Pre Ret Con Beyonder Vs. THe Presence

Originally posted by lft4ded
You scans seem to go one way and then the other. First he says he can do it easily (after some prep and detailing, unlike the snap of a finger it took Living Tribunal to RECREATE the abstracts after Adam Warlock blew them to the weeds.) and then he says "I--I suppose I could try! Maybe if someone...some sentient creature were willing..." He not only seems uncertain, but to require outside assistance.

Also, while Beyonder said he restricted his power when interacting with Earth heroes I don't see him restricting himself when interacting with the abstracts.

All of the Abstracts are the embodiments of concepts: Eternity/Time, Infinity/Space, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Death...

"Warlock obliterates the hierarchy" of abstracts. LT allows him to do that. And then with a snap of his fingers he "recreates the Abstracts".

But when it was only one being threatened? Eternity's reason for calling the conference. LT only said that it was the way of things.

Likewise,when the Beyonder only obliterated *one* of the multi-abstracts? LT again does nothing and says that thus passeth the old ways. If Beyonder had instead destroyed them all and even LT couldn't resist or stop him then we could reasonably say that Beyonder was beyond the LT, until then we have two incidents were a single abstract was threatened/destroyed and LT did nothing but figuratively said 'oh, well'.

Like Cain killing Able? Or Adam and Eve introducing the concept of Death? Bad stuff happens. And on top of that Death was re-introduced. It would've know that. Omniscience does come in handy doesn't it?

But still a mere universe. Universal < Multiversal. Death's M-body is normally a tiny thing compared to a Celestial but who's more powerful. What does size matter? LT and Eternity normally manifest as the same size but who is more powerful.

And the Beyonder had to become his universe. TOAA (Going by the assumption that TOAA = Presence) created the multiverse.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
quite the excellent analysis of the debate at hand.

But than again. The Multi-verse is only a small fraction of Beyonder's power...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Exept that he forgot to think... Well yeah.
He said that TOAA is superior because he created a Multi-verse.
And that Beyonder was infernor because he had only created universes.

But than again. The Multi-verse is only a small fraction of Beyonder's power...

You missed the entire crux of his argument and saw only what you wanted to. He even explained the Multiverse as opposed to a universe. The Presence has been shown in this thread to be vastly superior to the pre retcon beyonder. Presence=TOAA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pre Ret Con Beyonder

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You missed the entire crux of his argument and saw only what you wanted to. He even explained the Multiverse as opposed to a universe. The Presence has been shown in this thread to be vastly superior to the pre retcon beyonder. Presence=TOAA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pre Ret Con Beyonder

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
1, You don't know how to use ">, <, =".
2, Yet Presence have no actual feats or real statements. Isn't it sad, you wouldent convice a jury with just that, you wouldent convince anyone with that.
3, It's sad...

Originally posted by galan7777777
if by feats u mean god/yahweh talking about how he could effortlessly end ALL of existance, then yes he has had feats

Was it shown that Presence with help could defeat the Great Evil Beast? - Yes, yes it was.

And was it stated that the Great Evil Beast equalled the Presence? - Yes, yes it was.

Was the Great Evil Beast at writer level? - No, no he wasent.

Was it stated by Stan Lee himself that Beyonder was supose to represent the power the wrtier had over the comics. - Yes, yes it was.

How could Spectre (fully backed up by God) lose?
Even a fraction of infinity = infinity.
infinity - infinity = infinity
infinity / infinity = infinity
infinity + 1 = infinity
infinity * infinity = infinity

So with a fraction of infinity, the fraction must be equally as powerful.

with all that math gibberish aside, the presence/god was shown on pannel holding ALL of creation (which was represented by a white orb) in his hand, saying that he could either restore all of creation or destroy it......

Originally posted by galan7777777
with all that math gibberish aside, the presence/god was shown on pannel holding ALL of creation (which was represented by a white orb) in his hand, saying that he could either restore all of creation or destroy it......

Can I ask you a question, back than in the 80s.
Who was the most powerful beings throughout the comics?

Originally posted by lft4ded
You scans seem to go one way and then the other. First he says he can do it easily (after some prep and detailing, unlike the snap of a finger it took Living Tribunal to RECREATE the abstracts after Adam Warlock blew them to the weeds.)

Didn't know MULTI-DEATH was there, and I also didn't know there were MULTIVERSAL Abstracts there.

hmm...Eternity the Living Tribunal and this bunch of NON Multiversals.

Not even Universal Death is there.

Originally posted by lft4ded
and then he says "I--I suppose I could try! Maybe if someone...some sentient creature were willing..." He not only seems uncertain, but to require outside assistance.

I never claimed Beyonder's Omniscience was on par with TOAA or the Presence.

"outside assistance"? 😆

Beyonder was the ONLY being in the Multiverse that figured it out.

Beyonder was the ONLY being in the Multiverse that was able to KILL Dave.

Beyonder was the ONLY being in the Multiverse that was able to Re-introduce Death to the MULTI-VERSE (Unlike our compadres up top)

Originally posted by lft4ded
Also, while Beyonder said he restricted his power when interacting with Earth heroes I don't see him restricting himself when interacting with the abstracts.

You show me where he SAID He DIDN'T Restrict his powers, and I'll agree.

Cause I already displayed several scans of Him & Dr Strange saying that He DID.

Originally posted by lft4ded
All of the Abstracts are the embodiments of concepts: Eternity/Time, Infinity/Space, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Death...

"Warlock obliterates the hierarchy" of abstracts. LT allows him to do that. And then with a snap of his fingers he "recreates the Abstracts".

No doubt, the Living Tribunal is my man.

Unfortunately though the Abstracts your talking about were ALL UNIVERSAL, and LESS than UNIVERSAL, including Eternity (who was representing ONE UNIVERSE)

Try and understand, Beyonder ERASED the MULTIVERSAL Concept of Death.

That has NEVER been done before or after.

Originally posted by lft4ded
But when it was only one being threatened? Eternity's reason for calling the conference. LT only said that it was the way of things.

That's correct,

because Thanos ONLY wanted ONE UNIVERSE to deliver to Death:

Eternity asking LT for help

LT will not interfere

Originally posted by lft4ded
Likewise,when the Beyonder only obliterated *one* of the multi-abstracts? LT again does nothing and says that thus passeth the old ways. If Beyonder had instead destroyed them all and even LT couldn't resist or stop him then we could reasonably say that Beyonder was beyond the LT, until then we have two incidents were a single abstract was threatened/destroyed and LT did nothing but figuratively said 'oh, well'.

No offense, but this ALL gibberish.

And you'l agree now if you read everything Above this.

I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote.

Originally posted by lft4ded
But still a mere universe. Universal < Multiversal. Death's M-body is normally a tiny thing compared to a Celestial but who's more powerful. What does size matter? LT and Eternity normally manifest as the same size but who is more powerful.

😕

Originally posted by lft4ded
And the Beyonder had to become his universe.

Beyonder became his Universe, and was one with everything, just like God is one with everything.

It's his Universe and everything is acccording to the Beyonder

Originally posted by lft4ded
TOAA (Going by the assumption that TOAA = Presence) created the multiverse.

TOAA created the Multiverse

and Beyonder Created a Universe 22 QUINTILLION times Bigger than that, as a matter of FACT...it was INFINITE

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Can I ask you a question, back than in the 80s.
Who was the most powerful beings throughout the comics?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
quite the excellent analysis of the debate at hand.

Quite Not, evidently...

😂

Obviously a drop in the ocean is supose to mean next to infinity.
It's like some say, our planet compared to the universe is comparable to a drop in the ocean.

Originally posted by galan7777777
but we are comparing pre ret beyonder to the presence now.... the most powerful in the 80's has nothing to do with this

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Indeed it do... Do you, belive that in lets say 20 years the Presence will be replaced?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Obviously a drop in the ocean is supose to mean next to infinity.
It's like some say, our planet compared to the universe is comparable to a drop in the ocean.

Exactly,

That's what some are not understanding.

they're saying, "TOAA created a Multi-verse, and that is no mere Universe"

😆

But Beyonder's UNIVERSE was roughly 22 QUINTILLION times Bigger than that,

A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean

There are 22 Quintillion drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography

Or simply INFINITE:

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND.

If mercedez makes a car that is more powerful than any that GM has ever made, Does that mean then that mercedes is more powerful than GM? Gm the Largest and most powerful car maker in the world? The beyonder's actions in no way dwarf the majesty that is the Presence. The Presence is infinitely powerful. The beyonder is not. It can't be any more simple than that. The beyonder has some quantifiable lvl of power. The Presence does not.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Presence is infinitely powerful. The beyonder is not.

TOAA created the MULTI-VERSE

and Beyonder Created a UNIVERSE 22 QUINTILLION times BIGGER than TOAA's Multi-verse, as a matter of FACT...it was INFINITE

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND"

Go read Comics...

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA created the MULTI-VERSE

and Beyonder Created a UNIVERSE 22 QUINTILLION times BIGGER than TOAA's Multi-verse, as a matter of FACT...it was INFINITE

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND"

Go read Comics...

What does this have to do with my statement? Absolutely NOTHING!! The beyonder has a quantifiable power. And it was stated on panel as such. The Presence's power is unquantifiable becuz it is infinite. Stated on PANEL. The beyonder looses BADLY. He gets treated and sent back to his little dimension or where ever he comes from. And the presence desides he likes the beyonder, and makes one of his own. The Beyonder is HOPElESSLY outclassed against the supreme being. As far as meeting no resistance in the infinite beyond, How many times has TOAA and the presence sat back and watched events unfold just cuz they can? It's like TV to them. They dont' have to do anything until they get ready. It is already written that they will win. T

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
his little dimension or where ever he comes from.

TOAA created the MULTI-VERSE

But Beyonder CREATED a UNIVERSE that was roughly 22 QUINTILLION times BIGGER than TOAA's Multi-verse

A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean

There are 22 Quintillion Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography

or simply INFINITE

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND"