Pre Ret Con Beyonder Vs. THe Presence

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA created the MULTI-VERSE

But Beyonder CREATED a UNIVERSE that was roughly 22 QUINTILLION times BIGGER than TOAA's Multi-verse

A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean

There are 22 Quintillion Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography

or simply INFINITE

"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND"

You should read this forum. Most people agree with me. Your spin on the words on the page do not change the fact that the beyonder on panel has been shown to have limitations, and has been stated to be X number of times more powerful than the Multiverse. That Number is a quantity. There for he looses. Becuz no matter how big it is, it's nothing to the infinite power of the presence.

Originally posted by galan7777777
an infinate being can never be replaced, in fact the presence isnt really a being, he just occasionally takes human form

It's like some think, that history have reached its end, that history is no longer writen.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So the supreme being can never be replaced...?
At his time Beyonder was the supreme being.
And now after his retcon TOAA took his place.

It's like some think, that history have reached its end, that history is no longer writen.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You should read this forum. Most people agree with me. Your spin on the words on the page do not change the fact that the beyonder on panel has been shown to have limitations, and has been stated to be X number of times more powerful than the Multiverse. That Number is a quantity. There for he looses. Becuz no matter how big it is, it's nothing to the infinite power of the presence.

Some members are miss-guided, and about 99% of the members have not read the old Beyonder series.

Beyonder released powers more powerful than all the other forces in the Multi-verse combinded.
Does this mean that Beyonder's limit is millions of Multi-verses? - No.
When Doom w/ Fp Galactus power died, did he cause the destruction of the universe? - He was as powerful as it.

I doubt that you're actually 30 years old, and if you are you skipped collage.

Originally posted by galan7777777
where do u get that there was no god at the time of the beyonder? heres a woman from the beyonder series praying to god to save her
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondervsnm1nu2.jpg

And if:
What did the "father in heaven" do to prevent this?
Nothing, Beyonder took them all out when "father in heaven" didn't do a squat.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis...
It's more symbolic, children belive in a higher being, just because they lack of intelligence. Why do you think he was the only one praying.

And if:
What did the "father in heaven" do to prevent this?
Nothing, Beyonder took them all out when "father in heaven" didn't do a squat.

Originally posted by galan7777777
where do u get that there was no god at the time of the beyonder? heres a woman from the beyonder series praying to god to save her
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondervsnm1nu2.jpg

Come on g,

this does not say anything special, and if she was praying to "god"...it did her little good, she was disintegrated shortly after that.

The Beyonder was GOD

"I. who utterly dictate ALL Reality"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Come on g,

this does not say anything special, and if she was praying to "god"...it did her little good, she was disintegrated shortly after that.

The Beyonder was GOD

"I. who utterly dictate ALL Reality"

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis...
It's more symbolic, children belive in a higher being, just because they lack of intelligence. Why do you think he was the only one praying.

And if:
What did the "father in heaven" do to prevent this?
Nothing, Beyonder took them all out when "father in heaven" didn't do a squat.

your post is arrogant and offensive. you seem to be saying that billions of people the world over (including numerous scientists and physicists) are stupid because we happen to believe in something you don't. kindly keep such thoughts to yourself.

as far as this thread -- where exactly does it say that anyone has seen the full extent of the presence's might or the toaa's might? why is it seemingly unreasonable to say they only used the tiniest fraction of their OWN power to create what they have . . .?

Originally posted by galan7777777
this is a hypothetical battle...... the presence/god held ALL of creation in his hands and said that he could destroy it or recreate it......

That's nice,

I never said Beyonder would defeat the Presence, that's another company, I said stalemate, cause none would win.

And Beyonder could ALSO take ALL of creation and "destroy it or recreate it"..

Originally posted by galan7777777
he didnt say that he could destroy everything except the uncreated realms=beyond realm.....

"uncreated realms=beyond realm"?

How'd you come up with this?

and what does this mean?

Originally posted by galan7777777
all of existance means everything that ever has or will exist,

I think "existence" simply means, All that Exists.

How can something that hasn't happened, be existence?

Originally posted by galan7777777
im not saying that beyonder wasnt a badass, because he was....... but he couldnt match up to god

Like I said, there would be no winner,

if Beyonder steps in his house, Beyonder loses.

If the Presence steps into our house, Beyonder wins.

If they fight on neutral ground, stalemate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's nice,

I never said Beyonder would defeat the Presence, that's another company, I said stalemate, cause none would win.

And Beyonder could ALSO take ALL of creation and "destroy it or recreate it"..

"uncreated realms=beyond realm"?

How'd you come up with this?

and what does this mean?

I think "existence" simply means, All that Exists.

How can something that hasn't happened, be existence?

Like I said, there would be no winner,

if Beyonder steps in his house, Beyonder loses.

If the Presence steps into our house, Beyonder wins.

If they fight on neutral ground, stalemate.

1. yes but other people are implying that he would win, and i just wanted to put it out there (no offense 2 you)

2. since we are talking about the presence which is from DC, there are "uncreated realms" of which he is still responsible for, they are outside of all existance, this in my oppinion is equivelant to the realms "beyond" in marvel

3. because even if it hasnt happened yet the point is that it will eventually happen, which is part of gods "plan"

4. and i will agree that it will be a stalemate at best...... but the beyonder was allowed to exist in the realm of existance which would imply he was part of gods creation as well

Originally posted by galan7777777
since we are talking about the presence which is from DC, there are "uncreated realms" of which he is still responsible for, they are outside of all existance, this in my oppinion is equivelant to the realms "beyond" in marvel

The Beyond Realm was an OCEAN

And the Marvel Multi-verse was a DROP of Water

These "uncreated realms"...do not = the Beyond Realm

Originally posted by galan7777777
3. because even if it hasnt happened yet the point is that it will eventually happen, which is part of gods "plan"

Ok that makes sense,

but Existence is ONLY what is, not what will be, that would be Future existence.

Originally posted by galan7777777
but the beyonder was allowed to exist in the realm of existance which would imply he was part of gods creation as well

"allowed to exist in the realm of existance"?

Where did you read that?

And who said the Beyond Realm was the Realm of Non-Existence?

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Beyond Realm was an OCEAN

And the Marvel Multi-verse was a DROP of Water

These "uncreated realms"...do not = the Beyond Realm

Ok that makes sense,

but Existence is ONLY what is, not what will be, that would be Future existence.

"allowed to exist in the realm of existance"?

Where did you read that?

And who said the Beyond Realm was the Realm of Non-Existence?

2. but the point is that god held EVERYTHING in his hand even time, and without time nothing would exist, or ever have/will exist

3. if god/TOAA truly didnt want beyonder to exist in his multiverse do u honestly think he would have been able to? i could go as far as to say that it was god that allowed all of the things beyonder did to come to pass, and it couldnt be disproven..... that just makes me think of how crappy this thread is lol! just by having to compare the beyonder to the presence should show just how powerful the beyonder was lol

Originally posted by galan7777777
1. how so?the uncreated realm is stated as a nigh infinate realm

Nigh means Near.

Originally posted by galan7777777
2. but the point is that god held EVERYTHING in his hand even time, and without time nothing would exist, or ever have/will exist

And so Beyonder could have destroyed Time, the Timestream as a whole in Fact

Marvel, as we know it, would have been ERASED

Originally posted by galan7777777
3. if god/TOAA truly didnt want beyonder to exist in his multiverse do u honestly think he would have been able to?

When you show me where it says TOAA had anything to do with Beyonder's entrance or exit of the Multi-verse, we'll continue on that one.

Until then, NO ONE directed the Beyonder in any way, he was the Most powerful being anywhere and everywhere in between.

Originally posted by galan7777777
i could go as far as to say that it was god that allowed all of the things beyonder did to come to pass, and it couldnt be disproven.....

Sure, I can say aunt May was behind the whole thing, posing as a helpless old lady, but controlling the Beyonder all along, "and it couldnt be disproven" either.

Originally posted by galan7777777
that just makes me think of how crappy this thread is lol! just by having to compare the beyonder to the presence should show just how powerful the beyonder was

😮‍💨

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nigh means Near.

And so Beyonder could have destroyed Time, the Timestream as a whole in Fact

Marvel, as we know it, would have been ERASED

When you show me where it says TOAA had anything to do with Beyonder's entrance or exit of the Multi-verse, we'll continue on that one.

Until then, NO ONE directed the Beyonder in any way, he was the Most powerful being anywhere and everywhere in between.

Sure, I can say aunt May was behind the whole thing, posing as a helpless old lady, but controlling the Beyonder all along, "and it couldnt be disproven" either.

😮‍💨

Originally posted by galan7777777
the scan even has the beyonder doubting whether or not he could survive without time itself, this demonstrates that god is above him (at least in that aspect)

Beyonder also wasn't sure he could bring back Death:

Remember he sometimes didn't know his own capabilities.

Which is why I said:

Beyonder > TOAA in power, but Not Omniscience

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder also wasn't sure he could bring back Death:

Remember he sometimes didn't know his own capabilities.

Which is why I said:

Beyonder > TOAA in power, but Not Omniscience

Originally posted by galan7777777
i agree that he didnt know the full extent of what he could do, but even so would u say that destroying death is anywhere near the feat of destroying all of time......beyonder was worried about this, god wasnt

But I showed you a scan where Beyonder could Destroy ALL of Time too.

And he wasn't worried about it,

Where in the scan does he imply "worry"?

He was philosophizing about what would happen without Time, it was Richards that said, "can even you survive without time"...Not the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But I showed you a scan where Beyonder could Destroy ALL of Time too.

And he wasn't worried about it,

Where in the scan does he imply "worry"?

He was philosophizing about what would happen without Time, it was Richards that said, "can even you survive without time"...Not the Beyonder.

Originally posted by galan7777777
yes i admit that beyonder could destroy time but even he says "perhaps you are right richards" etc.......this would imply that he was worried about destroying it to some degree or else why would he have given what reed said any thought? why wouldnt he have collapsed time?

"perhaps you are right richards"....."PERHAPS" which means he wasn't sure.

Here the Beyonder is absolutely SURE he can NOT bring back Death

I don't even think he was talking about himself, but rather himself in THIS MUlti-verse.

After all, Beyonder WAS Time and Space and EVERYTHING inbetween in the Beyond Realm