INCEST=worng or not

Originally posted by Stoic
I'd rather choke down a barrel of puke than sleep with a relative. Something inside of me just knows it's not normal. Well I think I'll toast to the next malformed generation that your seed produces.

not trying to defend incest...,i personally dont believe in it. However, just like most beliefs, how can you be sure that you dont believe in it because it was instilled or influenced by societies current moral standing? Would people of ancient Rome believed differently about incest if the majority believed it to be wrong?

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
not trying to defend incest...,i personally dont believe in it. However, just like most beliefs, how can you be sure that you dont believe in it because it was instilled or influenced by societies current moral standing? Would people of ancient Rome believed differently about incest if the majority believed it to be wrong?

The very fact that genetic abnormalities are more likely to occur between couples that share common genes is just one reason why it's wrong. When do people draw the line on what is wrong sexually? If you are unsure of whether or not this is wrong, do you also have trouble deciphering whether sleeping with animals is wrong as well? You do realize that beastiality and many other forms of deviant sex has been around for just about ever as well right? It doesn't make it right.

If you ever have a problem deciphering what is right and what is wrong sexually, just remember that we were placed here for many reasons, one of which was to procreate... Anything outside of those lines could easily be labeled a perversion. So my question to you is this, when did you begin to believe that a perversion, was right and good?

Can a million people be wrong? Absolutely, if they aren't right.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
All love is equal, IMO.

So why don't we all just run off into the woods, and pump a mule?

Originally posted by Stoic
The very fact that genetic abnormalities are more likely to occur between couples that share common genes is just one reason why it's wrong. When do people draw the line on what is wrong sexually? If you are unsure of whether or not this is wrong, do you also have trouble deciphering whether sleeping with animals is wrong as well? You do realize that beastiality and many other forms of deviant sex has been around for just about ever as well right? It doesn't make it right.

If you ever have a problem deciphering what is right and what is wrong sexually, just remember that we were placed here for many reasons, one of which was to procreate... Anything outside of those lines could easily be labeled a perversion. So my question to you is this, when did you begin to believe that a perversion, was right and good?

Can a million people be wrong? Absolutely, if they aren't right.

The question I guess shouldn't be whether you find it wrong or right. But whether that believe makes you think it should be forbidden under threats of punishment or not.

Do you think people should be violently stopped from having consensual sex with their siblings?

Originally posted by Stoic
So why don't we all just run off into the woods, and pump a mule?

Or someone of our own gender!? 😬

Your just talking about social concensus tbh. So far the only solid argument is more defects in reproduction, although I recall seeing it only being something like 0.3% more likely to cause a defect but I dont remember where, although that aside defects can happen with any couple, genetics are damn complicated.

I dont think anyone should be stopped in doing anything sexually as long as both parties consent, I dont belive in forcing anyone to do it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Or someone of our own gender!? 😬

Your just talking about social concensus tbh. So far the only solid argument is more defects in reproduction, although I recall seeing it only being something like 0.3% more likely to cause a defect but I dont remember where, although that aside defects can happen with any couple, genetics are damn complicated.

I dont think anyone should be stopped in doing anything sexually as long as both parties consent, I dont belive in forcing anyone to do it.

Call it what you will, but sex was always meant to be for procreation, not love, or lust. Anything outside of this could be considered a perversion. Take from it what you will. The truth can not be fought.

Bestiality does exist, when will people begin fighting for their right to marry their cat, or dog? Incest is wrong, unless you believe that its fine to sleep with you mother, or walk in on your dad performing cunnilingus on your sister. I think that you may have lost your ability to judge properly. To each their own though.

If however you want to continue to justify things that are wrong, just keep in mind that the laws of the land, are in place for many reasons. Some are ridiculous laws while some aren't. Sleeping with ones mother, or sister, is disturbing, not because I was indoctrinated into the belief that it is, but simply because something inside of me screams gross at the very thought.

Thats also arguable because what do you label as "meant to be"? Sex is used for procreation but it has a long list of reasons for it happening, love or lust are part of this. You dont get procreation without something along those lines since humans are not basic animals (most of us).

I dont know, maybe they will in thousands of years time, we have gay marriages and such and this was frowned upon. "judge" is based on as I said social concensus, if it was common for those things to happen across the world then the judgement of it being wrong woudl be considered falty. I just prefer logic over social concensus.

You claim its something inside of you, I feel the shiver of disgust on ones mother or sister but the fact is, people bypass that shiver and some things that make me shiver like same gender sex are perfectly viable in some cases or generally accepted.

It depends where you are, how you are raised because in some areas you would be considered weak or soft if you did not smoke or take a certain drug, this belief makes people, especially the young growing up in that area belive this and frown on people who dont believe it.

Hence why I say, the only real argument is the defects, just like how the physical problems you get from smoking are the best argument against it. You still have billions made from it all the time, and you still get people who think its "cool", just like how incest is "wrong". Concensus in an area.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats also arguable because what do you label as "meant to be"? Sex is used for procreation but it has a long list of reasons for it happening, love or lust are part of this. You dont get procreation without something along those lines since humans are not basic animals (most of us).

I dont know, maybe they will in thousands of years time, we have gay marriages and such and this was frowned upon. "judge" is based on as I said social concensus, if it was common for those things to happen across the world then the judgement of it being wrong woudl be considered falty. I just prefer logic over social concensus.

You claim its something inside of you, I feel the shiver of disgust on ones mother or sister but the fact is, people bypass that shiver and some things that make me shiver like same gender sex are perfectly viable in some cases or generally accepted.

It depends where you are, how you are raised because in some areas you would be considered weak or soft if you did not smoke or take a certain drug, this belief makes people, especially the young growing up in that area belive this and frown on people who dont believe it.

Hence why I say, the only real argument is the defects, just like how the physical problems you get from smoking are the best argument against it. You still have billions made from it all the time, and you still get people who think its "cool", just like how incest is "wrong". Concensus in an area.

Which is exactly why I asked in a prior post, could a million people be wrong. The fact is that they could be, if they aren't right. You may shiver at the thought of walking in on your father having sex with your sister, and conceiving your aunt or uncles, or even the thought of having sex with your mom, but then you would be drawing a line in the sand, which would be hypocritical on your part.

Wrong is wrong, whether you sleep with your mother or your cousin. You simply can't, or shouldn't be able to take a slice of the cake, if you aren't ready, or prepared to eat the entire unit. When does a person decide what's wrong or right? If its socially acceptable to eat your fellow man in a particular tribe, should we say that it's right, when we know that it is wrong?

Originally posted by Bardock42
The question I guess shouldn't be whether you find it wrong or right. But whether that believe makes you think it should be forbidden under threats of punishment or not.

Do you think people should be violently stopped from having consensual sex with their siblings?

I think that they should be thrown in jail. Not shot. It's against the law.

I see, well I completely disagree with you then.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I see, well I completely disagree with you then.

Then what? Truthfully you knocked me off the plank with your question, and I really had no true way of answering it. Jail is too harsh, but it still does not make it right.

Originally posted by Stoic
Which is exactly why I asked in a prior post, could a million people be wrong. The fact is that they could be, if they aren't right. You may shiver at the thought of walking in on your father having sex with your sister, and conceiving your aunt or uncles, or even the thought of having sex with your mom, but then you would be drawing a line in the sand, which would be hypocritical on your part.

Wrong is wrong, whether you sleep with your mother or your cousin. You simply can't, or shouldn't be able to take a slice of the cake, if you aren't ready, or prepared to eat the entire unit. When does a person decide what's wrong or right? If its socially acceptable to eat your fellow man in a particular tribe, should we say that it's right, when we know that it is wrong?

The entire planet can be wrong, people are ignorant and their views are based on their surroundings and upbringing, nobody is imo unbias. What would be hypocritical? I am just pointing out that this is my feeling on it, but my argument was that I may well be wrong for saying that, and both I and anyone who shares my view have it because of our social community or upbringing. If we were brought up on incest, I have no doubt both of us would be defending it.

Whats wrong? some people do eachother and whats more, they may stare or go hungry if they did not, some tribes as I said before say certain monkies are from the devil and should be killed, clearly this is wrong but this is a social consensus of the tribe, does that mean the social conensus on incest is also wrong? no not necesserily. Wrong is not just "wrong", there is not a general conensus on what is wrong but more a social one. Like my example on smoking, I would say its a general consensus its a stupid habit for uneducated people but I would be saying that to millions. Does that make me right or wrong? what if they defend it and I was alone?

Also you said you think people should be thrown in jail for incest, why not for gay relations?

Originally posted by Stoic
Then what? Truthfully you knocked me off the plank with your question, and I really had no true way of answering it. Jail is too harsh, but it still does not make it right.

Well, like I said I don't think anything should happen to people who want to do that. They should try not to make children, but even then, I wouldn't punish them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The entire planet can be wrong, people are ignorant and their views are based on their surroundings and upbringing, nobody is imo unbias. What would be hypocritical? I am just pointing out that this is my feeling on it, but my argument was that I may well be wrong for saying that, and both I and anyone who shares my view have it because of our social community or upbringing. If we were brought up on incest, I have no doubt both of us would be defending it.

Whats wrong? some people do eachother and whats more, they may stare or go hungry if they did not, some tribes as I said before say certain monkies are from the devil and should be killed, clearly this is wrong but this is a social consensus of the tribe, does that mean the social conensus on incest is also wrong? no not necesserily. Wrong is not just "wrong", there is not a general conensus on what is wrong but more a social one. Like my example on smoking, I would say its a general consensus its a stupid habit for uneducated people but I would be saying that to millions. Does that make me right or wrong? what if they defend it and I was alone?

Also you said you think people should be thrown in jail for incest, why not for gay relations?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, like I said I don't think anything should happen to people who want to do that. They should try not to make children, but even then, I wouldn't punish them.

Wow I never considered how complex this subject could be. I opt to remain close minded on the issue, but I do see both of your points, and positions on the matter.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Would people of ancient Rome believed differently about incest if the majority believed it to be wrong?

Incest was only really prevalent & practiced among the nobility of ancient Rome & Egypt to keep their bloodlines intact.

It was a common practice amongst the general public of ancient times.

Dont other animals do it? because if thats the case, it could be argued its natural and that human distaste for it, certainly in modern times is purely from social upbringing and such rather than anything instinct based.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dont other animals do it? because if thats the case, it could be argued its natural and that human distaste for it, certainly in modern times is purely from social upbringing and such rather than anything instinct based.

Like I said before, or tried to say. If any part of an act is wrong, you need to question the entire subject.

Sleep with your mom, go on, just do it, and once you are done, ask yourself if if felt right. Or if you are gay, sleep with your dad. If incest is right and fine you will feel no negative thoughts, or get the shivers about the idea. This is how you know it's wrong.

I believe that when people are convicted by a certain thing, that it is a message from God telling you right from wrong. Now there of course are those that would defend or justify the wrong that they do... those people however are likely reprobates, or are on the road towards becoming such.

Originally posted by Stoic
Like I said before, or tried to say. If any part of an act is wrong, you need to question the entire subject.

Sleep with your mom, go on, just do it, and once you are done, ask yourself if if felt right. Or if you are gay, sleep with your dad. If incest is right and fine you will feel no negative thoughts, or get the shivers about the idea. This is how you know it's wrong.

I believe that when people are convicted by a certain thing, that it is a message from God telling you right from wrong. Now there of course are those that would defend or justify the wrong that they do... those people however are likely reprobates, or are on the road towards becoming such.

But that is a flawed argument. People are different. If you slept with a guy you might have negative feelings about it, cause you are straight (and Religious apparently). But on the other hand, if a man that's gay sleeps with a woman, he'll have negative feelings about that, does that mean that a man having sex with women is wrong? No! People are different and we shouldn't judge and punish people for things that we may not enjoy, but they do, that don't harm anybody.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But that is a flawed argument. People are different. If you slept with a guy you might have negative feelings about it, cause you are straight (and Religious apparently). But on the other hand, if a man that's gay sleeps with a woman, he'll have negative feelings about that, does that mean that a man having sex with women is wrong? No! People are different and we shouldn't judge and punish people for things that we may not enjoy, but they do, that don't harm anybody.

A man that sleeps with a woman is most certainly right, if commitment is attached to it.

What I said had very little to do with what you replied. I meant that if incest is right, then sleeping with your parents is equally correct. Could you sleep with your mother, and not see something wrong with it? Or if you are a person that sleeps solely with same sex partners could you sleep with your father, and feel that it was right? Would you feel any form of conviction to the act? I never condemned homosexuality, if you felt that I did, I'm telling you that I did not. My message was basically this, if any part of the whole is wrong, you need to question the entire thing, because you can't or shouldn't suddenly feel to justify one part, while spitting at the other. You understand?

Originally posted by Stoic
Could you sleep with your mother, and not see something wrong with it?

This seems irrelevant to a moral argument unless you're starting from the idea that anything that feels bad is bad.