Originally posted by crazy
Not all Hadiths are believed by the Muslims, I am assuming you know that right.I believe in a higher being.
That is untrue.
All muslims know (and me coming from a strong background of such) that Qur'an does not make sense without the Hadiths.
You need the Hadiths to understand the Qur'an. It is actually as simple as that.
Originally posted by Alliance
Argh long posts 😛
Shush you 😛
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I understand, but for every Muslim crime, you can find a Christian crime thoughout history and even today, that CAN be backed up by Biblical text as well....
I don't think you do understand. The Bible is not the direct word of God, and by many Christians it is not considered to be so.
Bible is not considered to have been dictated word for word by the God.
Jews do not believe in such either. The only true thing which is believed to be dictated directly from God in the Bible are the 10 comandments.
In fact a lot of New Testament is ''John said this, Mark said that, Peter said the other bla bla bla''
Also, Bible does not promise sure heaen though dying for Jesus. They promise sure heaven in believing in Jesus.
Lets make one thing clear -
I want Muslims to bring back the Allah they worshiped BEFORE Muhammad came along.
The non-vengeful Allah.
The Allah which was peaceful and didnt hate Jews, Christians or Pagans.
The only thing NEW brought in with Muhammad was the governent system of Islam. The domination of Allah for the whole world.
Everything else existed BEFORE him. Islam needs to be reformed. Muhammad's teachings and example thrown away.
(who wants a prophet who at his 54the year marries and sleeps with 9 year old girl?!)
Once you do that, you will have the Allah which was there before. The Allah who allowed women to be pirestesses, to hold a business and not cover up.
The Allah who LOVED music and dance, and hated the killing of innocence.
Reformation of Islam, BACK to what it was before Muhammad. When the Muslims will not longer refer to themselves as 'The Nation of Muhammad'!
We are the nation of East, Middle East and Arabia, NOT the nation of murdurous warlord, Muhammad!
Originally posted by Alfheim
*sigh* Yes it does you are just being naive. The Quran more or less says that Abraham has a lot of integrity. People who have integrity dont go around smashing things that dont belong to them. If you see somebody doing something wrong and you dont say anything this usualy means its ok, especially in the case of God when he is supposed to tell us what is right and wrong.I brought it up because since the Quran does not rebuke Abraham for smashing the idols it therefore means its ok. Are you trying to tell me that you think its not ok to smash idols, but when God Almighty sees some one doing something wrong and he narrates in the Quran he is not going to say anything?
Originally posted by markie
No, islam is violent because the the koran says it is...
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't think you do understand. The Bible is not the direct word of God, and by many Christians it is not considered to be so.
Bible is not considered to have been dictated word for word by the God.
ARE YOU FKNN KIDDING ME ?!??!?!
Ask anyyyy fundamentalist..strike that...ask ANY CHRISTIAN period, and they will tell you the Bible is the direct word of God. VERY FEW Christians will consider that thier Texts are HUMAN dictated, and NOT GOD dictated...
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Jews do not believe in such either. The only true thing which is believed to be dictated directly from God in the Bible are the 10 comandments.
Jews are one thing...but the majority of Christians beleive that the Bible is flawless and comes directly from God.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
In fact a lot of New Testament is ''John said this, Mark said that, Peter said the other bla bla bla''
Doesn't matter. Most Christians take it as if John, Mark, and Peter were writing only what God " told them to write"...ask JIA 😛
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Also, Bible does not promise sure heaen though dying for Jesus. They promise sure heaven in believing in Jesus.
But the Bible does say to stone prostitutes, kill homosexuals, kill "bastard" children, slaughter pagans, "eye for an eye" if someone harms you, and to rip our your eye if you are married and stare at another person with lust....
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Lets make one thing clear -I want Muslims to bring back the Allah they worshiped BEFORE Muhammad came along.
The non-vengeful Allah.
Hasn't Muhammed founded Islam ?
How can thier be a "non vengeful" Allah, if the Quran portrays a vengeful Allah ?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The Allah which was peaceful and didnt hate Jews, Christians or Pagans.
The only thing NEW brought in with Muhammad was the governent system of Islam. The domination of Allah for the whole world.
I hate zealotry, don't you ?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Everything else existed BEFORE him. Islam needs to be reformed. Muhammad's teachings and example thrown away.
(who wants a prophet who at his 54the year marries and sleeps with 9 year old girl?!)
I agree...Muhammed sounds like a f*ck^%#$
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Once you do that, you will have the Allah which was there before. The Allah who allowed women to be pirestesses, to hold a business and not cover up.
The Allah who LOVED music and dance, and hated the killing of innocence.
This Allah seems cooler than Yahweh and Jehovah ! 😄
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Reformation of Islam, BACK to what it was before Muhammad. When the Muslims will not longer refer to themselves as 'The Nation of Muhammad'!
But how could the Muslims have existed before Muhammed? I thought he founded Islam...
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
We are the nation of East, Middle East and Arabia, NOT the nation of murdurous warlord, Muhammad!
You are Islamic ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]ARE YOU FKNN KIDDING ME ?!??!?!Ask anyyyy fundamentalist..strike that...ask ANY CHRISTIAN period, and they will tell you the Bible is the direct word of God. VERY FEW Christians will consider that thier Texts are HUMAN dictated, and NOT GOD dictated...
Jews are one thing...but the majority of Christians beleive that the Bible is flawless and comes directly from God.
Doesn't matter. Most Christians take it as if John, Mark, and Peter were writing only what God " told them to write"...ask JIA 😛
But the Bible does say to stone prostitutes, kill homosexuals, kill "bastard" children, slaughter pagans, "eye for an eye" if someone harms you, and to rip our your eye if you are married and stare at another person with lust....
Hasn't Muhammed founded Islam ?
How can thier be a "non vengeful" Allah, if the Quran portrays a vengeful Allah ?
I hate zealotry, don't you ?
I agree...Muhammed sounds like a f*ck^%#$
This Allah seems cooler than Yahweh and Jehovah ! 😄
But how could the Muslims have existed before Muhammed? I thought he founded Islam...
You are Islamic ? [/B]
Few points -
Number one - Allah existed long before Muhammad. He was the God of The Moon in Pagan Arabia. It is also believed that BEFORE that he was brought in by Syrians in Arabia, and that he was a Syrian equal of Zeus or Thor.
Allah was the Moon God - the overall ruler of the other gods, and he had 3 beautiful daughters by his side.
For his sign was Crescent Moon and a Star on top of his head.
(Many Muslims, particularly so in Middle East and Asia, STILL use Old Allah's symbol. And Islamic calendar is Lunar!)
Archaeological digs have found many statues of Allah in the Pagan Arabia, NOT destroyed by Muhammad and his followers.
THAT is the Allah BEFORE Muhammad.
And he had NOTHING against worshiping other Gods apart from him, nor did he have ANYTHING against having women preistesses in his name.
Nor did he want women covering.
Out of 4 uprisings against Muhammad in pre-silamic Arabia, 3 of those were LEAD by WOMEN. All high prestesses of Allah.
My heritage is Indio-European. Tribes of my heritage came from Middle East.
All our traditions, dance, clothes, food, and other random things are of Arabian and Persian origin, and NOT Islamic.
That and the mix of paganism which is still alive and well in my place of origin.
Thirdly, Jews are not ''another thing''. All of Old Testament IS Jewish.
What a lot of Christians fail to comprehend, is that Jesus thought AGAINST the rules of the Old Testament.
Obvious examples being, stoning and eating pork.
Im sure he said something along the lines that eating pork is alright, it will come out on the other end, the real dirt is what comes out of the mouth (or something to that effect)
He dies and Christians put the both testaments together. The Paul comes along and adds things the way he feels appropriate. Go figure.
Second - fundamentalist Christians.
Yeah, Amish are fundamentalists, but they are not trying to hijack a carriage at needle point.
Second, Christianity has reformed, anda lot of Christians who are so in name, and somewhat in practice do not take Bible literally. The basis of Christianity do not demand the Bible to be taken literally - in fact I don't think Jesus says anything about the bible...(i could be wrong here)
ALL Muslims MUST admit Qur'an as literal, or they are not admitting the very bases of Islam. The whole idea of Islam is that you MUST accept Qur'an without ANY question. Or you get killed.
Was pre-muhammadian Allah cool. Oh heck he was.
Seriously, polytheism was somehow working out better for everyone.
And Moses took the idea of One god from Egyptians - but he didn't take the lesson, unfortinately.
Egyptian Pharaoh tried the monotheism, ended up killing a lot of people, just to make Egyptians after his death proclaim him heretic and go back to worshiping lots of Gods...
Originally posted by Lumanix
Someone probably already pointed this out, but wasn't one of the points in the sppech criticizing the way Muslims react to criticism (often with violence and anger), and to this accusation they respond with anger and probably violence I haven't heard about yet?
A nun was murdered in Somalia, 10 Churches burned in Nigeria, and further more in Plestine and Pakistan.
Another man was murdered because of the remarks, either yesterday or the day before, I can't recall.
And thanks for pointing what you did. Its good to see, that the irony is not totally lost with everyone.
Originally posted by Alliance
May I also point out that the ambassadors at the Vatican made a strict point of saying that the actions of certain Muslims was not representative of the actions of the Muslim community.That while the vast majority of Muslims were offended, most did not resort to violence.
True, majority were offended. And the only thing muslims demended was breaking diplomatic relationship with Vatican, and that's all. They were not killling anyone or burning anything. I thought i'd rather make that clear before somebody started blaming muslims for kennedy's death...
Originally posted by Sam Z
True, majority were offended. And the only thing muslims demended was breaking diplomatic relationship with Vatican, and that's all. They were not killling anyone or burning anything. I thought i'd rather make that clear before somebody started blaming muslims for kennedy's death...
JIHAD UNITE !
You can't blame people for questioning Islam though, when you have such horribe people representing the Faith....those terrorists are making it much harder for Islam to gain any respect as a religion or even as a simple philosophy...
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
JIHAD UNITE !You can't blame people for questioning Islam though, when you have such horribe people representing the Faith....those terrorists are making it much harder for Islam to gain any respect as a religion or even as a simple philosophy...
I never asked terrorists to represent my religion and i don't blame people for questioning it, that's what anyone can do with any religion or power etc. And terrorists do not represent Islam, unfortunatly that's what people got used to. What they do controdicts Islam and it upsets me that actions of criminals make people think bad of entire religion.
Originally posted by Sam Z
True, majority were offended. And the only thing muslims demended was breaking diplomatic relationship with Vatican, and that's all. They were not killling anyone or burning anything. I thought i'd rather make that clear before somebody started blaming muslims for kennedy's death...
And clearly the Islamic community is willing to keep diplomatic ties despite this instance.
Originally posted by Sam Z
That post above wasn't for you.
It was for people that prefere to judge about religion by Wikipedia instead of reading Qur'an, Bible etc.
Here.You actually asked me "Why Qur'an doesn't criticise Abraham" and not if it was right or wrong. What i said was "So you think that Islam is violant because Qur'an didn't criticised Abraham's actions?" Since that was a topic of our discussion. "Is Islam violant?" And it's certanly doesn't mean that muslim can go around destroying everything that doesn't belongs to him. Because Qur'an doesn't teaches that way. And the reason why people got annoyed with Islam is because Media made Islam a synonym of terrorism, and because of sites where it's said that terrorists that bombed World trade center are "good" muslims. Remember that site? I think i already told you why it is bs.
Sam its just too much effort trying to explain things to you.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Sam its just too much effort trying to explain things to you.
Well, this is an important issue that needs to be worked out.
Here, in the US, our government, and many of my people, demonize terrorists as they did communists. Bush, in someways, is restarting a cold war. America is obsessed with this US-THEM mentality that destroyed our nation in the Cold War.
Hell, if we can't even figure out how to talk to eachother, how are we gonna be able to work this out on a global level.