Chick Tracts and the Bible why the discrimination?

Originally posted by Marchello
***Will:

You are correct...in God's eyes a sin is a sin...in His eyes there is no gradation of sin for the "wages of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23]. God is so holy He will not tolerate sin or have it before Him...ALL sin is deadly.

Marchello

So holy, that God will allow a raping, murdering child-molester into heaven, if that p.o.s. says "I accept" Jesus, but won't allow a Buddhist, Jew or Atheist who's never wronged a person in their life. Damn, that is "holy".

Don't tell me that crap came from Paul also

Originally posted by Storm
Many Christians, including many mainstream Protestants and evangelicals find a lot of Chick' s publications offensive and embarrassing.

***"For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness; but unto us which are SAVED it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them THAT BELIEVE" [1 Corinthians 1:18-21].

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***"For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness; but unto us which are SAVED it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them THAT BELIEVE" [1 Corinthians 1:18-21].

Marchello

So, you can come up with any crazy idea based on the bible and as long as someone disagrees with you, you are correct. Have you ever considered the possibility that you maybe wrong, or would your ego not allow that?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you can come up with any crazy idea based on the bible and as long as someone disagrees with you, you are correct. Have you ever considered the possibility that you maybe wrong, or would your ego not allow that?

***Yes, I have thought of that...that's why I quote the Bible. It's never wrong because it's God's Word. Men are SINNER'S and, as such, are EVIL continually. Only God is RIGHTEOUS and His Word is SURE. ALL men are LIARS.

Marchello

Originally posted by Robtard
So holy, that God will allow a raping, murdering child-molester into heaven, if that p.o.s. says "I accept" Jesus, but won't allow a Buddhist, Jew or Atheist who's never wronged a person in their life. Damn, that is "holy".

Originally posted by Robtard
So holy, that God will allow a raping, murdering child-molester into heaven, if that p.o.s. says "I accept" Jesus, but won't allow a Buddhist, Jew or Atheist who's never wronged a person in their life. Damn, that is "holy".

If the "raping, murdering child molester" is truly sorry for what they have done and chooses to accept Jesus as their personal Lord and saviour then, yes, I believe that they one day will go to be with Jesus.

However a Jew, Atheist or a Buddhist may not have wronged God by your "raping, murdering, child molesting" standard but I believe that everyone sins and so everyone is guilty of going against God's plans for us to be with him.

I don't think most people have an issue with someone who has committed horrific acts being forgiven, so much as the fact that simply for sinning, in God's eyes, they are put on par with others who by their own standards have committed far worse atrocities. Which is understandable why people may not like this, however they tend to forget that when they do lie or do "minor" things that still constitutes as a sin ✅

Originally posted by Marchello
***Yes, I have thought of that...that's why I quote the Bible. It's never wrong because it's God's Word. Men are SINNER'S and, as such, are EVIL continually. Only God is RIGHTEOUS and His Word is SURE. ALL men are LIARS.

Marchello

But there are so many interpretations of the bible, how do you know yours is correct?

Do not tell me there is only one interpretation of the bible because that is an overly convenient lie. Here is my proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

If there was only one interpretation of the bible then there would not be so many different denominations of Christianity in the world.

Originally posted by Nellinator
To accept Jesus they must first truly repent and confess their sins to God. An extremely important part of repentance is that you will not go back to a life of sin. If a rapist, truly repents he would turn himself in, sit in prison for his entire sentence, be on good behaviour and become a good citizen upon release and make his best attempt to make amends for the sins he committed against his fellow man. If they do that, then it is obvious to us that they have truly repented and God having forgiven the sins will find him blameless. That is the core of the faith. You can't just say, you have to live it.

And if they do all that but with another religion instead? Or if they do it with no religion?

It would appear that being aware you have done wrong and being truly sorry for it isn't as important as simply throwing your lot in with the right name.

***Yes, I have thought of that...that's why I quote the Bible. It's never wrong because it's God's Word. Men are SINNER'S and, as such, are EVIL continually. Only God is RIGHTEOUS and His Word is SURE. ALL men are LIARS.

Marchello

Care to list the evils every man and women engage in continually? I'm not sure lying really cuts it.

I believe that in God's eye, a sin is a sin. I may be wrong but (off the top of my head) I can't think of any Biblical passages that would have to outright claim, without interpretation, that God tells us how to punish different sins by different degrees. God says people will be judged for their sins, we are told in the Bible that God sees all sin as horrific acts against his name regardless of how we might consider to order and punish people for their degrees of severity or atrocity. That's what our government does, right or wrong, this is another matter

Personally I think that the all powerful, all loving God, all knowing God I believe in would have much more authority to judge someone for their sins than we do. The point is that he doesn't want to have to judge us, we have been given the amazing opportunity of repentance through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as our personal lord and saviour

So it makes sense that all sin is the same? It seems somewhat tyranical to me. Like those nations in history that try to establish theological law based upon their holy texts.

If certain sins (like lack of belief, belief in the wrong faith - which is really the only sin a person can be judged on) should never be punished on earth... I mean if a government started throwing people into jail because they didn't follow the right religion, or took away their rights for being an Atheist or Agnostic it would be wrong in our eyes. So how is it then seen as acceptable for God to do just that, especially when so much is at stake and God apparently really, really, really doesn't want anyone to go to hell?

I think that the general answer is that because throwing people in jail doesn't really give anyone a chance to learn and grow from their sins. While some people need to be removed from society to protect honest people that are trying and/or succeeding everyone needs to be given a chance for repentance. That is why I believe the most heinous criminals can truly be saved (though it is a very rare occurrence I am sure) is they are truly repentant.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But there are so many interpretations of the bible, how do you know yours is correct?

Do not tell me there is only one interpretation of the bible because that is an overly convenient lie. Here is my proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

If there was only one interpretation of the bible then there would not be so many different denominations of Christianity in the world.

***The Bible is God's Word. But some of the interpretations derived from it are not. There are many cults and "christian" groups that use the Bible claiming their interpretations are correct. Too often, however, the interpretations not only differ dramatically but are clearly contradictory. This does not mean that the Bible is a confusing document. Rather, the problem lies in those who interpret and their spiritual condition.

Siiners are spiritually DEAD and, as such, are INCAPABLE of interpreting God's Word. The body, mind, will, and emotions are effected by sin and make interpretive accuracy IMPOSSIBLE.

When a sinner is REDEEMED by Jesus Christ [i.e., born again...John 3], the Holy Ghost comes and resides IN him and he passes from DEATH to LIFE IN Christ. Then ONLY can he interpret the Bible because he is BORN a SECOND time and becomes a "new creation" in Christ. Jesus said that the Father would send the Comforter [John 14:26] in His place and the Comforter [i.e., Holy Ghost] would TEACH the Christian ALL things and bring to REMEMBRANCE whatsoever Christ has said to us.

BOTTOM-LINE: The unredeemed CANNOT interpret the scriptures because they are spiritually DEAD and have NOT the Spirit of God IN them. Without the Spirit of God they CANNOT know the things of God and, as such, are DEAD in sin and on their way to PERDITION.

And, yes, there is ONLY ONE interpretation of the Bible...for there is ONLY ONE way to God and that is THROUGH Jesus Christ the Lord: "For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" [1 Timothy 2:5].

Marchello

Originally posted by Nellinator
I think that the general answer is that because throwing people in jail doesn't really give anyone a chance to learn and grow from their sins. While some people need to be removed from society to protect honest people that are trying and/or succeeding everyone needs to be given a chance for repentance. That is why I believe the most heinous criminals can truly be saved (though it is a very rare occurrence I am sure) is they are truly repentant.

So if a person is sent to Hell for not believing/believing in the wrong religion... how does that give a person a chance to grow/learn from their sins? And really in the end that is the only reason a person can end up in hell, because Christian repentance saves you no matter what you have done, so the people in Hell are all going to be nonbelievers or believers of the wrong thing. Some of whom may have done bad things by human standards, but plenty who have done nothing by human standards.

And it doesn't really change my question - God's law on Earth would, by human standards, be the worst of theocratic tyranny (like most examples of theological law applied), God's law in the afterlife, a fair and just system for all - How is that reconcilable?

[/b]***The Bible is God's Word. But some of the interpretations derived from it are not. There are many cults and "christian" groups that use the Bible claiming their interpretations are correct. Too often, however, the interpretations not only differ dramatically but are clearly contradictory. This does not mean that the Bible is a confusing document. Rather, the problem lies in those who interpret and their spiritual condition.

Siiners are spiritually DEAD and, as such, are INCAPABLE of interpreting God's Word. The body, mind, will, and emotions are effected by sin and make interpretive accuracy IMPOSSIBLE.

When a sinner is REDEEMED by Jesus Christ [i.e., born again...John 3], the Holy Ghost comes and resides IN him and he passes from DEATH to LIFE IN Christ. Then ONLY can he interpret the Bible because he is BORN a SECOND time and becomes a "new creation" in Christ. Jesus said that the Father would send the Comforter [John 14:26] in His place and the Comforter [i.e., Holy Ghost] would TEACH the Christian ALL things and bring to REMEMBRANCE whatsoever Christ has said to us.

BOTTOM-LINE: The unredeemed CANNOT interpret the scriptures because they are spiritually DEAD and have NOT the Spirit of God IN them. Without the Spirit of God they CANNOT know the things of God and, as such, are DEAD in sin and on their way to PERDITION.

And, yes, there is ONLY ONE interpretation of the Bible...for there is ONLY ONE way to God and that is THROUGH Jesus Christ the Lord: "For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" [1 Timothy 2:5].

Marchello[/b]

Oooo, The Marchello clause - I love it.

"I know I have God and if I have God I must be right and my reading of the Bible must be right, ergo anyone who disagrees can't have God because if they did he would agree with me and his reading of the Bible would be the same as mine."

In the Simplest Terms: I'm right which means you can't be, so you're wrong.

I'd say it's reconcilable simply because He has separated heaven and earth. If you want to be with God you will believe in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. Basically, if you want to go to heaven you will do what needs to be done. If you don't want to go you will reject Jesus and God will say something to the effect of "have it your way" and that's the way it will be.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I'd say it's reconcilable simply because He has separated heaven and earth. If you want to be with God you will believe in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. Basically, if you want to go to heaven you will do what needs to be done. If you don't want to go you will reject Jesus and God will say something to the effect of "have it your way" and that's the way it will be.

And for all the people that want to go to their version of Heaven who's only apparent crime is following a different faith path?

And I'm exactly sure that is reconciling the two - it is just saying "accept it." As in "Accept that if God's law was applied to earth most everyone would be in jail or dead and most people would deep it a foul tyranny but it is perfectly acceptable for it to be the foundation of the afterlife where it would be permanent."

It seems reconciling requires a suspension of disbelief as well as the idea that human reason from earth is either nonexistent once one shuffles of the mortal coil or it is warped in a major way.

What happened (in the terms of your christian mythology) to the souls of all of the humans who were born before jesus christ's words were told to us?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And for all the people that want to go to their version of Heaven who's only apparent crime is following a different faith path?

And I'm exactly sure that is reconciling the two - it is just saying "accept it." As in "Accept that if God's law was applied to earth most everyone would be in jail or dead and most people would deep it a foul tyranny but it is perfectly acceptable for it to be the foundation of the afterlife where it would be permanent."

It seems reconciling requires a suspension of disbelief as well as the idea that human reason from earth is either nonexistent once one shuffles of the mortal coil or it is warped in a major way.

Originally posted by Jbill311
What happened (in the terms of your christian mythology) to the souls of all of the humans who were born before jesus christ's words were told to us?

marchello has the same problem as jia{sock any1?}. he seems to think of humans as inherently evil ungrateful and by their nature, unworthy creatures who have been ufairly given a great shortcut by god to enter heaven for which they shud be eternally grateful for.

statement: marchello is also sick like every other zealot christian including jia

conclusion: relegion can be pathological

{i see why feceman prefers thisstyle so mutch. a lot can be said in very little, frustrating the opposition}

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And for all the people that want to go to their version of Heaven who's only apparent crime is following a different faith path?

And I'm exactly sure that is reconciling the two - it is just saying "accept it." As in "Accept that if God's law was applied to earth most everyone would be in jail or dead and most people would deep it a foul tyranny but it is perfectly acceptable for it to be the foundation of the afterlife where it would be permanent."

It seems reconciling requires a suspension of disbelief as well as the idea that human reason from earth is either nonexistent once one shuffles of the mortal coil or it is warped in a major way.

***Humanistic rationalization.

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***Humanistic rationalization.

Marchello

yea, because humanism is SUCH an evil phenomenon, an abomination to jehovah 🙄

Originally posted by Nellinator
It isn't just another faith path, and it is never the case that is the only sin that they have committed. Believing in your own version of heaven doesn't make it real. Now, I do believe that the heaven described in the Bible is real, but that doesn't make it so. If our faith is misplaced we're screwed. If I'm wrong there is a good chance that I'll either be screwed or there will be no consequences. That's the way it is I guess. It isn't something I think about too often though.

What do you mean it isn't another faith path? They are on the path of another faith. And it is the only sin that matters. Simon may have been a quite chap who always paid his taxes and helped little old ladies cross the street but his Atheism will apparently damn him, where as Ted could have been a drunken murderer and his eventual faith will save him. The only sin you will be judged on at the end isn't whether you have lied/cheated/killed/etc it will be whether you joined the club or not.

And Ultimately realising that humanity isn't perfect, recognising one has made mistakes - these things are irrelevant. If the Heaven and God as described by people here and there is true it doesn't matter if you are repentant, - the only thing that matters is whether you are repentant to the right God.

Which is why it is such good marketing. Everybody is automatically damned. We have no say in it. It doesn't matter if the most serious "sin" we ever commit is telling a lie, we might as well be baby eaters. The only way not to be damned is to join the club. Thus the only sin that matters in the end is whether or not ones faith is correct. Faith saves, lack of faith (for whatever reason) damns.

And that is the point - if you died, there was an afterlife, despite you living a good life, aware of your fallibility's yet doing your best to be a good person would it be fair or right to miss out on Heaven because you were in the wrong faith? (As many people apparently will?), or not in a religious faith at all? Especially considering such judgements on earth would be the height of discrimination (since you can't be discriminated against based on faith)?

***Humanistic rationalization.

Marchello

And what is wrong with that? Seriously the tone of those two words makes me think you are spitting them out.

yea, because humanism is SUCH an evil phenomenon, an abomination to jehovah

I don't know - those theists who make out Atheists must be terribly sad creatures without direction or hope in one breath then in the next they are expressing such disgust in all things "human" - "humans, every inclination is for evil, so undeserving, so unworthy, we should be thankful God cares, because we don't deserve nothing never".

Seriously if it wasn't for the whole faith part they'd almost be Nihilists.