Originally posted by olympian
Migth be, that was never confirmed in the story at that point. He didnt seemed particulary weakened (evidence by going toe to toe with Marvel) and admited before that, that he was flying slower just to be off the radar of the kid they wer tracking.
He might not have been weakened in that fight, but he was certainly fatigued. And he still came out on top in that fight.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's a sexist world we live in. That's why.
That's not gonna fly with me. bats opened up his mouth and said Superman has more strength showings than Diana. And I said it's becuz he's the flag ship character. He woudln't except that. So Cap doesn't have nearly the strength Feats Superman Does, and Yet he's Superman's Equal? I want to know the rational behind what Bats is saying when no one in DC has the strength Showings of Superman. NOt even Orion or Doomsday. Yet we know they are stronger than Supers.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I still want to know why Bats said Cap and Superman Are equal and WW is not and Cap doesn't have the strength showings that superman does. how come cap gets this title of being equal and ww does not. And ww actually has hurt supers alot more than cap. What gives with that?
By that logic, WW cant ever be called his equal either because she also lacks his strength feats.
CM is called more his equal than her because we have seen pure strength stalemates in the form of armwrestling that took hours and neither was losing.
WW, usually when figthing SM, and both her two battles with Superman showed it, that strength alone didnt got her anywhere. She usually resorts to skills to have the advantage. In comparation if we check the times CM has fought a mind controlled Superman he either holds back manages to yet hold its own, or he stalemates him. Its the showings that make them different.
Black Adam recently also stalemated a no holds back SM without figthing back most of the thing. And him and CM are peers.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlJust for the record I don't really consisder Cap Supes equal. Maybe physically, but Superman is alot more powerful than Cap or WW.
That's not gonna fly with me. bats opened up his mouth and said Superman has more strength showings than Diana. And I said it's becuz he's the flag ship character. He woudln't except that. So Cap doesn't have nearly the strength Feats Superman Does, and Yet he's Superman's Equal? I want to know the rational behind what Bats is saying when no one in DC has the strength Showings of Superman. NOt even Orion or Doomsday. Yet we know they are stronger than Supers.
Originally posted by olympian
By that logic, WW cant ever be called his equal either because she also lacks his strength feats.CM is called more his equal than her because we have seen pure strength stalemates in the form of armwrestling that took hours and neither was losing.
WW, usually when figthing SM, and both her two battles with Superman showed it, that strength alone didnt got her anywhere. She usually resorts to skills to have the advantage. In comparation if we check the times CM has fought a mind controlled Superman he either holds back manages to yet hold its own, or he stalemates him. Its the showings that make them different.
Black Adam recently also stalemated a no holds back SM without figthing back most of the thing. And him and CM are peers.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That's not gonna fly with me. bats opened up his mouth and said Superman has more strength showings than Diana. And I said it's becuz he's the flag ship character. He woudln't except that. So Cap doesn't have nearly the strength Feats Superman Does, and Yet he's Superman's Equal? I want to know the rational behind what Bats is saying when no one in DC has the strength Showings of Superman. NOt even Orion or Doomsday. Yet we know they are stronger than Supers.
Captain Marvel has statelmated Clark in a test of strength several times.
Doomsday has looked physically superior at least twice.
Originally posted by olympian
1- The Hyperclan were Superman ballpark, the same way MM is. They are martians. But MM isent SM -equal- despise being also top tier. You can see in the last match Superman had, that when there wasent no sneak attack he showed to be stronger than his opponent. Obviously being in the same ballpark means they *can* beat each other. But the strength difference is there.2- When did WW speedblitz someone of the Hyperclan?
SHE SPEED BLITZED FLUXUS WHEN HER AND AQUAMAN WERE FIGHTING THE HYPERCLAN. SHE KNOCKED HIM THE **** OUT.
3- Heracles is a god like the others. And here is where the inconsistancy among the writers at DC shows. CM usually stalemates SM *alone* with having his strength. WW usually *needs" to use also skills to tip the scales. You also have of course to prove that in the DCU, having the strength of Gaea makes you automatically stronger than Heracles. Because WW level of strength is top tier. And CM level is top tier. So either:
a) WW doesnt have all Gaea`s strength.
OH YES, DIANA HAS GAEA'S STRENGTH. IN THE COMICS SHE HAS EVEN USED IT TO DRAW MORE STRENGTH. THE JUSTICE LEAGUE SECRET FILES LIST HER AS NOT EVEN KNOWING HER UPPER LIMIT OF STRENGTH AS SHE HAS NEVER REACHED IT.b) Gaea`s whole strength is only top tier lvl.
c) She actually has Demeter`s strength, like Perez showed.
DEMETER ONLY GAVE DIANA THE ACCESS TO GAEA'S STRENGTH. I HAVE WW NUMBER 1.As for Captain Marvel, he either:
a) Has the full measure of Heracles strength. Wich is top tier.
b) Only has a portion. And here is where hell breaks loose. Because man, if CM only has a portion of Heracles and *still* makes it to the top tier (like we all know he does) then Heracles has to be automatically *above*.
DIANA IS SAID BY DC TO BE STRONGER THAN HERCULESE. SINCE HER VERY BEGINNING.
Lets continue now.
- Yes WW battled a clone stronger than the original. So did the Champion who was actually Heracles. Guess what, they wer showed in the same ballpark, both lasting and figthing together until the end.
- We just know Superman is stronger because when they are trading punches he regulary comes up better. The difference isent obvioulsy *huge* that the artist would bother be that detailed and make WW`s side battling with the strain. IF HE CAN OUT BETTER LIKE YOU SAY, THEN HOW COME HE DOES WORSE WITH WW THAN WITH CAPTAIN MARVEL?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, And we have also seen Diana Hold back each time she fought Superman. So I Won't accept that. I also have seen Diana Hurt Superman much more than Cap. And I dont' recall seeing any strength feats from captain atom that are even as good as diana's. Even when she had help. She was still doing a shit load of work. One can't say captain Marvel is equal simply becuz of showings. Becuz WW has him beat in that dept. She has kicked Superman's ass waaay better than cap. And she was holding back as well.
1- You have seen by her own words, WW *barely* holding back against him. And you also if you ever read have seen CM specifically not figthing back against him.
2- One of Captain Marvel`s feats is precisely doing one of the Moon push that Diana also participated. And just like WW can be called M ballpark by the evidence of her track record against top tiers despise having alot less feats than SM, so can CM be called his ballpark by the same logic. Why is he more equal than her? Its been refered more times than WW/SM, and physically wise, he actually has stalemates.
"IF HE CAN OUT BETTER LIKE YOU SAY, THEN HOW COME HE DOES WORSE WITH WW THAN WITH CAPTAIN MARVEL?"
Oh i dont know. because HE USUALLY DOESNT WANT TO FIGHT HIM AND NEVER RESORTS TO DRASTIC SOLUTIONS? MAYBE THATS WHY HE PREFERED CHANGE TO BILLY IN THE LAST ONE INSTEAD OF HURTING HIM?
yeah, maybe thats why.
Originally posted by olympian
1- You have seen by her own words, WW *barely* holding back against him. And you also if you ever read have seen CM specifically not figthing back against him.2- One of Captain Marvel`s feats is precissely doing one of the Moon push that Diana also participated. And just like WW can be called Sm ballpark by the evidence of her track record against top tiers, despise having alot less feats than SM, so can CM be called his ballpark by the same logic. Why is he more equal than her? Its been refered more times than WW/SM, and physically wise, he actually has stalemates.
I think ur missing the whole basis of my point. Stop looking for something to go against and just read what i'm saying. I'm saying that Someone said Superman had more strength feats and better ones than diana therefor he is way stronger. I replied that Cap Marvel and Doomsday dont' have that many strength feats either. so why are they considered equal to superman and doomsday is stronger yet they dont' have any feats? I'm just trying to point out inconsistancy in how people judge characters. The way i see it, Doomsday and Diana have Hurt Superman waaay more than Captain marvel has. Skill may get WW better shots in, but if she was waay less stronger like people suggest, she wouldn't have the strength to hurt supers as badly as she does. It's also been said on panel many times by Superman that Diana and Captain Marvel hit the same, and it has also been said that Superman and WOnder Woman have the same strength lvl. So again, what makes captain marvel superman's equal in strength and not diana? Hell, Diana is superior to cap marvel. She has waay more powers to call upon and can amp her healing and strength. I dont' think he can.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
When has Orion been shown to be stronger than Supes?
What? Orion is Superman's Superior. Orion can trade blows with Darkseid and kalibak for weeks on end. Superman would be drained from one fight with Darkseid if it last that long. Jeph loab not withstanding, Superman has never been able to physically best Darkseid.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think ur missing the whole basis of my point. Stop looking for something to go against and just read what i'm saying. I'm saying that Someone said Superman had more strength feats and better ones than diana therefor he is way stronger. I replied that Cap Marvel and Doomsday dont' have that many strength feats either. so why are they considered equal to superman and doomsday is stronger yet they dont' have any feats?
And. Who. is. saying. otherwise? Its the third time ive said this just today. Doomsday has no worthy feats of pure strength but hes conidered stronger than SM in some incarnations because (read it) he beat him physically.
So what is it? We cant just look at strength feats to determine who is in whos level of strenght. We have to look at the matches.
(wer talking of strength only here, get it?)
If i consider WW a top tier its because despise having pratically no solo feats of worth compared with SM, or Hulk etc she does good against top tiers. Therefore shes top tier.
Ditto for Captain Marvel.
The difference between Marvel and WW is just one. Physically speaking (strength, not overall power) she has more troubles with SM than CM. She usually switches the slug to the skill type or the weapon type. CM usually (not meaning he wont resort to lighting, but usually) doesnt switch the match for those. He keeps it strenght based, for most of it.
And also because he backs up more in order to not want to hurt the guy. Diana goes more for the kill, for a lack of a better word.
And Diana post crisis doesnt amp her strength, ok? Who started this rumor?