a select few. I dunno where Deathstroke cited him to be the best tactician, at least not that i can recall off.
Originally posted by Sixth_WingedFirst off the "sides what has nightwing accomplished anyways" is a generic question in itself. It's far too broad, especially when you were giving battle scenarios AND the broad "plus he led the x men" reply before asking it. Without context, its too open of a question, meaning your later question a completely new one by comparison.
Did i say otherwise. But you seem to attribute it all to his leadership skills while reading TT(specifically that issue) indicates the case having more to do with special circumstances to be exploited.Different context? Would you mind to explain how? Because i've quoted you, and the statements i've quoted pertains to their leadership comparison. It doesn't take another einstein to tell i'm asking for his leadership accomplishments.
Feats speaks for themselves. Batman not think of him that way would be hardly believable for a former protege'. I dunno where Deathstroke cited him to be the best tactician, at least not that i can recall off.
Deathstroke has and many times, why do you think he wanted his daughter Rose to learn from him, and specifically about his ability to produce contingency plans on the fly?
Originally posted by Juntai
Nightwing is easily as good of a leader as Scott, and has also tested his mettle against all odds since he was a young boy, leading the various teams mentioned earlier.And in a hand to hand fight, it's barely comparable.
Scott still gets the nod due to the idea that he shoot lazers.
Originally posted by Juntai
First off the "sides what has nightwing accomplished anyways" is a generic question in itself. It's far too broad, especially when you were giving battle scenarios AND the broad "plus he led the x men" reply before asking it. Without context, its too open of a question, meaning your later question a completely new one by comparison.
When i asked the first questions, did i not try to attempt to state what Cyclops accomplishment was for tactical feats. Did i not quote your question on how is he a better tactician. I cannot find a reason why do would you think the question was far too broad, specially when further enforced by a question still revolving around their strategical comparison later on.
Originally posted by Juntai
Deathstroke has and many times, why do you think he wanted his daughter Rose to learn from him, and specifically about his ability to produce contingency plans on the fly?
When has this been many times specifically? I have to re-read those again so what issue(s)?
Originally posted by Juntai
How is Cyke a better tactician?
What gives you the idea that he's close to Nightwing in hand to hand?
the fact that he's let the X-Men outa many situations that woulda killed the team if it wasn't for him (for example when he lead the raid on Magneto on Genosha to rescue some fellow X-Men, P.S. there were only 4 of them against hundreds)
Cyclops also has extensive training in martial arts and unarmed combat, holding black belts in judo and aikido. His level of skill is sufficient to defeat six dangerous men with his eyes closed and he has in the past held his own against such dangerous enemies as Wolverine and Ghost Rider.
Impressive Feats
While rarely displayed, Cyclops' versatility in the use of his abilities is quite astounding. Below is a list of impressive feats accomplished by Cyclops (with issue numbers for verification).
Uncanny X-Men #93: Cyclops battles Quicksilver, and Quicksilver himself remarks that only his speed saved him from being hit by Cyclops. This alone demonstrates an impressive combination of quick reflexes and incredible accuracy.
Uncanny X-Men #124: While trapped in Murderworld (controlled by the villain Arcade), Cyclops saves Nightcrawler by clearing out a room of attacking robots with just one blast that reflects from enemy to enemy, eventually destroying a total of eight attackers.
Uncanny X-Men #144: While playing pool, he uses one pinpoint optic blast to strike the cue ball, sinking every ball on the table.
Uncanny X-Men #152: He deflects his blast off three surfaces to hit Sebastian Shaw, and pushes him towards the waiting Colossus. This shows an impressive level of intelligence (given Shaw's power to absorb kinetic energy), to adapt his strategy accordingly.
Uncanny X-Men #170: While trying to explain his mutancy to Madelyne Pryor, he flips a coin, and blasts the center out of it, leaving the outer edge intact.
Uncanny X-Men #175: When the X-Men are hypnotized into thinking Cyclops is the Dark Phoenix, they try to hunt him down. After defeating Colossus, Nightcrawler and Storm in quick succession, he flees to the Danger Room. Inside, he creates a jungle environment in which to hide from his fellow X-Men. They attempt to hunt him down, but he outwits them, defeating Wolverine, Colossus, Storm and Rogue, all the while suffering from broken ribs.
X-Men (vol. 2) #112: While infiltrating Genosha with Wolverine, he fires a blast, deflecting it around two corners to take out two waiting enemies. Wolverine later remarked that it was the first time he'd ever seen Cyclops 'showing off'. In the same comic, while battling Magneto, he fires past Magneto (who he had just blasted through a wall), hitting Magneto's fallen helmet, which rebounds and strikes Magneto in the head. In the same comic yet again, he and Wolverine come up against a force of armed guards. Cyclops uses several small blasts to disable the weapon of each one of his enemies before they even fire a shot. Lastly, although it isn't shown on panel, Wolverine recounts a memory in which Cyclops opened a car door-lock using only his blasts.
New X-Men #137: During the 'Riot at Xavier's' storyline, he is one of the X-Men who faces off against Quentin Quire's Omega Gang. When Redneck challenges him, he fires one blast accurate enough to break Redneck's nose without causing any other damage. During the ensuing fight, he fires (while doing a cartwheel) a second blast that breaks Radian's leg.
Two examples of the extent of his power were displayed in issues of Uncanny X-Men and Astonishing X-Men. In Uncanny X-Men #336, while battling the evil being known as Onslaught, Cyclops took off his visor, releasing a huge blast that blew a hole in Onslaught's armor. Then, in Astonishing X-Men #8, while the Xavier Institute was being attacked by a damaged Sentinel, Cyclops again removed his visor, unleashing a blast that pushed the Sentinel back many feet and completely leveled a large part of the forest in front of him. Given his reluctance to use his powers to their fullest (in case he hurts someone he cares about), it may be a while before another example graces the pages of the comics he is featured in.
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged When i asked the first questions, did i not try to attempt to state what Cyclops accomplishment was for tactical feats. Did i not quote your question on how is he a better tactician. I cannot find a reason why do would you think the question was far too broad, specially when further enforced by a question still revolving around their strategical comparison later on.Everything I needed to say was already said on that matter. But I'll point it out for you one last time. Your post had a couple mentions of battles and the fact that he's led the team, then asked what Nightwing has accomplished. It's a clear general question given the context. Your later one was far more specific. Two different questions. You won't get me repeat this again, so don't bother.
When has this been many times specifically? I have to re-read those again so what issue(s)?What I'm supposed to remember when random sentences specificially come out of people's mouths over several series' and a couple decades? I named off a specific instance of clear indication of Deathstroke's regard for Nightwing's ability right off the top though. Deathstroke coming to Nightwing to have him teach Rose strategy and battle tactics.
And I've said my piece, made my points, and even got a co-sign. Everything else here is irrelivent and just nitpicking. Nightwing is clearly up with Cyke in terms of tactical strategy to more than one member here. And Cyclops wins because he shoots lazers.
See you on the flipside.
I dont think you truly understand, nethier Nightwing nor anyone whith similar training would just openly walk up and fight. He was trained by the best, he knows to find out all he can about his enemy and go in undetected and take him out quickly and quietly.
IF you remove a key component like that then its NOT Nightwing hes fighting. For characters like this allot of their power is in how they fight.
Its been admitted that this was a bad match up to begin with. Because theres no way to do a fair fight that doesnt give one of them an advantage. You guys just want the advantage to go to Cyclops cause you like him and hate NW.
Originally posted by Juntai
Everything I needed to say was already said on that matter. But I'll point it out for you one last time. Your post had a couple mentions of battles and the fact that he's led the team, then asked what Nightwing has accomplished. It's a clear general question given the context. Your later one was far more specific. Two different questions. You won't get me repeat this again, so don't bother.
I don't intend to ask you again since no matter how you explain it, it doesn't make that much sense(no offense, at least i'm not understanding it myself). I wouldn't be quoting you on a specific question regarding the matter, try to answer you in a way that i can and ask a question that's not even relevant to what i've just discussed.
Originally posted by Juntai
What I'm supposed to remember when random sentences specificially come out of people's mouths over several series' and a couple decades? I named off a specific instance of clear indication of Deathstroke's regard for Nightwing's ability right off the top though. Deathstroke coming to Nightwing to have him teach Rose strategy and battle tactics.
Oh, come on. Those issues were just a few months ago. Is it really all that trouble to cite where you got it specially when you stated "several times". Sides, doesn't make sense if her dad is easily proven to be better than him in that dept based on actual feats.
Originally posted by David_Richards
I dont think you truly understand, nethier Nightwing nor anyone whith similar training would just openly walk up and fight. He was trained by the best, he knows to find out all he can about his enemy and go in undetected and take him out quickly and quietly.IF you remove a key component like that then its NOT Nightwing hes fighting. For characters like this allot of their power is in how they fight.
Its been admitted that this was a bad match up to begin with. Because theres no way to do a fair fight that doesnt give one of them an advantage. You guys just want the advantage to go to Cyclops cause you like him and hate NW.
...😂 😆
No, we DON'T want the advantage to go to Cyclops. We go by the THREAD RULES, which specifically say that unless otherwise stated, NEITHER SIDE gets prep time. They just face each other in face-to-face battle. No sneaking around. That is a fair fight.
The other opponent in a boxing match can't punch his opponent in the head while he is sleeping, can he? Or plant bombs in the boxing arena prior to match?
They WILL walk up and fight, because the thread maker did not state anything else. This is a forum fight, not a comic one. Use your brains and try to comprehend what I am trying to say here. Unless otherwise stated, the match will go like we have said it to go all the time.
Originally posted by Silent Master
So you want to ignore how Cyclops normally fights so that you can give Nightwing one-sided prep and then further you want him to attack Cyclops before Scott even knows he's in a fight?And you called me a fanboy.
You are using the thread rules to give Cyclops an advantage. It's been admitted that this is a bad match up.
You just hate NW and want all the advantage to go to Cyclops.
So you should rename the Thread Cyclops VS an UN-trained Nightwing.
back to topic.
On being Sneaky: It was a forgotten tribe in the Amazon who tutored Nightwing. [They had perfected the art of invisibility over Centuries.]
Please, Cyclops wishes he had Nightwing's fighting technique.
Never mind what Cyke did in Genosha with Wolverine tagging along or, at the Mansion, blasting a static Sentinel, I've seen better, Much better from Cyclops.
It was in X-Force 55 [vs Shield]
in the heart of the Shield hellicarrier Surrounded by every armed Shield agent alive, GWBridge reading the riot act. Cable brainsides Cyke and
wow!
Cykes optic blasts guided by Cables innate marksmanship skills, it has got to be seen.
Cyke sadly does not have Cables marksmanship skills, punking STATIC! Genoshan troops is pretty good. Not good enough.
Nightwing doesn't have a gun , he has no reason to be static and
provide a target
Clear as day NIGHTWING will vanish before Cke .WTR? Nightwing will descend without sound from an aerial leap behind Cyke
"Looking for me?"
Cyke head whips round, too fast, snaps his neck.
Originally posted by David_Richards
You are using the thread rules to give Cyclops an advantage. It's been admitted that this is a bad match up.You just hate NW and want all the advantage to go to Cyclops.
So you should rename the Thread Cyclops VS an UN-trained Nightwing.
Guys its just a bad match up.
Here's an example:
Nightwing vs Wolverine,
They can both fight how they were trained, Nightwing does the same thing, but its a level playing ground cause of Wolvies super-sensitive nose.
There you go we are both happy, its a fair fight and NW still gets turned into a human shishkabob.
Just try to do better match ups.