Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
It depends. Sidious was too fast for Kolar and Saessee to react. And Fisto died after like 30 seconds. However, I'm sure Obi's Posse is faster than that.
yea i agree the jedi masters were probably to sure of them selves.
anakin even told mace's group to straight up kill him but instead tehy walked in there and told him he was under arrest.
i doubt a sith lord is just gonna give up without a fight.
they shouldve been expecting sidiuos to strike at them
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
How is Qui-Gon the biggest threat? Obi-Wan is the biggest since he's the strongest swordsmen. Quinlan is also better than Qui-Gon. Aayla is worse however.
And Fisto died after like 30 seconds.
anakin even told mace's group to straight up kill him
Originally posted by darthsith19
When was this?
He didn't tell Mace to "straight up kill him". He just said that Palpatine is "very powerful" and that Mace will "need me" there. Which, more or less, seemed to be true.
Regardless, Palpatine takes this.
Obi-Wan was only able to handle Count Dooku because of Anakin. The moment that Dooku separated them, and used the Force, Obi-Wan was done. Knocked unconscious and pinned to the floor.
Obi-Wan and Anakin were two of the greatest duelists in the Order. In lightsaber ability, Anakin is better than Dooku, and on par with Mace, Yoda, and Palpatine. And, still, Dooku was able to hold his own against them both (the reason being: without Obi-Wan, Anakin tapped into his rage and was unrestrained by his mentor - giving him the power to crush Dooku). Let's not forget, too, that Anakin and Obi-Wan were an extremely formidable team - complementing eachother's weaknesses and magnifying their strength.
Different fight, true. But, now, you have Obi-Wan - who is proficient in ability, true, but really only in defensive capabilities. He'd be able to keep Palpatine busy in a saber-to-saber confrontation, but Sidious is simply miles ahead of these three in Force abilities.
Palpatine will kill Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon was manhandled by Maul, who was also fighting Kenobi. He will die very easily as well, and which means Quinlan meets an ugly demise.
Palpatine takes this. Obi-Wan may cause a bit of trouble (I doubt it, though), and then he simply slaughters the other two.
Actually, that's about it besides Mundi and Shaak Ti might be stronger than some of the 3, Kenobi, Skywalker, Yoda (of course) and that one green Jedi in the comic Star Wars Republic: Into the Unknown. And who cares what Shaak Ti says, anyways, Lucas says "Mace brought the "B" team." and nothing can contradict that except anotehr quote from Lucas.
if they were all equal as being the best in the order, then they would all have virtually put up the same degree of a fight, and as i recall, Mace lasted longer than the others, and then Yoda lasted even longer(only cause Anakin saved Palps, but whatever.) the best were Yoda, Mace, Slywalker, Kenobi, Ki, and Plo. Not in that order mind you. That obviously wasn't the A team, as lucas himself stated.
Originally posted by Escape81
He didn't tell Mace to "straight up kill him". He just said that Palpatine is "very powerful" and that Mace will "need me" there. Which, more or less, seemed to be true.Regardless, Palpatine takes this.
Obi-Wan was only able to handle Count Dooku because of Anakin. The moment that Dooku separated them, and used the Force, Obi-Wan was [B]done
. Knocked unconscious and pinned to the floor.Obi-Wan and Anakin were two of the greatest duelists in the Order. In lightsaber ability, Anakin is better than Dooku, and on par with Mace, Yoda, and Palpatine. And, still, Dooku was able to hold his own against them both (the reason being: without Obi-Wan, Anakin tapped into his rage and was unrestrained by his mentor - giving him the power to crush Dooku). Let's not forget, too, that Anakin and Obi-Wan were an extremely formidable team - complementing eachother's weaknesses and magnifying their strength.
Different fight, true. But, now, you have Obi-Wan - who is proficient in ability, true, but really only in defensive capabilities. He'd be able to keep Palpatine busy in a saber-to-saber confrontation, but Sidious is simply miles ahead of these three in Force abilities.
Palpatine will kill Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon was manhandled by Maul, who was also fighting Kenobi. He will die very easily as well, and which means Quinlan meets an ugly demise.
Palpatine takes this. Obi-Wan may cause a bit of trouble (I doubt it, though), and then he simply slaughters the other two. [/B]
I think this is pretty close to 100% accurate.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Best is Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Cin, Plo (in that order, of course)
Although I'm not sure about Plo, in terms of overall skill this list seems good.
In terms of Saber Ability I'd say:
[Yoda=Mace=Anakin=Sidious]>Dooku>[Obi-Wan=Cin]>Plo/ Everyone else.
if they were all equal as being the best in the order, then they would all have virtually put up the same degree of a fight, and as i recall, Mace lasted longer than the others, and then Yoda lasted even longer(only cause Anakin saved Palps, but whatever.) the best were Yoda, Mace, Slywalker, Kenobi, Ki, and Plo. Not in that order mind you. That obviously wasn't the A team, as lucas himself stated.
Being the “best” in the order did not mean they had to be equal. The fact that Mace was above all of them remains. It only meant that they were the most powerful Jedi out of ALL THE ORDER.
I don’t have the book, so I’d appreciate it if someone shed some light. I read somewhere in one of the Wookiepedia talk pages that she indeed did say that the four Jedi were the BEST of the order, and not that they were just the best that were around at the time. And for her to say this would mean she most likely knew about the Jedi’s plans on arresting the chancellor before the actual arrest, which would mean she was probably at the Jedi Temple at the time herself. Thus, if she was better than the Jedi, as one of you have stated, than why the hell did Mace not choose HER?
I don’t think we should totally disregard what Shaak Ti stated. I mean, hell, first people were saying everything bloody Obi-Wan Kenobi said about Kit was invalid, and now, as a completely different Jedi comes out saying that Kit, Agen, Saesee and Mace were the best in the order, people state “who cares what Shaak Ti said”.
What the hell. Shaak Ti is a Jedi Master, like Obi-Wan Kenobi. They’re opinions about something should be considered most valuable, not the opposite.
And quite frankly, unless we have an official quote that states that there were other Jedi at the time who were better, than why should we NOT believe the Jedi were, indeed, the best? (besides Yoda, of course)
With all "fanboyism" aside, I doubt very much that Mace would have asked, or chosen to accompany Kit on THREE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OCCASIONS if he did not actually think he was one of the best.
Mace brought the "B" team
I don’t quite understand what George means by this. Is he implying that the Jedi Mace bought along with him were not as good as the others in the order, or did he simply state this for lack of better words? Or did he use this as an excuse to explain the reason for the Jedi’s disappointingly quick death? Regardless, I know what Lucas says is the most powerful form of Canon there is, so I’m not going to argue this. I would, however, appreciate it if someone actually provided the full quote for this, including what question it was that caused him to say such a thing.
Anyways, is this so called "B" team the same team that Mace HAND PICKED OUT OF ALL THE JEDI at the temple to accompany him in ending a bounty hunting dispute on the Jedi (whom coincidentally happened to be Saesee, Agen and Kit)?
I doubt very much that the three Jedi were randomly chosen by Mace, or chosen simply because they were the only Jedi in the temple at the time, when Mace had in fact shared a mission with the SAME Jedi beforehand. In most probability, Mace chose the Jedi because HE KNEW FIRSTHAND what the Jedi were capable of. It's not as if he chose some complete strangers for the fun of it. He had actually been in a battle with the three Jedi before (one of them two times before) to know of their potential, which is thusly why he chose THEM of all to accompany him in arresting the Chancellor.
Originally posted by MEDVOCK
[b]if they were all equal as being the best in the order, then they would all have virtually put up the same degree of a fight, and as i recall, Mace lasted longer than the others, and then Yoda lasted even longer(only cause Anakin saved Palps, but whatever.) the best were Yoda, Mace, Slywalker, Kenobi, Ki, and Plo. Not in that order mind you. That obviously wasn't the A team, as lucas himself stated.Being the “best” in the order did not mean they had to be equal. The fact that Mace was above all of them remains. It only meant that they were the most powerful Jedi out of ALL THE ORDER.
I don’t have the book, so I’d appreciate it if someone shed some light. I read somewhere in one of the Wookiepedia talk pages that she indeed did say that the four Jedi were the BEST of the order, and not that they were just the best that were around at the time. And for her to say this would mean she most likely knew about the Jedi’s plans on arresting the chancellor before the actual arrest, which would mean she was probably at the Jedi Temple at the time herself. Thus, if she was better than the Jedi, as one of you have stated, than why the hell did Mace not choose HER?
I don’t think we should totally disregard what Shaak Ti stated. I mean, hell, first people were saying everything bloody Obi-Wan Kenobi said about Kit was invalid, and now, as a completely different Jedi comes out saying that Kit, Agen, Saesee and Mace were the best in the order, people state “who cares what Shaak Ti said”.
What the hell. Shaak Ti is a Jedi Master, like Obi-Wan Kenobi. They’re opinions about something should be considered most valuable, not the opposite.
And quite frankly, unless we have an official quote that states that there were other Jedi at the time who were better, than why should we NOT believe the Jedi were, indeed, the best? (besides Yoda, of course)
With all "fanboyism" aside, I doubt very much that Mace would have asked, or chosen to accompany Kit on THREE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OCCASIONS if he did not actually think he was one of the best.
Mace brought the "B" team
I don’t quite understand what George means by this. Is he implying that the Jedi Mace bought along with him were not as good as the others in the order, or did he simply state this for lack of better words? Or did he use this as an excuse to explain the reason for the Jedi’s disappointingly quick death? Regardless, I know what Lucas says is the most powerful form of Canon there is, so I’m not going to argue this. I would, however, appreciate it if someone actually provided the full quote for this, including what question it was that caused him to say such a thing.
Anyways, is this so called "B" team the same team that Mace HAND PICKED OUT OF ALL THE JEDI at the temple to accompany him in ending a bounty hunting dispute on the Jedi (whom coincidentally happened to be Saesee, Agen and Kit)?
I doubt very much that the three Jedi were randomly chosen by Mace, or chosen simply because they were the only Jedi in the temple at the time, when Mace had in fact shared a mission with the SAME Jedi beforehand. In most probability, Mace chose the Jedi because HE KNEW FIRSTHAND what the Jedi were capable of. It's not as if he chose some complete strangers for the fun of it. He had actually been in a battle with the three Jedi before (one of them two times before) to know of their potential, which is thusly why he chose THEM of all to accompany him in arresting the Chancellor. [/B]
You have to understand something, all the most powerful Jedi, except Mace, were all deployed on missions,a nd Mace was kinda like the Rear Detachment officer, ya know? If he was to take the best Jedi in the Order, he would have called back Yoda, OB1, Ki, PLo and he wouldn't have told Anakin to stay back. Anakin would have pwned those Jedi as well, maybe not as fast as Sidious, but he's still above them. They were left behind for a reason, Yoda/Mace probably didn't feel they were fully capable of leading a battalion each into battle. So they might have been the best that were there. I think when Lucas said the B team, he meant just that, the best jedi were not around so he sent in the second string. If he wanted them to make a better showing against Sidious, he could have done it. Its not like going back and making an excuse for piss poor OT fights and blaming it on them being old and "out of practice". This time around, he could of done something about it, and so they were meant to die that fast being that they weer in fact the "B" team.
There's a thread I made called the The Top Ten Jedi During the Clone Wars. Read if it and see if you can find a list you like. My list was:
1.) Yoda
2.) Mace
3.) Anakin
4.) Obi-Wan
5.) Cin Dralig
6.) Depa Billaba
7.) Plo Koon
8.) Luminara Unduli
9.) Quinlan Vos
10.) Kit Fisto
Honorable Mentions: Shaak Ti, Agen Kolar, Saesse Tiin, Jai Maruk, the green guy in Star Wars Republic: Into the Unknown, Ki-Adi Mundi, Tholme, etc.
Mace said that Depa rivals - and possibly exceeds - himself in sheer swordsmanship. That's easily more than enough to put her above Obi-Wan.
And, Medvock, it was a producer saying "Mace brought the B-Team", noticing how quick and easily Tinn, Kolar, and Fisto died. Lucas's response was simply that Palpatine is just so much better than them - and you have to be either Mace or Yoda to rival Palpatine in power.
Mace said she apparently exceed him in sheer swordsmanship, which is not true at all. Obi-Wan rivals Mace as well, as he is close to Anakin and Anakin is on par with Windu. I highly doubt Depa's Vapaad is greater than Kenobi's Soresu. In addition, Mace seemed to fight Depa comfortably in Shatterpoint.