Is this what you're talking about?
Originally posted by Advent
Proof that Exar developed a technique as a spirit? It's unlikely considering he learned so much from Sadow (as he apparently has learned "everything"😉, and that's more than likely where he developed the technique from.
Because I was asking him for proof that he developed the techniques he used on Luke Skywalker as a spirit, since that seemed to be what he was implying by saying "or the same technique".
Though, I'm not sure if that's what you're even talking about consider I stated that he learned "everything" from Sadow (or majority), and that it was where the technique came from. So, it's either confusion or misunderstanding on your part, or a different quote.
Originally posted by Advent
Except this has nothing to do with the fact that Exar did this without uses of the amulet, which of course, was the entire point. Taking my position about that feat specifically, and twisting it around will do you no good.And could he control them anyways? Not that it matters, nor loses "impact" (because the casual ease of which Kun does this suggests that it's far from the upper limit of this ability).
Right:
So as it would seem Odan wasn't useless, and Memit Nadill even gives his praise, and it's obvious that his Battle Meditation was needed to win the battle. So, for you to downplay him is ridiculous. Good thing, though, that I have the actual source material and logic to prove that assertion wrong.
Perhaps, Odan as a young Jedi Knight may have been useless (he wasn't), but to assume Odan Urr after a thousand year is?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Anakin in TPM useless? Didn't he grow more powerful? Why yes, he did. Odan stripped Ancient Sith of the Force after the events of his younger days, he fully mastered his Battle meditation, and spent a great deal of time reading upon the Force. He also was good enough to teach Nomi both of those techniques. To say that Odan is shown as "useless" is ridiculous, because you're talking about Odan Urr...oh say, 985 years ago?
By this logic, Mace Windu must suck because he was beaten by Dooku. But then you take into account, he plainly improved, and there you go. Odan Urr obviously improved, and had more than ample time to do such. A young, inexperienced Jedi Knight < A wise, and proficient Jedi Master.
Right, he's there to kill Aleema, but for some reason or another leaves her alive. Because, as you see on the following page:She's still there! So, killing her must not have been his top priority. And I could say that Yoda must've used his most devastating attack on Sidious in the office, because, after all, he was there to kill him.
Is Kun using the amulet to push back Sylvar or Odan Urr simply because he uses the same hand? I was always under the impression if you were right or left handed - for the most part - you would usually demonstrate your powers with that hand, so long as it was free.
The reasons that would actually lead one to believe that it wasn't an amulet blast is pretty simple:1.) The apparent form the blast took looked similar in design as the blast Aleema demonstrated one panel prior, it radically differs from the amulet blasts we see earlier on by that it's doesn't look like Goku's Kamehahahahahaha blast, or whatever (by that it's squiggly lines, and red).
2.) If you will, note his dialogue:"Pretender! Nadd has only taught you the beginnings of Sith power, woman -- but I have learned everything!"
This seems to indicate that he was using the same attack except with more power, so as to show Aleema that what he has learned of Sith magic topples Aleema's own. She also calls him a "pretender", and it would make sense to even prove that he wasn't by using the same type of attack back at Aleema.
3.) The blast didn't even so much as put a burn on Aleema's dress, even if it was toned down - there isn't even a little singe. He was actually mad, as you can obviously tell by his dialogue to Aleema when she claimed him to be a "pretender". No burns? Different design? Dialogue? I'd say it was hardly an amulet blast.
But, of course, the onus is on you to prove that it was in fact an amulet blast.
Except there is a difference between virtually being able to block something, and "everything" you know and have learned being virtually ineffective."...Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him-but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly."
And it also mentions previously that he was seeking any defensive tactic to work. This would imply that he had no defense for it.
Except Nadd is able to affect the living as well, in a way that would kill them, and his power is still diminished. What the hell are you even talking about?
When has Luke's Emerald Lightning that you've always paraded around use on any strong and capable Force user? Never? Just because it wasn't shown on a "Jedi of Mace's caliber" doesn't mean it's going to be ineffective in some way on someone who's never even heard of it.
What, pray tell, does Mace have up his sleeve that would be able to block monstrous blasts of energy that tear through solid material with enough force of a bomb? I'd say nothing, considering he had a hard enough time blocking Palpatine's lightning, which by all accounts, is hardly on the same level as an amulet blast in that it can't leave giant, gaping holes in beasts, and tear through rock like a bomb.
I'd be inclined to disagree for the fact that they fought Ancient Sith, so it would only be likely to assume that they, in fact, knew about it and defended against it as it was a primary Sith form of attack, and the fact that the Ancient Sith were greater in number as a whole during that time than any other era. The Ancient Sith were heavy on Sith magic and alchemy, later Sith and later eras - specifically the PT era - were [b]not prepared for any of that, and the PT hadn't even seen Sith in a milennia. Speaking of such, the Sith that arrived were only Darth Maul and Darth Tyranus, both of which have never been indicated to use Sith magic, nor train with it.
Probably when they were battling them.Because somehow Exar Kun was more powerful as a spirit, despite being half mad, and locked away for 4,000 years and Kyp "Greenhorn" Durron is also on par with Kun when being combined with his spirit. Despite the obvious that he was only like, 16 years old and very inexperienced and dramatically less in power than Exar Kun.
Proof that Exar developed a technique as a spirit? It's unlikely considering he learned so much from Sadow (as he apparently has learned "everything"😉, and that's more than likely where he developed the technique from.
When has Mace Windu ever done this? Or even shown the capability to? Oh? Never? And there's also the fact that AT-AT blasts have a completely different property than a Force-based attack that uses energy. I would ask, if Mace is such an uber defending god, why he had such trouble blocking Sidious' lightning? Which, as I've already said, is far less destructive in power, and by apparent looks in ROTS, is weaker than Kun's amulet blast, which does double with each pulse of anger, and is shown to seem instantaneous, by the fact that as soon as it was equiped, he started blasting, and continued to do such every single panel.
Until Kun uses that on a force sensitive Jedi Master and it helped the Ancients, maybe it's time to stop relying on the amulet
Until you take into account that this is completely irrelevant to what I'm arguing about the Force. Are Vaapad and a lightsaber relevant to getting blasted through the chest with an amulet blast? Are they relevant to being pwned with Sith magic? Mainly, though, are they relevant to the Force?
He's never heard of Vaapad, BFD. Again, Force power does not equal Vaapad, and Shatterpoint wasn't of much use when he got injured by the partially trained Kar Vastor, did it? Plus, his Shatterpoint didn't help much when he was having an immense amount of trouble holding down Sidious' lightning.
I'll tell that to the soldiers that were saved by Odan's meditation.
But, nice way to completely blatantly downplay a character, Lightsnake. If this is what I can expect from you, then consider this debate over. Here's what you're doing, except turned to fit my views:
No one from the TOTJ era was "up to par" with Kun, save for Ulic, who would always still lose though on paper.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Moreover, it took Kun six months to learn all this Sith magicIrrelevant.
Yes, because it's totally likely that Mace Windu developed some defense for Sith magic. Do prove this. One of the Sith was in the closet, the others? Maul was no Force god, and Dooku didn't know Sith magic. What reasons would Mace want to learn to defend against Sith magic when it hadn't been used or seen for probably a milennia by the majority of the Jedi.
As a whole, though, I've no issues coneding Exar has the edge in the force, but loses in a flat out saber fight.
Path of destruction severely reduced Exar's status.
and concrete proof that path of destruction reduced exars status?
because revan has force storm lightning? because bane used a blast to shake down a temple? or what? compared to kun potentially freezing millions if not then thousands of senators in coruscant? the fact kun was able to drain the massasi to extinction?
seriously alot of people hate exar kun.
and back to this match, mace would reflect kuns own anger back at him and thus with shatterpoint, kun goes down, i wouldnt really say kun would win cuz i know nothing of his saber skills, about the blurs, i assumed he used it to distract his opponents, common sense to ask why is he shaking his lightsaber and not charging like maul in tpm and also the fact the DS source book stated exar kun mastered lightning, and when you master lightning you go to its highest level which is aparantly the force storm lightning, still exar has never demonstrated even lightning
the reason you hate kun lightsnake is problably because the thread made in febuary and you got your ass handed to you, very very very hard
and ls prove the blast sent to aleema is the amulet? prove it, show an source where it said" exar let a blast to aleema", so? if lightning or drain came out from the same hand does it mean its from the amulet?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It is pretty obvious that Kun used the same attack on Aleema that she tried on him. It was not an amulet blast
Originally posted by Advent
Yes, this would seem absolutely correct, except:You were saying? Freezing possibly near millions (hundreds of thousands at the [b]very
least) of sentient beings, and controlling them as well. Owning the thousand year old Jedi Master, Odan Urr, who was proficient in the Force, which is noted by his dialogue that he stripped Ancient Sith, he's also proficient in Battle meditation, and has taught the Force stripping technique to Vodo and Nomi both. He also used Sith magic on Aleema, something Mace has never even seen. We also know he possesses the power of Force lightning, as well.[/B]
I have to lol on this one.
[/QUOTE] The reason for that is because you are basing this off what? The fact that Mace has never been shown to even possess an ability that could possibly block a Sith amulet that produces blasts near instantaneously, and destroys temple rock, Sith wyrms, and tears through Massassi, which are Force users (as are Cay and Nomi, whom were affected by Ulic's weak rays of energy compared to Kun's monstrous blasts)?[/QUOTE]
Mace has Vaapad and shatterpoint which is much faster than a blast. You haven't read Shatterpoint have you?
[/QUOTE]
Or was it that it's even less of a chance for him blocking it when you consider that he's never even seen this. Likewise, when has he even seen Sith magic (mainly what Kun used on Aleema) at work?
In means of a fight, to think that Mace Windu suddenly has something up his sleeve is ridiculous when post-DE Luke didn't. Exar's apparent techniques were enough to overcome DE Luke, even to the point were everything he tried and learned had become useless. As well, the amulet blasts - as I've pointed out - tear through solid materials like they were nothing, they are also gargantuan in size and obviously tremendous in strength. What technique does Mace have that will block this when he had trouble even deflecting Force lightning? [/QUOTE]
He doesn't need to block when he can dodge.
[/QUOTE]
And in the fight, Kun has access to Sith magic, of which Mace Windu has more than likely never even witnessed, let alone defended against or developed a defense. This would indicate that the advantage is Exar's in the Force. There's also the fact he was able to top Odan Urr in the Force, and own him with something as simple as a wave of the hand, who as mentioned, stripped Ancient Sith for breakfast. [/QUOTE]
Anything you mentioned was all done with the amulet. There's no proof of Kun doing anything significant without the amulet.
number 1, without the amulet kun has frozen millions of senators in coruscant if not hundreds of thousands at least,
secondly the blast are instant and can cause massive damage, kun killed the spirit of freedon nadd really quickly by shoving his hand into nadd.
thirdly the amulet has no limits, its power and blast are instant and its power doubles with every pulse of anger and thus you cant dodge a full scale blast due to its size and power
number 4, dont forget about exars mastery of lightning as the Dark side soucr book claims he has which apparantly is the highest level of lightning, force storm lightning which sidious also has mastered by DE
number 5, mace cant defend against a force drain which exar used to drain the whole planet of yavin 4, not that i know of that mace has any defence to
number 6, this is off topic, this is LIGHTSABER match, so? kun gets defeated due to shatterpoint, kun cannot use the force, no drain no lightning no amulet, mace beats exar kun, END OF STORY
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
you proved nothing, we all read the comics dumbass.
Originally posted by ESB Vader
[B]number 1, without the amulet kun has frozen millions of senators in coruscant if not hundreds of thousands at least,
secondly the blast are instant and can cause massive damage, kun killed the spirit of freedon nadd really quickly by shoving his hand into nadd.
thirdly the amulet has no limits, its power and blast are instant and its power doubles with every pulse of anger and thus you cant dodge a full scale blast due to its size and power
number 4, dont forget about exars mastery of lightning as the Dark side soucr book claims he has which apparantly is the highest level of lightning, force storm lightning which sidious also has mastered by DE
number 5, mace cant defend against a force drain which exar used to drain the whole planet of yavin 4, not that i know of that mace has any defence to
Originally posted by Lightsnake
So could Joruus C'baoth
that?
so?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove they're instant and have no limits
[/B]
Originally posted by LightsnakeForce storm is just the KOTOR version of strong Force lightning, so? Exar knows force lightning, welcome to 'every Dark Lord ever'.
that? [/B]
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove it.
And Exar needed the massive obelisk to drain the massassi, ignoring that? [/B]
what is massive obelisk? maybe on a big scale but a 1 on 1 fight?
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kuntempleamuletuo5.jpg
"Just the next slide immediately after it clamps on, and Exar realizes what he can do - it's appears. Ta da! And anyways, you think it was anything but instant? I thought he was in a life or death situation, I doubt he'd be alive even after thirty seconds. That Sith Wyrm would've obliterated him" originaly from advent,
very true i must say, if it took even 5 seconds for the blast to come out , he would have been killed by the wyrm would he not?
lightsnake, what are you trying to prove here
the only alchemic structure exar built was the golden glode to drain the massassi CHILDREN
and prove to me about the obelisk exar used to drain the whole planet, FORCE DRAIN IS FORCE DRAIN
Asking me to prove a negative, logical fallacy. You are saying something, burden of proof is on you to prove it. and Exar immediately blasted the Sith Wyrm? Oh, so his saber magically appeared in between Vodo? It's a comic, meaning the time passing is not shown.
And in EE, Palpatine uses lightning to kill an officer...he uses something different against the Jedi...since Exar is weaker than Palpatine anyways, moot point.
And a massive obelish...maybe the massive spire Exar was chained to. Sith Power objects, remember?
Originally posted by Lightsnakeread my post again prehaps i just edited it just for you
Asking me to prove a negative, logical fallacy. You are saying something, burden of proof is on you to prove it. and Exar immediately blasted the Sith Wyrm? Oh, so his saber magically appeared in between Vodo? It's a comic, meaning the time passing is not shown.
Sith Power objects, remember?
Originally posted by Lightsnakea thread to reminf you exar is not weaker than palpatine http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=386748&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1
And in EE, Palpatine uses lightning to kill an officer...he uses something different against the Jedi...since Exar is weaker than Palpatine anyways, moot point.[/B]
Originally posted by Lightsnakeyes on a big scale, he doesnt need it on a 1v1 match just for a simple drain, so is nihilus using power objects? thus kreia? thus jaden? thus malak?And a massive obelish...maybe the massive spire Exar was chained to. Sith Power objects, remember? [/B]
Get your post right the first time
Exar's been brought down in power and just about every official source agrees Palpatine is the best. What's Exar got that Palpatine doesn't? Palp had a massive collection of Sith amulets, remember?
Now, prove Exar even knew drain. Using an obelisk in a ritual to drain things isn't the same as using Force drain yourself.
Nice misdirection and trying to get me to prove a negative, tsk tsk
