Rate the person above at debating.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And honestly I would give next to none here a 9 in overall debating. We might school the OTF, but 90% of you guys would get schooled by the GDF, Philosophy, and perhaps the Religion forum. Brutal honesty though, xmarks knows what I mean. This place isn't quite what it used to be but you get the good debaters here and there, most of KMC is based on bashing your opponent than anything else, and I know that more than anyone seeing as I've been on both sides.

i'd disagree with that. the good debaters here can handle themselves in the gdf just fine -- sometimes though, the people here are younger and simply lack the appropriate knowledge set to match up in the gdf. personally, i don't much enjoy the gdf. there are a lot of fanatics (or were, i've not visited it in a while) and the discussions can get VERY heated. i also rarely find PROOF in debates held in the gdf. more often than not (in some of the debates i had there) it is one person screaming their opinion over and over. there are some very intelligent people there, and i learned a few things, but there are a lot of no-nothings as well who spout a lot of crap and who push their own agendas.

the specific forums (religion and philosophy, etc . . .) are totally different, because you get people there debating their fields of preference so at times you get very good, knowledgeable debates.

There is also something to be said about the size of a forum as well. The larger forums tend to get more traffic, but along with that comes more spam.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd disagree with that. the good debaters here can handle themselves in the gdf just fine -- sometimes though, the people here are younger and simply lack the appropriate knowledge set to match up in the gdf.

Originally posted by leonidas
personally, i don't much enjoy the gdf. there are a lot of fanatics (or were, i've not visited it in a while) and the discussions can get VERY heated.

Originally posted by leonidas
i also rarely find PROOF in debates held in the gdf. more often than not (in some of the debates i had there) it is one person screaming their opinion over and over.

Originally posted by leonidas
there are some very intelligent people there, and i learned a few things, but there are a lot of no-nothings as well who spout a lot of crap and who push their own agendas.

Originally posted by leonidas
the specific forums (religion and philosophy, etc . . .) are totally different, because you get people there debating their fields of preference so at times you get very good, knowledgeable debates.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There is also something to be said about the size of a forum as well. The larger forums tend to get more traffic, but along with that comes more spam.

Yes, I'd say the top 10% would hold their own in the GDF, but not the other 90%. But even then I don't think most would be able to shift the momentum in a debate. But it's not always about the lack of skill, sometimes it is the lack of knowledge and maturity overall. For example, I find guys like Psyquis and Howard Jones to make excellent points in these forums along with many that people don't know, but they get overlooked because most people in this community, know this community, and pat each others backs. But the youth and lack of knowledge is all part of debating talent; alongside logic, and presentation. These things should count accordingly as a whole of KMC forums (because the title does say KMC forums and not just comics). Would I give many people in the comics section higher scores? Yes, but as a whole forum, I'm afraid not. 😬

i get what you're saying and agree for the most part. comparing the 2 isn't really fair though -- the avgerage of the poster in the gdf would almost certainly be a lot higher than it is in this forum. that means more experience and more time to develop thoughts and opinions, not to mention the gaining of knowledge. for that reason alone, it wouldn't be fair to compare the bulk of posters in the gdf with those who post here.

That is true, but the same could be said about here. People browsing this forum might see the various fanboys and think it's ridiculous to offer a premise and supporting conclusion about a comic book character. We get far more reports than the GDF though. I do agree the people there tend to be more elitist on average, but I must say the discussions are presented more professionally in the average poster there than here. Which isn't bad, as some people just like to post on their favorite characters.

again true. i didn't mean to imply that this forum does NOT have the flaws i mentioned in regards to the gdf. just that imo those flaws are often more understandable here. when i debate here, i tend to think that most of the people i speak with are very young, so that sort of mediates my responses and my reactions. in the gdf, you get guys who really DO think they know everything. lots of condescension in the gdf. here too, but somehow, it's different. people DO take themselves too seriously here, but it's not the same as in the gdf, imo, and if you see what i'm trying to say. 😬 acting tough in a comic forum really, in reality, doesn't mean a damn thing . . .

But the same could be said here. But honestly most of it is entirely subjective: is abortion right or wrong? Homosexuality? You can post statistics, but neither side is "wrong" and both have good arguments that go forever. The key is being mature enough to accept that you aren't going to change everyone and post your point as professionally as possible.

you hit a big difference between the 2 -- here, very often cases CAN be concluded with evidence. gdf is often related to issues where opinions are strictly expressed. one of the differences also revolves around your other point -- the ability to SEE that a discussion cannot be resolved. again, that speaks to maturity, which speaks to the age levels of the forums. you wouldn't EXPECT that to happen as often here because the posters tend to be younger.

Alot like here. ALOT like here. Don't get me wrong, I love the CvS community more, but I just like debating in other threads more. These threads never go nowhere, they get silly, repetitive, redundant, fanboyed, more bashing than anything. It's a contest of "whoever screams the loudest wins".

yeah, i'm afraid we can't get away from THAT kind of thing in any forum . . . 🙁

That is true, but even Religion can be very harsh with the severe number of people that are just out to prove all religion as a hoax and don't really listen, then accuse the others of the same.

that religion forum is a dog-fighting pit!! they go for blood.

main differences i see between gdf and this forum:

1. age level (more 'mature' overall in gdf)
2. gdf tends to be a place to voice opinions on basically unresolvable issues, which makes it a much different type of forum than this one.

Well Leo is good in my book. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
i get what you're saying and agree for the most part. comparing the 2 isn't really fair though -- the avgerage of the poster in the gdf would almost certainly be a lot higher than it is in this forum.

Originally posted by leonidas
that means more experience and more time to develop thoughts and opinions, not to mention the gaining of knowledge. for that reason alone, it wouldn't be fair to compare the bulk of posters in the gdf with those who post here.

Originally posted by leonidas
again true. i didn't mean to imply that this forum does NOT have the flaws i mentioned in regards to the gdf. just that imo those flaws are often more understandable here.

Originally posted by leonidas
when i debate here, i tend to think that most of the people i speak with are very young, so that sort of mediates my responses and my reactions. in the gdf, you get guys who really DO think they know everything.

Originally posted by leonidas
lots of condescension in the gdf. here too, but somehow, it's different. people DO take themselves too seriously here, but it's not the same as in the gdf, imo, and if you see what i'm trying to say. 😬 acting tough in a comic forum really, in reality, doesn't mean a damn thing . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
you hit a big difference between the 2 -- here, very often cases CAN be concluded with evidence.

Originally posted by leonidas
gdf is often related to issues where opinions are strictly expressed. one of the differences also revolves around your other point -- the ability to SEE that a discussion cannot be resolved. again, that speaks to maturity, which speaks to the age levels of the forums. you wouldn't EXPECT that to happen as often here because the posters tend to be younger.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i'm afraid we can't get away from THAT kind of thing in any forum . . . 🙁

Originally posted by leonidas
that religion forum is a dog-fighting pit!! they go for blood.

Originally posted by leonidas
main differences i see between gdf and this forum:

1. age level (more 'mature' overall in gdf)
2. gdf tends to be a place to voice opinions on basically unresolvable issues, which makes it a much different type of forum than this one.

Originally posted by Newjak
Good point so I i\'ll say a 7 because now that think about it the lower people were the ones completely buying into it weren\'t they.

Not that i\'d know being quite new but......... Did anyone particularly find the ideas of GS amusing?

Originally posted by leonidas
i\'d disagree with that. the good debaters here can handle themselves in the gdf just fine -- sometimes though, the people here are younger and simply lack the appropriate knowledge set to match up in the gdf. personally, i don\'t much enjoy the gdf. there are a lot of fanatics (or were, i\'ve not visited it in a while) and the discussions can get VERY heated. i also rarely find PROOF in debates held in the gdf. more often than not (in some of the debates i had there) it is one person screaming their opinion over and over. there are some very intelligent people there, and i learned a few things, but there are a lot of no-nothings as well who spout a lot of crap and who push their own agendas.

the specific forums (religion and philosophy, etc . . .) are totally different, because you get people there debating their fields of preference so at times you get very good, knowledgeable debates.

Not that i\'d know being quite new but has anyone from this forum ever exploited the sort of stupidity you talk about in the GDF for their own amusement?

🙂

🤘

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which is true, no different than the average here would be alot higher than the off-topic. My point was the thread, although in the comic section did say the forums (very generally in terms of skill). Like I said I would give the usual Leo, Illadeph, Demi, GS (who is good at debating, despite some frustrations), even Jinzin, Whirly (who was also intelligent), and xmarks all high scores. But alot of the others just aren\\\'t ready to take many of them on in that forum, which wasn\\\'t more of a diss, but a statement of observation.

If this Whirly guy was so intelligent how come he got banned and could never come on KMC again......... Ever 😉

I agree that GDF is more mature place, but then again, they discuss about more mature things. They discuss about the stuff that real politicians, philosophers, and scientists study about. We discuss about comics. There ARE mature comics, works of art that can be rated close to literature and artistic masterpieces, but like it or not, the average comic reader that comes in to debate about comics is 13-15 with his hormones RAGING, only "knows" that Superman is UBER powerful, Batman can beat god himself with preptime, Wolverine and Punisher are like totally uberawesomebadasscool, Hulk is the strongest one there is, and Spider-Man...is Spider-Man...

Usually, when they come to the forums, every - single - one of those assumptions is crushed under the heel of merciless forum veterans who have been debating for years and have thirst for fanboy BLOOD. The veterans have, through the hardships that they encounter against the idiocy of 13-year old average fanboy males, become xenophobes. So they own him, or her in some cases at every point that is possible to own, and thus, make him angry.

Now, I have counted that about 10% of newcomers are smart, know about comics,and never get owned in such ways, but 90% of the newcomers are 13-year old average fanboy males.

70 % of them find something else to do nearly immediatly and leave the forum, not really caring about it. 10% stay for some time but never really learn of their mistakes and pop up to be idiots again couple of times. Another 10% stay for long time, never learn anything for years, and become a forum joke. The select 10% of actually learn of their mistakes, grow up during the years, and become respectable debaters.

Usually, after that, they however forget the time when they were 13-year old average fanboy males with raging hormones and start to be veterans longer...and fight new newcomers...and become xenophobes. So, when another newcomer comes up, and says something stupid, he is met by cynical responses that make him angry...

And so the circle of versus forums continues.

Because the select few become forum veterans (roughly 5-10% of the entire community stay up enough to be considered such), and about 10% of the newcomers are smart, they are usually overlooked in the favor of 80% that don't know much of anything, are young, immature, have raging hormones, and become angry.

That is, I guess why versus forums are overlooked upon the more mature forums like religion, general, and philosophy. 80% of the comics people are immature, and it is true. Most of these boards are really immature. The average 13-year old average fanboy male doesn't go to religion or philosophy forum. Comics have colours and cool characters, and have action, so of course they go to comic forums.

This is why I have proposed to have select password protected comic forum section for veterans...as mature comic discussion, not Wolverine VS Thanos with IG and other stuff like that. A versus forum where the points are displayed like on General Chat or Religion Forum. No flaming...no fanboyness...

What a beautiful dream it would be.

There was my rant.

Originally posted by pantysniffer
Not that i\'d know being quite new but......... Did anyone particularly find the ideas of GS amusing?

Not that i\'d know being quite new but has anyone from this forum ever exploited the sort of stupidity you talk about in the GDF for their own amusement?

🙂

🤘

hmm, maybe. there was this guy that used to hang around the forums . . . 😖hifty:

🤘

😉

Darkcrawler: Building a better Comic Forum for Tomorrow.

DC for President!

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, maybe. there was this guy that used to hang around the forums . . . 😖hifty:

🤘

😉

I bet that sort of fun must be hard to give up. 🙂 Wonder what he\'s doing now?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well Leo is good in my book. 🙂

😂

thanks, bro. but this isn't really a debate as much as it's a discussion of the differences between the 2 forums.

But alot of the others just aren't ready to take many of them on in that forum, which wasn't more of a diss, but a statement of observation.

one i agree with. but i'd add that the REASON is because a lot of posters on this forum just don't have the experience or knowledge base to hold their own on the gdf, and that is primarily (though not wholly, certainly) because of age. likely also because they simply enjoy dealing with comics and staying AWAY from the real world stuff. 🙂

That is true, but plenty of posters come on here good from the start, like Creshosk. They would definitely be more mature, and better presenters, but it does reinforce my point in the end.

some do. i've actually noticed that we are getting better 'noobs' around here. howard, desaad, goober, bran, all these guys started off as pretty solid debaters. i think part of the reason is because there are more forums around, so more places to gain experience. people are hearing about us from different places where they have already gained some experience. there are still a lot of noobs who come in knowing very little and not knowing how to handle debates. but i've noticed a nice, upward trend in this area and in my not-too-lengthy time on this forum. 🙂

I can agree to an extent, but the flaws also tend to shine more or less here. More misbehaviour, flaming, etc. Although there are more immature posters as well.

that's what happens when you get a bunch of teenagers going at it! 😂

Like I agree they are very elitist and I know the common names that most will say, but you do get that here as well. Or the people who think just because they have been here longer are correct as well. We have more people here who just think they are Gods in their own world, but they aren't as good in an expanded one.

in some cases because they haven't gained experience or knowledge enough to try the gdf. or simply because they CHOOSE not to. we get enough 'real life' in the 'real world'. personally, i don't need even MORE real world brought to me via cyberspace. 🙂

Well it is understandable for their to be frustration with some of the topics there and the history of the posters. I mean most people can't keep calm when a racist comes in and makes racists comments or comments that show an adverse behavior to a certain group. But like I said, with my experience here and all of the "anti-C-Master socks", I can say I have expressed myself there more freely and with less persecution than here.

i've never understood the cracks at you . . . ❌ my WORST ever experience on the forums was in the gdf. i debated (stupid in retrospect) guns with an nra member . . . 🙄

that . . . didn't end well and pretty much turned me OFF the gdf. 🙁

to be fair, mindship and i have had some great discussions there in the past and i've enjoyed and participated in many gdf threads. just overall, i like the atmosphere in the comic forum better.

Sometimes, but most often people don't see it. But the fact of the matter is: we all have a different view of what a character should be like. Your view of Spiderman will be a bit different than my view of Spiderman which would be quite a bit different than Masterbruce's view of Spiderman. We can only hope to reach a ground where it is somewhat accepted. But most debates just come down to posting high ends for their character and low ends for another. We are all human and biased, but the ones who stifle their bias better (more experienced or no) are better debators.

true in any forum.

Which is true, but the posts are also more serious and open different opportunities to show strong points than this one as well. I understand the comparison should be different based on knowledge, but I am basing it on overall presentation: how would Debator A do in this environment as opposed to Debator B in the other?

certainly the gdf has more 'serious' topics -- usually. they have their own share of silly ones as well. just look at the first page and you can see some silly threads. your question is one that i find difficult to answer though. you're essentially asking would someone who is an excellent debater in the gdf debate better in the gdf than an excellent debater in the comic forum could debate comics. i don't think there is anyway to answer that. BOTH are equally good in their respective arena. drop each into the OTHER forum, and BOTH likely get messed up. though odds are greater someone in the comic forum would ALSO be 'real world smart' than a 'real world smart' person would be good in comics. comics IS a pretty specialized field and not many 'average' people know a lot about it.

that settles it! comic forum people are smarter overall! they (tend to) know real world AND comics, while gdf'ers (tend) only to know REAL WORLD!

debate settled.

😂

Originally posted by pantysniffer
I bet that sort of fun must be hard to give up. 🙂 Wonder what he\'s doing now?

umm, sniffing panties . . .?

😖hifty:

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

thanks, bro. but this isn't really a debate as much as it's a discussion of the differences between the 2 forums.

one i agree with. but i'd add that the REASON is because a lot of posters on this forum just don't have the experience or knowledge base to hold their own on the gdf, and that is primarily (though not wholly, certainly) because of age. likely also because they simply enjoy dealing with comics and staying AWAY from the real world stuff. 🙂

some do. i've actually noticed that we are getting better 'noobs' around here. howard, desaad, goober, bran, all these guys started off as pretty solid debaters. i think part of the reason is because there are more forums around, so more places to gain experience. people are hearing about us from different places where they have already gained some experience. there are still a lot of noobs who come in knowing very little and not knowing how to handle debates. but i've noticed a nice, upward trend in this area and in my not-too-lengthy time on this forum. 🙂

that's what happens when you get a bunch of teenagers going at it! 😂

in some cases because they haven't gained experience or knowledge enough to try the gdf. or simply because they CHOOSE not to. we get enough 'real life' in the 'real world'. personally, i don't need even MORE real world brought to me via cyberspace. 🙂

i've never understood the cracks at you . . . ❌ my WORST ever experience on the forums was in the gdf. i debated (stupid in retrospect) guns with an nra member . . . 🙄

that . . . didn't end well and pretty much turned me OFF the gdf. 🙁

to be fair, mindship and i have had some great discussions there in the past and i've enjoyed and participated in many gdf threads. just overall, i like the atmosphere in the comic forum better.

true in any forum.

certainly the gdf has more 'serious' topics -- usually. they have their own share of silly ones as well. just look at the first page and you can see some silly threads. your question is one that i find difficult to answer though. you're essentially asking would someone who is an excellent debater in the gdf debate better in the gdf than an excellent debater in the comic forum could debate comics. i don't think there is anyway to answer that. BOTH are equally good in their respective arena. drop each into the OTHER forum, and BOTH likely get messed up. though odds are greater someone in the comic forum would ALSO be 'real world smart' than a 'real world smart' person would be good in comics. comics IS a pretty specialized field and not many 'average' people know a lot about it.

that settles it! comic forum people are smarter overall! they (tend to) know real world AND comics, while gdf'ers (tend) only to know REAL WORLD!

debate settled.

😂

Unless you have alot of free time. 😖hifty:

Originally posted by leonidas
umm, sniffing panties . . .?

😖hifty:

That sounds fetishisticly (does such a word exist?) brilliant. I will rate both Leo and Cmaster 100000000 out of 10.

Spoiler:
Am I using a fraction? probably not!

🙂

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Maybe I should have worded it better but I meant in terms of overall presentation. But we can settle it, we're both "mature adults" that don't need to have a pissing contest for 5 pages...

Unless you have alot of free time. 😖hifty:

not THAT much time . . . 😂

we'll call it a draw and say BOTH forums have their advantages and disadvantages, good guys and bad guys. you're one of the good ones in my book.

🙂

Originally posted by pantysniffer
That sounds fetishisticly (does such a word exist?) brilliant. I will rate both Leo and Cmaster 100000000 out of 10.

Spoiler:
Am I using a fraction? probably not!

🙂

💃

Originally posted by pantysniffer
That sounds fetishisticly (does such a word exist?) brilliant. I will rate both Leo and Cmaster 100000000 out of 10.

Spoiler:
Am I using a fraction? probably not!

🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
not THAT much time . . . 😂

we'll call it a draw and say BOTH forums have their advantages and disadvantages, good guys and bad guys. you're one of the good ones in my book.

🙂

C-Master is a good guy, but I don't think I've ever got in a debate with him. We usually end up on the same side.

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

i think you gave that to me LAST time, and the reason was something like -- you never really saw me wtfpwn someone who you thought was a good debater. then i bumped into a certain . . . mr and you declared it total pwnage.

wtf's a guy gotta do 'round here to get an upgrade ya cheap bastich!!??

😠

😛

By the way CM and Leo I would like one of you guys to rate me. I know how I rate myself but constructive criticism is always appreciated

Originally posted by Newjak
It was a joke but yeah with that certain MM guy I\'ll give you an 8.9 so now your one point from being a 9 😉

By the way CM and Leo I would like one of you guys to rate me. I know how I rate myself but constructive criticism is always appreciated

You will always be the Bartender. 🙂