Originally posted by Regret
I understand this, but, it is seen as liberal. It is the attitude that people in general see, regardless of accuracy. I abhor the term conservative on the same level, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, others, they all cast a horrible shadow on the conservative side that is not better than the examples of liberal I presented.
However Bush and co. are actually operating with conservative values - or at least perceived ones. They are seen as defining policy and political progress for them. It is simply unfortunate for more intellectual conservatives that the conservative ideals are being put in practice so ineptly.
The difference there is that Bill Clinton and his affair was not a matter of liberal ideals. George Bush using a veto on stem cell research however is a matter of conservative ideals.
Originally posted by Regret
The facts mean nothing as far as my aversion to the term. My aversion comes directly from the perception of the term, which is as I stated. Liberal is viewed as being morally grey. Conservative is often viewed as religious fanaticism, or a similar stance. Whether liberals and conservatives really are or are not this way is irrelevant, I do not like the connotation.
I dislike the connotation that comes with Christianity. The popular view of Christians is that they are hypocritical, unrealistic, prejudice, and overtly judgemental.
Does that mean I should be offended if someone were to call me Christian? Does that mean I should beleive that All Christians are that way ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I dislike the connotation that comes with Christianity. The popular view of Christians is that they are hypocritical, unrealistic, prejudice, and overtly judgemental.Does that mean I should be offended if someone were to call me Christian? Does that mean I should beleive that All Christians are that way ?
I wasn't offended. That is an oversimplification of what I have been saying. I never stated that, I only stated that I disliked the inference that the average person has associated with the term. I dislike it when you, and others here, refer to myself and some of the mainstream "Christians" here using the same term. I would be separate from them as their views are illogical, and imo, unsound biblically or otherwise. I am Christian, but I'd prefer not to be lumped with some "Christians." My aversion is the same in the two instances. I am liberal, but I don't want to be lumped in with the many "liberals" that I disagree with.
Originally posted by Alliance
Rationality can be in the eye of the beholder...I try to think beyond that.
Re: Biblical discussion on judging others
Originally posted by RegretJust thought I'd bump this.
I do not believe that the New Testament provides support for the act of judging another or condemning another. As my support for this view are the following scripture:If you agree and have more support present it, if you disagree, provide support for the opposing stance.
I believe that all men are brothers, and thus all men are held inclusive when the term "brother" is used. If you disagree with this assumption provide reference that states that all men are not brothers.
I think many Christians - as well as many non-Christians, mistake correction with *judgement*(often times, purposely so - so they can continue to engage in sinful behaviour). The apostle Paul corrected Peter - when Peter sat at the table with the Pharisees, to avoid sitting with those considered undesireable(at least by man's standards). Peter received correction(from Paul) with humility - and repented of his sins.
So to make things simple - *judgement* , is not synonomous with correction. In the end - God makes all final judgements on his children's positive/negative behaviour - however, it is our responsability - as brothers and sisters of Christ, to correct and/or inform our bretheren of any sinful behaviour they have unwillingly(or willingly) engaged in.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimboThe Apostles are not on the same level of understanding as the lay individuals. There is no Biblical example of a lay individual correcting another without being reprimanded. Correction as shown in the Bible is reserved for those in a position of authority.
I think many Christians - as well as many non-Christians, mistake correction with *judgement*(often times, purposely so - so they can continue to engage in sinful behaviour). The apostle Paul corrected Peter - when Peter sat at the table with the Pharisees, to avoid sitting with those considered undesireable(at least by man's standards). Peter received correction(from Paul) with humility - and repented of his sins.So to make things simple - *judgement* , is not synonomous with correction. In the end - God makes all final judgements on his children's positive/negative behaviour - however, it is our responsability - as brothers and sisters of Christ, to correct and/or inform our bretheren of any sinful behaviour they have unwillingly(or willingly) engaged in.
Originally posted by Regret
The Apostles are not on the same level of understanding as the lay individuals. There is no Biblical example of a lay individual correcting another without being reprimanded. Correction as shown in the Bible is reserved for those in a position of authority.
A very prideful, egotistical, and incorrect statement above.
This is the same rationale - used against Jesus when he preached to the masses. The Pharisees did not want to acknowledge Jesus as the son of God - due to the fact that they considered him a *lay* person(for he was only a carpenter's son) - to them - he was not as educated/versed/or did not carry as much earthly authourity regarding the scriptures as themselves. Jesus would also consistently correct them regarding their misrepresentations of the scriptures(often times - willingly misinterpreted, in order to boost their egos - as well as power base).
Correction is something that can be received from anyone - for we are all sinners. As a Christian, If I have commited any sin, then I do not care who corrects me regarding my sinful behaviour, just so long as I have been informed by someone that I have sinned - so I can repent of it. I'll admit, it initially doesn't feel good when corrected - by anyone, but as one grows in their faith - they learn to appreciate all forms of correction. Remember as it is written in the bible -
"My child, don't turn away or become bitter when the LORD corrects you. The Lord corrects everyone he loves, just as parents correct their favorite child--"
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
A very prideful, egotistical, and incorrect statement above.
This is the same rationale - used against Jesus when he preached to the masses. The Pharisees did not want to acknowledge Jesus as the son of God - due to the fact that they considered him a *lay* person(for he was only a carpenter's son) - to them - he was not as educated/versed/or did not carry as much earthly authourity regarding the scriptures as themselves. Jesus would also consistently correct them regarding their misrepresentations of the scriptures(often times - willingly misinterpreted, in order to boost their egos - as well as power base).Correction is something that can be received from anyone - for we are all sinners. As a Christian, If I have commited any sin, then I do not care who corrects me regarding my sinful behaviour, just so long as I have been informed by someone that I have sinned - so I can repent of it. I'll admit, it initially doesn't feel good when corrected - by anyone, but as one grows in their faith - they learn to appreciate all forms of correction. Remember as it is written in the bible -
"My child, don't turn away or become bitter when the LORD corrects you. The Lord corrects everyone he loves, just as parents correct their favorite child--"
How could someone like you give me correction? Your beliefs are ignorant and egotistical. If I listened to you, I would live a miserable life filled with hate and delusion.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How could someone like you give me correction?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your beliefs are ignorant and egotistical. If I listened to you, I would live a miserable life filled with hate and delusion.
When one produces irony - it is often followed by hypocrisy..which is then followed by laughter..He..He..He..
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
When one produces irony - it is often followed by hypocrisy..which is then followed by laughter..He..He..He..
Your response is strange.
You are not a person who can give me correction, so to try and do so is silly. I do not mean this as an insult, but because I realize you know nothing of my life, my beliefs or my faith, any correction would be ill advised to follow. Sense you know only what is written here, you are not equipped to do anyone any correction.