What I want to know is why do we never have NDE of people going to Hell before coming back? They all seem to go to heaven.
Anyway, I am dubious about the claims. The whole "definitely dead" thing could be dodgy. I know there have been a lot of Emergency personnel, sometimes in serious accidents or in high stress situations where a misdiagnosis or incorrect declaration of death has been made. And where even doctors in the past have thought someone dead who was simply in a very, very deep coma (or in very deep shock.)
As to Doctors throwing their hands up and going "it is a miracle!" - once again not so strange, and not as indicative as it sounds. I have a med student friend who enjoys telling me stories (mostly about autopsies) where something of very low probability has occurred and someone has gone "it is a miracle."
But anyway - this claim, it is Jesus level stuff. It is not a Near Death Experience. If it is true, really true, then he was dead. And his brain should have been so badly damaged that it shouldn't have mattered whether he came back or not. And most Christians tell me that Jesus level miracles are not really that common any more. People seeing a light when being near dead? Sure, why not. But a person being really dead and badly messed up from an accident? I mean gee, if the accident was bad enough to kill him, they wouldn't have been fixing his body after he was dead, would they? Technically when he "came back from heaven his body should still have been in a bad state.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
What I want to know is why do we never have NDE of people going to Hell before coming back? They all seem to go to heaven.Anyway, I am dubious about the claims. The whole "definitely dead" thing could be dodgy. I know there have been a lot of Emergency personnel, sometimes in serious accidents or in high stress situations where a misdiagnosis or incorrect declaration of death has been made. And where even doctors in the past have thought someone dead who was simply in a very, very deep coma (or in very deep shock.)
As to Doctors throwing their hands up and going "it is a miracle!" - once again not so strange, and not as indicative as it sounds. I have a med student friend who enjoys telling me stories (mostly about autopsies) where something of very low probability has occurred and someone has gone "it is a miracle."
But anyway - this claim, it is Jesus level stuff. It is not a Near Death Experience. If it is true, really true, then he was dead. And his brain should have been so badly damaged that it shouldn't have mattered whether he came back or not. And most Christians tell me that Jesus level miracles are not really that common any more. People seeing a light when being near dead? Sure, why not. But a person being really dead and badly messed up from an accident? I mean gee, if the accident was bad enough to kill him, they wouldn't have been fixing his body after he was dead, would they? Technically when he "came back from heaven his body should still have been in a bad state.
Good points, but I fear you're just wasting your breath... Look at the first 2-3 pages of this thread, I tried and tried to get JIA to understand what happens with brain oxygen depletion, he just won't accept facts.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Much like Communism religion can find mass support amongst those unhappy or dreaming of something, anything, better then their current prediciment.If I was cynical...
I honestly can't blame those 'untouchable' Indians for converting, their religion pretty much takes a huge smelly dump on them the moment they are born. But converting to Christianity won't do anything though, they'll still be in Indian and they'll still be shat upon.
Originally posted by Robtard
I honestly can't blame those 'untouchable' Indians for converting, their religion pretty much takes a huge smelly dump on them the moment they are born. But converting to Christianity won't do anything though, they'll still be in Indian and they'll still be shat upon.
True, which is what makes it sad. But then some say that hope, even false hope is better then nothing. Ultimately without real social change (which Christianity is not there to provide) they are going to remain untouchable, they will simply think that after death Jesus will give them a hug.
Though it is an interesting twist - with numbers amongst the powerful and rich (the traditional old white Protestant male) dropping they are going back to their roots - the needy.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
True, which is what makes it sad. But then some say that hope, even false hope is better then nothing. Ultimately without real social change (which Christianity is not there to provide) they are going to remain untouchable, they will simply think that after death Jesus will give them a hug.Though it is an interesting twist - with numbers amongst the powerful and rich (the traditional old white Protestant male) dropping they are going back to their roots - the needy.
Good point, being a Christian can get in the way of being powerful and rich.