The U.S. Constitution Mentions Jesus Christ

Started by xmarksthespot35 pages

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So then explain to me why Ushgarak invariably interposes himself between me and another forum member but in favor of the other poster and never me? I mean off top he has come to Alliance's aid, yours, and Shakes.

Me: 0
Others: 3

You do the math. Your right moderators don't have to be unbiased and impartial, but it would be nice. Hey, I don't have to brush my teeth either, but it would be nice. If I was a moderator I would just instinctively know that I should--not that I must--but should show some equal treatment, just because. I treat all members the same, I don't have any favorites, but I think Ushgarak does. Hmmm...I wonder who they are?

Maybe... just maybe... just throwing this out there... the whole lack of "points on the scoreboard" thing is because of.. you know... the whole, you being nuts thing...

Here's some math:
Hypocritical + over-zealous + patronizing + religious crackpot + whose idea of debating is quoting the bible = you.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So then explain to me why Ushgarak invariably interposes himself between me and another forum member but in favor of the other poster and never me? I mean off top he has come to Alliance's aid, yours, and Shakes.

Me: 0
Others: 3

You do the math. Your right moderators don't have to be unbiased and impartial, but it would be nice. Hey, I don't have to brush my teeth either, but it would be nice. If I was a moderator I would just instinctively know that I should--not that I must--but should show some equal treatment, just because. I treat all members the same, I don't have any favorites, but I think Ushgarak does. Hmmm...I wonder who they are?

Just because he disagrees with you (like everybody else) doesn't mean he favours others who disagree with you. I mean, me and Urizen probably disagree with you more than anyone else, but Ush has never even talked to either of us.

The funny thing is JIA, you could actually try debunking the point he made derived from the point I was making that you chose to dismiss despite being valid instead of crying persecution (though Christians did like being persecuted, felt it got them to God faster.)

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
The funny thing is JIA, you could actually try debunking the point he made derived from the point I was making that you chose to dismiss despite being valid instead of crying persecution (though Christians did like being persecuted, felt it got them to God faster.)

What's that pal? What point that who made? And can you support what you believe about Christians wanting to die so that they could get to God faster?.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
...JFK = Christian. Use of "the year of our lord" or "Creator" in government declarations = not indicative or committal to the assumption God is inherently involved. As you have just admitted - the phrase "Act of God" does not signify religious belief or adherence. Likewise using "In the year of our lord" does not. Nor does creator necessarily....

I have not admitted anything, you are reading into my statements what is not there. Here is what I said:

If JFK had said Act of God in an contractual setting then you might have a valid argument--but the fact is, he did not so quit beating a dead horse (Poor horse I will give you a proper burial). You need a new, stronger, argument to base your opposing points of view on instead of this weak, gossamer, unconvincing one about contractual niceties.

I fail to see any admission in what I said. Now, JFK did not mention God in a contractual setting that is why I said that if he did that you might have a valid argument. Furthermore, neither JFK nor Thomas Jefferson mentioned God in a way that implied that God was some impersonal force as the phrase, "act of God," denotes. The fact that Creator, Almighty, and God are capitalized in their speech/document respectively are indicative of the fact that they mean the God of the Bible, and some arbitrary, subjective description of God. JFK and Thomas Jefferson both mentioned God in a manner that suggested that God is a Personal God Who has done certain things for His creation (i.e. endowing us with natural rights). The fact that Creator, Almighty, and God are capitalized are indicative of the fact that they mean the God of the Bible, and some arbitrary, subjective description of God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What's that pal? What point that who made? And can you support what you believe about Christians wanting to die so that they could get to God faster?.

A little thing could history? You know... history? Back when Christians embraced Roman persecution even when there was a way to avoid death? The fact Christian writers honored these people, called them saints because they died? The fact that when the Roman persecutions ended there were Christians dismayed at the idea of not dying for their cause so they became ascetic and lived the white death?

I have not admitted anything, you are reading into my statements what is not there. Here is what I said:

If JFK had said Act of God in an contractual setting then you might have a valid argument--but the fact is, he did not so quit beating a dead horse (Poor horse I will give you a proper burial). You need a new, stronger, argument to base your opposing points of view on instead of this weak, gossamer, unconvincing one about contractual niceties.

I don't know how I can say it any clearer. I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT JFK WHEN I MENTIONED CONTRACTUAL MENTIONS OF GOD.

UNDERSTAND? I was talking about the use of "The year of our Lord" and "Creator" in legal documents concerning the formation of the United States of America.

UNDERSTAND? UNDERSTAND it does you argument no good to purposely just keep reiterating the wrong interpretation of what I am saying.

NOTICE! Two different things.
NOTICE 1: JFK.
NOTICE 2: Documents that mention potentially religious things.

I fail to see any admission in what I said. Now, JFK did not mention God in a contractual setting that is why I said that if he did that you might have a valid argument. Furthermore, neither JFK nor Thomas Jefferson mentioned God in a way that implied that God was some impersonal force as the phrase, "act of God," denotes. The fact that Creator, Almighty, and God are capitalized in their speech/document respectively are indicative of the fact that they mean the God of the Bible, and some arbitrary, subjective description of God. JFK and Thomas Jefferson both mentioned God in a manner that suggested that God is a Personal God Who has done certain things for His creation (i.e. endowing us with natural rights). The fact that Creator, Almighty, and God are capitalized are indicative of the fact that they mean the God of the Bible, and some arbitrary, subjective description of God.

AS ABOVE - it is foolish to continue to mention JKF and contracts when that is not what I am saying.

IN a insurance policy the phrase is "Act of God" (or it used to be) - simple yes no answer JIA - does this signify religious belief or conformation disasters are sent by God?

NO! Just like "In the Year of our Lord" or "Creator" doesn't. They have religious links but are not binding or indicative or religious rules or belief. Stop saying I am saying this in regards to JFK...

I HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT EVERYONE KNOWS JFK WAS A RELIGIOUS MAN. IT ULTIMATELY IS IRRELEVANT.

Great men have believed in God (JFK) not so great men (Bush) - it means nothing, nor does it confirm your stance. Nor are they religious authorities. And there have been great Atheists and bad Atheists - does this mean something? No.

God's, you talk about beating a dead horse, yet in order for you to cling to some glimmer of hope you are right you have to purposely claim the same thing over and over and over based upon the misinterpretation of my post.

Simple - I didn't say JFK wasnt saying he believed it comes from God, nor that he'didn't believes in God. That in no way changes the point I made about the use of God, Creator or whatever in legal documents. ONCE AGAIN I POINT OUT - NOTICE THE TWO, YES TWO, DEBATE TOPICS THERE: NOT ONE, TWO. TWO SEPARATE ONES. COMBINING THEM JUST MAKES YOU APPEAR FOOLISH BECAUSE ANYONE ELSE CAN SEE THAT IS NOT WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.

So let's put it simply. What relevance has, or difference was made by, JFK's belief in God? Which was, incidentally, strongly Catholic, but that aside, why do you raise it? If it is to demonstate that great men believe in God, Samura is entitled to say not-so-great men do also. That is a fair retort to your point, There are plenty of equally fair retorts you could make to that retort, so why not do that rather than moan about the clarification I made?

There. Deal with that.

CORRECTION. I had made some errors in the first post.

I have not admitted anything, you are reading into my statements what is not there. Here is what I said:

"If JFK had said Act of God in an contractual setting then you might have a valid argument--but the fact is, he did not so quit beating a dead horse (Poor horse I will give you a proper burial). You need a new, stronger, argument to base your opposing points of view on instead of this weak, gossamer, unconvincing one about contractual niceties."

I fail to see any admission in what I said in the above quote. Now, JFK did not mention God in a contractual setting that is why I said that if he did that you might have a valid argument. Furthermore, neither JFK nor Thomas Jefferson mentioned God in a way that implied that God was some impersonal force as the phrase, "act of God," denotes. The fact that Creator, Almighty, and God are capitalized in their speech/document respectively are indicative of the fact that they mean the God of the Bible, and not some arbitrary, subjective description of God. JFK and Thomas Jefferson both mentioned God in a manner that suggested that God is a Personal God Who has done certain things for His creation (i.e. endowing us with natural rights).

Sigh.

You totally ignored my post above in order to post essentially the same thing again which I have made clear is based upon erronious interpretation of my posts on the subject.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Sigh.

You totally ignored my post above in order to post essentially the same thing again which I have made clear is based upon erronious interpretation of my posts on the subject.

My bad. I didn't even see it at the time that I noticed my error and re-posted.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Simple - I didn't say JFK wasnt saying he believed it comes from God, nor that he'didn't believes in God. That in no way changes the point I made about the use of God, Creator or whatever in legal documents. ONCE AGAIN I POINT OUT - NOTICE THE TWO, YES TWO, DEBATE TOPICS THERE: NOT ONE, TWO. TWO SEPARATE ONES. COMBINING THEM JUST MAKES YOU APPEAR FOOLISH BECAUSE ANYONE ELSE CAN SEE THAT IS NOT WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.

There. Deal with that.

You have totally missed the point. I did not say anything about JFK's belief in God. Here is what I said originally:

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Inaugural Address of John F. Kennedy

FRIDAY, JANUARY 20, 1961
Vice President Johnson, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Chief Justice, President Eisenhower, Vice President Nixon, President Truman, reverend clergy, fellow citizens, we observe today not a victory of party, but a celebration of freedom--symbolizing an end, as well as a beginning--signifying renewal, as well as change. For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forebears prescribed nearly a century and three quarters ago.

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe--the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.

John F. Kennedy admits that rights come from God (Jesus Christ).

That was all I wanted you to get out of this. I was not even talking about whether JFK believed in God or not, but simply that he admitted that our basic rights come from God. That's it, nothing more or less. This whole subject escalated from this simple fact to folks talking about JFK being Catholic, whether or not JFK believed in God, etc. But all I intended to convey was exactly what I wrote: JFK admits that our rights come from God.

A resounding "Who cares?".

JFK does not admit that our rights come from god.

He admits that that is what he, one person, believed.

That does not make it true; it was simply his belief and thus opinion.

Stating an opinion as though it were fact does not make it so.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A resounding "Who cares?".

knowing you as I do, it's likely me. But I would like someone to boil this debate down to its finer points. Because I'm lazy . WTF are you guys talking about?

JFK mentioned god somewhere. That's about it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
knowing you as I do, it's likely me. But I would like someone to boil this debate down to its finer points. Because I'm lazy . WTF are you guys talking about?

JIA: Constitution says 'Jesus' so it means something.
Everyone else: Not really.
JIA: Uh-huh.
Everyone else: No.

[This continues for a retarded period of time.]

JIA: JFK talked about Jesus.
Everyone else: What's your point?
Me: Why do I keep looking at this thread?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That was all I wanted you to get out of this. I was not even talking about whether JFK believed in God or not, but simply that he admitted that our basic rights come from God. That's it, nothing more or less. This whole subject escalated from this simple fact to folks talking about JFK being Catholic, whether or not JFK believed in God, etc. But all I intended to convey was exactly what I wrote: JFK admits that our rights come from God.
He doesn't admit it, he stated that he believed it

Originally posted by FeceMan
JIA: Constitution says 'Jesus' so it means something.
Everyone else: Not really.
JIA: Uh-huh.
Everyone else: No.

[This continues for a retarded period of time.]

JIA: JFK talked about Jesus.
Everyone else: What's your point?
Me: Why do I keep looking at this thread?

Dude, are you a follower of Jesus Christ? This is not the first time that you have done or said something to belittle me unprovoked. I will let the Lord deal with you.

Originally posted by FeceMan
JIA: Constitution says 'Jesus' so it means something.
Everyone else: Not really.
JIA: Uh-huh.
Everyone else: No.

[This continues for a retarded period of time.]

JIA: JFK talked about Jesus.
Everyone else: What's your point?
Me: Why do I keep looking at this thread?

thank You.

God, in respects to Jesus, is not mentiuoned anywhere in any legal document. Period. JIA, you and your Whob counterpart can suck my fat one.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Dude, are you a follower of Jesus Christ? This is not the first time that you have done or said something to belittle me unprovoked. I will let the Lord deal with you.

The difference is how dillusional you want to be, not what religion you follow.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
thank You.

...JIA, you and your Whob counterpart can suck my fat one....

Reported.

It was just the correct usage of the date...yes, our calendar is based on a mythological Zero Point...who cares? We could also say "ham" for BC and "piece of paper" for AD...that does not mean that we acknowledge the non-existant invisible man...just a phrase...like "God Bless You"...or "My Lord, Jesus is a dirty mother****er, eh?"

Bardock42, 15th of October 2006 piece of paper.