Now I'm going to have to be fair here.
While me and GS have never really seen eye to eye on the Phoenix people are being a little overzealous at the moment with the Chaoswave.
The fact is that Phoenix in the eyes of the X-Men universe is as GS says while in reality the whole of marvel is different.
Now I've always thought this would be retconned and the Phoenix would loose some of tis high standing.
That being said I don't see this as being that.
First while throwing out Omniverse and Multiverse sounds great the only reality that was infact changed was 616. Now I know somethings are used to try and explain that the point is we don't know how effective or how big this really was. Heck even the Phoenix force has been shown to branch into many of the Multiverses.
So here is what we do know that 616 was changed but on what scale we don't even know that. For the most part it was limited to Earth we have no clue as to whether other parts of 616 was effected after the initial showing.
Next what else we know about how things happen we never see any of the higher abstract beings stepping in. We never see Eternity or the Living Tribunal taking notice of this.
Now to be fair this means two things.
A) The Chaoswave was so overpowering that Eternity or the likes never had a chance to stop it but seeing as they have fought against the IG before its hard to see this.
B) It wasn't big enough a threat to take on.
Next as to just how the Chaoswave comes about. We know Wanda seemingly brings it about but this has its own ups and downs. For instance Wanda is a mutant. This means that in reality she is supposed to be able to extend and eventually become a part of the Phoenix force as well.
So was this Chaoswave solely based on her powers or her taping into the Phoenix Force allowing her to use her full potential???
Or did the Wanda have help from a higher up increasing her power???
In the End we don't know enough about what happened how high up the food chain it really goes and just how effective it is. We don't even know just what this Ascension is and whether it truely is heaven.
And with Phoenix Warsong coming out alot of this HOM stuff could be retconned after that really easily. You guys may be right but there is alot of room to be wrong as well especially with such a limited event.
Phoenix healed an infected future by making scott fall in love with emma.
That may be impressive, but it doesnt compare to being able to warp the entire reality and possibly causing the entire collapse of the omniverse. Wanda couldve wiped out everything leaving nothing left.
And all Wanda has to say is "No more Phoenix" and it's over.
No where does it say anything baout Wanda's power has anything to do with the Phoenix.
Wanda could remove Jean's mutant powers, hence shes no longer an Omega and unable to house the Phoenix Force for very long.
People who aren't Omega's and try to house the Phoenix are tramuatized by it.
Examples:
Scott in X-men vs Teen Titans
Emma recently in Phoenix Warsong
When her power is fully active Wanda cannot be killed as poor Hawkeye found out.
Originally posted by Ext@ntObviously you didn't read a single thing I said and took one part of it to discuss.
Phoenix healed an infected future by making scott fall in love with emma.That may be impressive, but it doesnt compare to being able to warp the entire reality and possibly causing the entire collapse of the omniverse. Wanda couldve wiped out everything leaving nothing left.
And all Wanda has to say is "No more Phoenix" and it's over.
No where does it say anything baout Wanda's power has anything to do with the Phoenix.
Wanda could remove Jean's mutant powers, hence shes no longer an Omega and unable to house the Phoenix Force for very long.
People who aren't Omega's and try to house the Phoenix are tramuatized by it.
Examples:
Scott in X-men vs Teen Titans
Emma recently in Phoenix WarsongWhen her power is fully active Wanda cannot be killed as poor Hawkeye found out.
Listen what you say may be true but in reality you don't know. And as you said for the most part possibly doing this and in fact we do not know how much effect the Chaoswave really has and how it originated and came about.
Yes it came from Wanda but we do not know exactly how all of a sudden she just turned into God. It is quite plausable she was simply being powered up by someone else, the Phoenix part was an example and I think the most likely if Marvel X-Men writers want to keep playing it up.
Finally like I said there is not enough of a showing to reall describe just how big HOM really is going to play in Marvel History and can easily be changed and certain parts revealed with others being retconned within the next 2 years.
So the basis for your arugement is that SOMETIME in the future Marvel MAY retcon it? Well when they do you can use it. But for now it hasn't been retconned and we have Avengers Dissasembled and the entire House of M storyline to go on and it has allot of on panel feats.
I think we have enough to go on for this one. She turned into a God cause Marvel wanted to turn her into one. She had the power all along she just never fully tapped into it until she lost control. And she used it before to "make" her children. And it could've just been a secondary mutation as well.
Wanda whispers "No more Phoenix" and makes the majority of this forum really really happy.
Originally posted by newjak86Wanda has always had these "chaos powers" her psychotic demeaner is what unlocked her powers to unheard of levels. And she has ALWAYS been a walking plot device anyway lol!
Yes it came from Wanda but we do not know exactly how all of a sudden she just turned into God.
Originally posted by newjak86It may be possible, but to date nothing like this has ever been shown or depicted on pannel, so as of right now, we can not interpret it this way. As this is nothing but oppinion (right now)
It is quite plausable she was simply being powered up by someone else, the Phoenix part was an example and I think the most likely if Marvel X-Men writers want to keep playing it up.
Originally posted by newjak86Again, you may be correct and certain parts of HOM may EVENTUALLY be retconned, but as of now its all cannon. What you have stated is only your oppinion.....
Finally like I said there is not enough of a showing to reall describe just how big HOM really is going to play in Marvel History and can easily be changed and certain parts revealed with others being retconned within the next 2 years.
Originally posted by Galan777I didn't know she always had these powers 🙄
Wanda has always had these "chaos powers" her psychotic demeaner is what unlocked her powers to unheard of levels. And she has ALWAYS been a walking plot device lol!
That doesn't change the fact that she has never shown this type of power or large scale manipualtion before.
It may be possible, but to date nothing like this has ever been shown or depicted on pannel, so as of right now, we can not interpret it this way. As this is nothing but oppinion (right now)Then again the point is you can interpret it this way as there are a number of factors that are unanswered and holes that have been left open that Marvel itself says it will explain as time goes on.
That and even the on panel feats are iffy as I said. For instance someone mentions the Assencion and people are saying that the wave effected everything until it reached Heaven. You just can't do that I mean it was effecting and going through many realities but only ended up effecting one.
Odin has sent shockwaves throughout the Multiverse before is he all of a sudden a Multiversal power above the likes of Eternity. No he isn't
Is this Chaoswave really Omniversal or even Multiversal no. What we do know is that in the end it only ended up effecting the 616 Universe
Again, you may be correct and certain parts of HOM may EVENTUALLY be retconned, but as of now its all cannon. What you have stated is only your oppinion.....An yes it is my opinion that it is such but then again this is yours as well. And listen this isn't some one time event that is never going to be enlightened on again Marvel itself has left holes in the story for MANY different opinions to be in it and has even said there is more to the story.
So yeah m Opinion is just as valid as yours because in reality that is what you have because on panel feats are cannon but then again on panel feats with holes and more coming can be taken with a grain of salt. 😉
Re: Re: Re: White Phoenix VS HOM Scarlet Witch
Originally posted by Galan777
half a year ago? You have been registered about 4 months 😕
However, I belive that Wanda form House of M is powerful.
And the chaos wave is the generated energy from all the universes.
I think (I'm not sure though) that the Living Tribunal could have stoped it.
Originally posted by LordKaos
Wanda's chaos wave was powerful indeed, but Meggan was able to halt it and she is one of the most underrated beings in marvel.
Meggan slowed it down for a few seconds or One panel., she was never able to "halt" it.
To Halt something is to stop it completely.
And she is underrated I agree, thats because she seldom uses her full potential like she did against the Wave.
Originally posted by LordKaos
Jamie pulled Rachel and Betsy to the white hot room because it was untouched by the wave. Betsy saw all her alternate counterparts in the white hot room (the heart of the Phoenix) and they seemed untouched by the wave that was apparently destroying their realities.
So were many other Realities, the WHR just wasn't in its path yet.
Mad Jim Jaspers also Warped the White Hot Room (Heart of the Phoenix) like child's play.
This is the WHR
Jaspers teleported Rachel and Betsy to the Room, then after a short while he begins to Morph the White Hot Room
He appears flying by an image of Captain Britain
Jim Jaspers with total control of the WHR
Jim Warps it into a Crystal like object.
Originally posted by LordKaos
Marvel doesn't pull these stories out of their from nowhere it takes time to make sure they keep things as close to continuity as possible, there is a reason they made sure Endsong happened before HOM, Phoenix would have posed a threat to the entire story. Wanda brought back every mutant who ever died, but she somehow neglected to bring back Jean, that and there was never any mention of her, except when Rachel and Betsy were in the white hot room.
Come on guy, Jean has never faced a Universel destroyer.
Jean has NEVER destroyed, remade or created a Universe On Panel.
What threat? 😂
Originally posted by newjak86
First while throwing out Omniverse and Multiverse sounds great the only reality that was infact changed was 616. Now I know somethings are used to try and explain that the point is we don't know how effective or how big this really was.
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" (more than once she did it)
"You might not even exist anymore in whatever New Reality takes its place"
Originally posted by newjak86
Heck even the Phoenix force has been shown to branch into many of the Multiverses.
VIA the Multi-verse Interface Alignment but, who's counting.
This is before the Phoenix even came into the picture:
It clearly says "when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged... to Create an Energy Matrix."
The Energy fields merge ON THEIR OWN... and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse Align BY THEMSELVES...
AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower",
a less than monumental feat... considering it was the Energy Matrix (ON IT"S OWN) that allows simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.....
Phoenix made a duplicate of the original Tower and it simultaneously duplicated itself across the Multi-verse because of the Interface Alingment.
Bottomline: Without the Interface Alignment, this Feat would Never exist.
Originally posted by newjak86
So here is what we do know that 616 was changed but on what scale we don't even know that. For the most part it was limited to Earth we have no clue as to whether other parts of 616 was effected after the initial showing.
Up top, read.
Originally posted by newjak86
Next what else we know about how things happen we never see any of the higher abstract beings stepping in. We never see Eternity or the Living Tribunal taking notice of this.
Dude, Captain Britain has the Power to Re-Write the Omni-verse.
He's the guy they sent.
Mastermind (NOT the Mutant) was going to REMAKE the Omni-verse in his image, but Excalibur only works if your worthy
"The Sword of Might united with the Amulet of Right, possesses the Power to REMAKE the Cosmos" (Omni-verse)
Brian Braddock becomes the Omniversal Guardian
"With IT (Excalibur) you shall protect the Omni-verse"
The only thing LT is concerned with is Multiversal balance.
That wasn't the case with the Chaos Wave, because the Wave is a Force that just crashes universes into one.
And still, this is how the Wave is considered:
"No more coherence to Causality, Chaos Beyond the comprehension of any Sentience, No matter how Grandiose it's opinion of itself"
Originally posted by newjak86
And with Phoenix Warsong coming out alot of this HOM stuff could be retconned after that really easily.
Warsong already been out, it's not written by Grant Morrison and Phoenix now seems to be controlled through 3 girls.
Same ol' Phoenix
Originally posted by newjak86
You guys may be right but there is alot of room to be wrong as well especially with such a limited event.
Well Jean has never destroyed, remade or created a Universe.
So she loses right there.
