Originally posted by Goddess KaliResearch. Its not hard. I also have some medical background and a lot of background in nerves and pain centers as the nervous system is a large part of psychology. Like I said, the ulnar nerve is perhaps the most pain sensitive nerve in the body. Eaten alive might be worse, depends on how it's done.
How would you know ? 😬Being eaten alive sounds worse than crucifixion to me
Originally posted by FeceManI know but still, you can't accept the first story told.
For one thing, I never said it wasn't impossible to survive crucifixion. For a second, do you realize just how much reaching you did? The stone "could have worn away"? That's...that's not a valid argument.
Originally posted by FeceManSo did the Spanish Armarda.
Crucifixion is pretty bad. I wouldn't be able to tell if it's worse than being skinned alive, but the Romans had it down to an art.
Jesus: The Resurrection
The Christian faith is faith in Christ, its value or worth is not in the one believing, but in the one believed-not in the one trusting, but in the one trusted.
In 56 A.D. Paul wrote that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive (1 Corinthians 15:6). It passes the bounds of credibility that the early Christians could have manufactured such a tale and then preached it among those who might easily have refuted it simply by producing the body of Jesus.
The disciples had nothing to gain by lying and starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility, and martyr’s deaths. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preaching was a lie. The disciples were not fools and Paul was a cool-headed intellectual of the first rank. There would have been several opportunities over the three to four decades of ministry to reconsider and renounce the lie.
Without the belief in the resurrection the Christian faith could not have come into being. The disciples would have remained crushed and defeated men. Even had they continued to remember Jesus as their beloved teacher, his crucifixion would have forever silenced any hopes of his being the Messiah. The cross would have remained the sade and shameful end of this career. The origin of Christianity therefore hinges on the belief of the early disciples that God had raised Jesus from the dead.
Had the crucifixion of Jesus ended his disciples’ experience of him, it is hard to see how the Christian church could have come into existence. That church was founded on the faith in the Messiahship of Jesus. A crucified Messiah was no Messiah at all.
When therefore the disciples began to preach the resurrection in Jerusalem and people responded, and when religious authorities stood helplessly by, the tomb must have been empty. The simple fact that the Christian fellowship, founded on belief in Jesus’ resurrection, came into existence and flourished in the very city where he was executed and buried is powerful evidence for the historicity of the empty tomb.
Critics sometimes charge, “Events like the resurrection did not happen. They were inserted to elevate Jesus to the status of a divine figure, though, if he lived at all, he was no more than a mere mortal.”
The writers of the New Testament either wrote as eyewitnesses of the events they described or they recorded eyewitness firsthand accounts of these events. Their personal attachment to the events are clear from statements they made such as the following:
“We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16 NIV)
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:1-3 NIV)
“Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus...” (Luke 1:1-3 NIV)
“In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.” (Acts 1:1-3 NIV)
“After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.” (1 Corinthians 15:6-8 NIV)
“Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:30-31 NIV)
“We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.” (Acts 10:39-42 NIV)
“To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed...” (1 Peter 5:1 NIV)
“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.” (Acts 2:22 NIV)
“At this point Festus interrupted Paul's defense. ‘You are out of your mind, Paul!’ he shouted. ‘Your great learning is driving you insane.’ ‘I am not insane, most excellent Festus,’ Paul replied. ‘What I am saying is true and reasonable. The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner. King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.’ Then Agrippa said to Paul, ‘Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?’” (Acts 26:24-28 NIV)
The writers of the New Testament also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The writers not only said, “Look we saw this,” or “We heard that,” but they turned the tables around and right in front of thier most adverse critics said, “You also know about these things. You saw them; you yourselves know about it.” One had better be careful when he says to his opposition, “You know this also,” because if he is not right about the details, his critics will gladly and quickly expose his error. But this is exactly what the apostles did, and their critics could not refute them.
The resurrection of Jesus is the most fantastic event Christianity has ever asked the world to take seriously. If it isn’t true, all of the claims of Jesus are irrelevant. If it is true, it substantiates all of Jesus’ claims, and no other event in history has more significance.
As you read the accounts of the resurrection, notice that skeptics were everywhere. Jesus’ disciples-especialy Thomas-didn’t expect to see him. Jesus’ enemies didn’t want to see him, and offered alternate-though easily refuted-explanations for the empty tomb.
Let’s look at two of those explanations:
1) Jesus’ resurrection was just wishful thinking on part of his disciples. They developed this myth to substantiate their claims.
Some modern critics speculate that the resurrection appearances were the disciples’ hallucinations, which occured because they worked themselves into a hysteria hoping that Jesus would come back from the dead. But that explanation doesn’t take into account the disciples’ overall misunderstanding of Jesus’ resurrection predictions (John 16:17-18).
After Jesus’ death, the disciples didn’t sit in anticipation of the resurrection. When Jesus appeared to most of them, they were hiding out in fear of the authorities (verses 19-20), not boldly proclaiming that their leader would return from the dead. Basically, the disciples didn’t “get it” until after the fact. So lack of belief-not hysteria fantasizing-emerges as thier state of mind before the resurrection.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s say the disciples hallucinated. To refute this claim, their critics would only have to go to the tomb and show everyone the body. The tomb, however, was empty. (Note: All of the world’s religions have places of honor commemorating their dead founders. Only Christianity has an empty tomb.) Given the uncontested fact of a bodiless grave, another explanation surfaced.
2) Jesus’ resurrection was an elaborate hoax. While the gaurds slept, the disciples came and stole the body, then told everyone that their leader was alive. (Matthew 28:11-15.)
Many problems arise with this theory. For starters, the Jewish leaders of the day had taken great pains to ensure that the tomb could not be robbed (Matthew 27:62-66). Pilate himself placed these guards on special duty. And even if they had dozed off, how could the gaurds have known who robbed the romb? They were supposedly sleeping!
This argument ignores the disciples’ fear of being caught and prosecuted by the Jewish leaders of the day. Verse 19 shows them all locked in a room together, hidden away in fear. These men weren’t about to leave the building, let alone go up against armed guards to steal a body.
And what else but Jesus’ resurrection could have transformed these disciples from timid cowards to bold advocates, preaching that Jesus was alive in the very city in which his murderers still had power? (Acts 2:22-47.) Eventually, almost all of these men died martyr’s deaths. Throughout human history, men have willingly died supporting a belief as truth; none have died supporting a lie!
Secular Authorities on Jesus' Historicity:
(By secular I mean "pagan" - non-Christian, non-Jewish, and generally anti-Christian. Many ancient secular writers mention Jesus and the movement He birthed. The fact that they are usually antagonistic to Christianity makes them especially good witnesses, since they have nothing to gain by admitting the historicity of the events surrounding a religious leader and His following, which they disdain.)
1) Cornelius Tacitus
2) Lucian of Samosata
3) Suetonius
4) Pliny the Younger
5) Thallus
6) Phlegon
7) Mara Bar-Serapion
Jewish References to Jesus' historicity:
1) The Babylonian Tulmud
Christian Sources for Jesus' Historicity (Post-Apostolic Writers):
1) Clement of Rome
2) Ignatiius
3) Quadratus
4) The Epistle of Barnabas
5) Aristides
6) Justin Martyr
7) Hegesippus
Additional Sources for Christianity:
1) Trajan
2) Macrobius
3) Hadrian
4) Antoninus Pius
5) Marcus Aurelius
6) Juvenal
7) Seneca
8) Hierocles
Originally posted by ushomefreeJust pick a few and quote what they said about the resurrection from the dead as an eyewitness account. I'd like to read it. 🙂
Secular Authorities on Jesus' Historicity:(By secular I mean "pagan" - non-Christian, non-Jewish, and generally anti-Christian. Many ancient secular writers mention Jesus and the movement He birthed. The fact that they are usually antagonistic to Christianity makes them especially good witnesses, since they have nothing to gain by admitting the historicity of the events surrounding a religious leader and His following, which they disdain.)
1) Cornelius Tacitus
2) Lucian of Samosata
3) Suetonius
4) Pliny the Younger
5) Thallus
6) Phlegon
7) Mara Bar-Serapion
Jewish References to Jesus' historicity:
1) The Babylonian Tulmud
Christian Sources for Jesus' Historicity (Post-Apostolic Writers):
1) Clement of Rome
2) Ignatiius
3) Quadratus
4) The Epistle of Barnabas
5) Aristides
6) Justin Martyr
7) Hegesippus
Additional Sources for Christianity:
1) Trajan
2) Macrobius
3) Hadrian
4) Antoninus Pius
5) Marcus Aurelius
6) Juvenal
7) Seneca
8) Hierocles
Originally posted by ushomefree
How about you do the research; you have all the answers to life anyway, right?
Because it's not his job to do so. You're the one making a claim, so back it up. Surely you know...otherwise you wouldn't have spoken in the first place.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Not impossible. A spontaneous rejuvenation of
God created life, not evolution.
"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:14, 20-22 NIV)