yes it is funny how Elizabeth is better at going head to head with jack then Will is....gosh, they are so right for each other. Jack needs that challenge...and she needs the challenges Jack gives her...Will is just too predictable for her....but even if that does change in 3...I still don't see Will as being the man for her....she and Jack are just so drawn to each other.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
Keira made a great comment in an interview where she said Elizabeth's purpose in going to find Will was rescuing him--- even when she didnt know where he was--- because she didnt think Will could handle himself around Jack Sparrow or in the mission he had set out to do... hahaha, i think thats super funny. Just that Elizabeth seems so adept at "handling" Jack, finding her way around the caribbean, protecting herself, saving herself, manipulating those around her... and Will is still so innocent and naive almost. but i reckon that'll go in 3. hehehe.
HA HA thats really funny..thats totally why Will refuses to help Jack.."I MUST SAVE HER! to make her daddy and her proud, I can do it!"
What makes me laugh is the fact that she cant handle herself around Jack either once she is placed with him..she sets off with a confidence..she's a pirate anyway at heart so thats the ordinary world..but when it comes to being with Jack..all alone with Jack..it becomes the special world..and who ever said a while back that she is really relieved to see Will when she found him on the beach are telling the truth..she's really been feeling like a fish out of water with all of these new emotions rising for Jack..all the people telling her she should be with Jack..all her denial and fear...she's like:
"WILL! my ordinary world! take me away from this scary special world with the ever more attractive looking Jack!!..see Jack I'm happy now!" (although I'm not sure Jack spots that he's more concerned abotu where Davy is at that moment)
Yes she's very drawn to Jack..but she's still at stage number 1 through out much of the movie until Jack comes back for her...
It explains why the compass is pointing at Jack one moment and then it points at the means to "save Will"..its just what was happening to Jack whilst hew as at stage 1 with his compass..pointing to Liz and then the furthest away from her..Liz was just stuck on it forever though lol until Jack basically came back and proved to her that he can be hers..here she has thr choice to be with him or not..and because we have seen all the fear and denal..we see it again in this last scene when she moves to stage 3. "refuses the call"
she can handle herself with the pirate side of the situation I agree(ordinary world)..thats not what scares her..its just the emotional side that she has problems with..this is where she feels like a fish out of water thats the special world she is placed into: gaining feelings for Jack. She's starting to realize she has feelings for him when ever those feelings get called into question she shows fear and denial..and then when she is thrown into the special world (Jack proves he can be with her and that he needs her in his life) She refuses it because she is afraid..at the moment anyway
IMO her elixir is basically excepting to love and be there for the man who needs her in his life the very most..she's well on her way by the time movie 2 ends..but I'm not sure its love yet...thats what we have movie 3 for
hmmmm as much as i want liz and jack, i still think liz and will are going to end up together. thats just me. i love all these theories, and i think they are dead on, but in interviews the writers/directors are constantly going on about how Will is becoming more and more of a pirate-- and will turn full pirate by movie 3--- and not the bad kind of pirate, but the good kind of pirate. they arent going to end Will as a bad guy. its just not going to happen.
its interesting when Will shows up on the beach, and Liz runs over there and kisses him, they really take full advantage of the love square. they pan from Liz and will, to norri, to jack... showing each man's face... like, the reactions of the two other love-interests... (even though norri seems pretty out of the picture, he still likes lizzie... doesnt he?)
Liz and Will wont end up together..not when you look and study where each character emotionally is with the narritive.....by the time movie 2 closes each character has emotionally shifted..and they have accepted the first threshold in their TRUE adventure..With Liz it cant be Will..because she had him back with her before she even accepted the first threshold in her adventure. she had him with her before she even refused the call to her true adventure/elixir.
With Tia..she does 2 things when she meets each ctaracter..firstly she appears to be helping them in persuit of the false elixir..but she really gives them the means to take the first threshold and gain the real one. By the time Liz gets there to meet her two things are different this time compared with when Will and Jack met her..1) Liz has her false elixir with her..she's no longer looking for it 2) Its the end of the movie so they had to rush it along before it closed...Tia gives her the chance to stick with the false elixir(ordinary world)..but she refuses..she willingly choses to accept the first threshold(special world = Jack)
Yes Will becoming a pirate..but its not for Liz its for himself/true elixir..its to save his dad..thats the only reason why he turns like that..we get that at the end of movie 2..he starts to be all selfish etc like a pirate when it comes to saving his dad...he's lying to liz about why he's really going to get Jack back..he could care less about her feelings or Jacks because he's going to remove him the second he finds him...all he cares about are his own feelings and what he wants most in this world (father)..yes he's a pirate all right...just like Jack was in movie 1 when all he cared about was his pearl most in the world and threw peoples feelings around whilst trying to get it..and Liz didnt like that kind of Jack at first..she basically only got to a stage of liking him as a friend..she's falling for the the new Jack, the one who is starting to showing care for her feelings above his own selfish needs/wants ..Liz wont love the new kind of Will if he's turning into that kind of pirate...Will is turning into the kind of man Jack used to be..maybe a bit darker..I think Will is going to go to some ptrtty horrible lengths to gain what he wants most in this world (father)
Also what I notice with the love triangle..they are all holding their swords in the shape of a triangle..and its only Jack's one that is pointing straight at her through Will.
eh, im not going to argue with you cause you know i want liz and jack a ton. i still dont think its gonna happen though. and i dont think Will is gonna end bad. but i dont want to argue with you! 🙂
i love the swordfight b/w the 3 of them. its SOOOOO brilliant how, when there are tons of villians chasing them, they manage to get their three main dudes in a swordfight we ALL know is about liz. 😄
katelovespirate T&T have said that he is going to become darker..and Jack was never really dark at all..
Also Tia doesnt just say he has a touch of destiny about him after talking about how much a woman is going to vex(anger) him..if he's going to do something heroic for her in the future...its a really gloomy and horrible kind of feel to his future..
he wont be the ultimate villain..but you cant have 2 really noble hero's in a story...there is no place for 2 major noble heros..Jack is the main one now...he's already "elevated to the rank of a god"(apotheosis = godlike shot of him) and it was all very noble
and I have seen it many times in movies where the guy is about to get to apotheosis...and the apotheosis is not a good one because by the time it comes along..thier selfish desire takes over and they become almost inhuman to how they once were. "NO! the ring is mine!" - frodo is probably the most famous..they do redeem themselves though 😄 because Apotheosis is not the final step in their journey..so Will wont end bad you are probably right there..I think will needs this kind of thing..he needs to learn to accept being selfish but he needs to learn to control it..he is very much afraid to even shw any sign of selfishness
I coul be completley wrong but it seems as if Will is heading for that kind of apotheosis...which is only stage 8 out of 12
EDIT - yeah I agree with you!! the chest/heart resembles Liz. IMO..O love that fight they have..and how Jack just sneaks away and stels the key
This should cheer us up LMAO
http://forums.keeptothecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=6182
71% want Jack/Liz
29% want Will/Liz
215 votes go to Jack/Liz
87 to Will Liz.
pretty twice the amount(an a little bit more) of people want Jack Liz instead of Will/ Liz😄
because Jack Liz has deliberately been made far more interesting than Will/Liz ever was.
kate - you were always so positive with us..now it seems you have lost the faith...or are you like me...you secretly hope it will come true the Jackand Liz thing..but are scared to get your hopes up because of the interviews, articles and the WILL arguments on KTTC...and because it's Disney and because Disney continues to talk like it's Will and Liz and their adventures with Captain Jack Sparrow...it makes Jack sound so...backgroundish...and we all know that's not true..Jack is at the center of this story...everything that happens in these two movies are basically directly and indirectly connected to jack Sparrow....in fact, their lives...norrington, will, liz - none of their lives have been the same since that fateful day when Jack sailed into Port Royal
You've got me totally... that's it. I am secretly hopefull but VERY afraid to get my hopes up.
and i AM actually quite serious when i say i will enjoy it either way.
and yes... the whole... "liz and will and their adventures with captn jack"... it DOES seem to continue that way--- though i tend to see it more as Capt Jack in front, and will and liz sort of the background love story they had to stick in... though they are meant to have increasingly big roles, they still continue to talk about them as tied characters, ya know?
i think we all went a bit nuts right when the film came out... and possibly over-exaggerated things... and i just want to make sure we are looking at this objectively, and not making assumptions that arent spelled out in the film, if that makes sense. cause i love all these theories and i love that everyone is so confident, but i want to make sure we are being confident for a reason. this sometimes prompts me to bring up valid points about liz and will... even though i am DEFINATELY on the jack and liz side of things.
sigh.... i need some chocolate.
movie 1 was that Jack at the front Will/Liz background story..they cant keep doing that really..Jack is the main character...and the main character needs to get the girl..also people get bored if he's always the one who doesnt learn a thing...thats why people loved movie 2..because he changed by the end of it for a woman.
Its as if they wanted badly to go with a Jack/Liz thing to start with cuz the main character usuaally does get the girl.but he's a big risk and they had to make it will/Liz.
Sure not every main hero gets the girl but ones like Jack do..I mean sure Harry potter and frodo dont get the girl..but their character arc is different to Jack..Jack's problem is being brave for someone else and he's afraid to accept love in his life..he's always willing to get rid of a burden if its on his shoulders..but accepting love is something he is terrified of (well not anymore lol)..and its ALWAYS those kinds of characters who get the girl as a reward..
Well my main..MAIN thing here as a film studies student is the hero's 12 steps..this is in no way looking too deeply into messages that aren't there because its pretty much every story of a hero that does this books/movies/plays..its just the way they go..its the most universally successful way to tell a story of a hero and it has been since the dawn of man 😂
and I doubt PotC would mess that pattern of events up because the general public don't like familiar patterns in movies being messed up..we go to a movie..and it has to follow a pattern that we are familiar with because if it doesn't that film is ALWAYS a flop (human nature to fear/dislike the unknown)...I learned this in film studies..especially block busters..they NEVER risk screwing up the pattern of events because they are designed to make money...The movies that dont follow the pattern when its a story about a hero are the art house movies etc..and they always flop..independant movies tend to flop too..
What officially makes it point to Jack/Liz IS what Tia the mentor helps jack to do to gain the elixir..and he does gain it. He knows he has her and by the end of the movie..HE is her elixir she is in pusuit of so it fits together nicely before it closes. So she should be the one he returns home with..the Elixir is Liz...thats the most important thing..that Jar of dirt came into play when he was at step 7 "Approach to the inmost cave"..its him preparing to face it..and if it was to help him to face Davy then HECK the mentor just totally stabbed him in the back when offering help for what is most important to him..that NEVER happens in stories like this...it was to help him take LIZ as an elixir(obligation in his life)
The JoD came in to play for Jack whilst he was at step 7 JUST like tia is helping will again now that he is at step 7..in gaining his father.
THANK U LOVELY ONE!!! Ppl are getting so damn stressed geehs come on!! we are so kicking ass. i try to cheer up but ppl just step on me and try to be so damn negative loool. but thanx to lovely one at least ppl get a lil more calm. IAM TRING SO DAMN HARD!! To control ppl around here!!!!
ITs all there all the patterns are all there. u just have to look for them. u have to see things in a different way. the first bad news we get we are all crumbled and crap nooooo theres always a way.
sry i know i should not give lectures that was stupid of me. but hey im getting stressed too by all u ppl lol.
Chiki I don't mean to be negative...but I'm a bit like Kate...I don't want to get my hopes up just to have them squashed...plus this is the therapy thread where we can talk about what's bothering us, right????
LovelyOne...the main character doesn't always get the girl...just stating a fact..not meant to be argumentative...Luke Skywalker was the MAIN character in the Star Wars trilogy and he didn't get the girl...the love story between Lia and Han was in the background....but on the other hand, Jack is a whole different character from Luke...Luke was honorable, brave, strong...alot like Will....I find Will to be very honorable and brave...but I still think he is Bloody Stupid...because he refuses to trust Jack and he always screwed up Jack's plans...but, he is alot braver and stronger in DMC ....
But beleive me girls...if it were up to me and I could play magic tricks with Ted and Terry...I would have all kinds of ways for them to put Jack and Liz together and still have a satisfactory ending for Will....
But when you watch interviews, trailers, etc.....they all refer to it as Jack Sparrow and his adventure with Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann...they keep pairing those two together like they are one in the same...and it just makes me so mad....cuz...I don't think Will and Liz suit each other at all..and then watching the POTC 1 commentary earlier today...i didn't like one bit how Gore and Johnny kept refering to what a beautiful couple Keira and Orlando make...and how Gore was so satisfied with their interactions with each other...etc....ughhhh...and Johnny constantly refering to them as Great Kids....
trailers intend to do that u know. they try to put some things that tease u. thats why its called teaser trailer like for the 2nd movie. showed alot of liz/will scenes. but once u get into the movie its very different.
orlando and keira may look like a good couple but i doubt they are talking as in characters. that necessarily means the movie is gonna end up with will/liz.
think about it..ppl want jack liz EVERYONE wants jack/liz. it definitley made it big at the box office. u think disney would be dumb and ted/terry would be retarded enough to change everything?!?!?!?!? and risk going the ratings down?!?!? nu uh..dont think so...too much money involve.
iam positive they are gonna give us what we want. they certain wouldnt and shouldnt waste paper and ink on scripts with jack/liz then suddenly end it with will/liz. i very much doubt so
I have to agree with lovethemtigers and kate cause I don't wanna get my hopes high and have them squashed I rather keep them down and then have them boosted up with something I didn't expect..and I'm not argoiung either I thing the point Lovelyone made was true I really believe it's liz/jack all the way but what worries me is that the main character really doesn't always get the girl example😖tarwars, harry potter,pocohantus...but I point that comforts me alot is that is that inthose stories the main character never wanted the girl THAT badly wheres if jack REALLY wants liz(we know he does) he's going to be with her. cause only once in the history of these films has jack not gotten what he wants(not being able to getaway from the beastie) and even then he's happy cause he got something instead of it(lizzie!!!). he got what ever he wanted:the pearl,his crew,a kiss,the heart(although he lost it again), getting saved from being hanged, lizzie's trust, rum!!! he sets out to get what he wants he doesn't stop until he gets it..in the end he does so if we want to stick to the character...he'll get liz