here's an intersting question we have no idea how wanda effected the cosmic being in the HOM we dont even know if they were effected, let alone the requred beings of the 616 univers like eternity and galatcus pheonix has been described as a nessicary part of the universe could wanda's power really rewrite it?
Originally posted by Mr MasterWhere to begin with this.
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" (more than once she did it)"You might not even exist anymore in whatever New Reality takes its place"
VIA the Multi-verse Interface Alignment but, who's counting.
This is before the Phoenix even came into the picture:
It clearly says "when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged... to Create an Energy Matrix."
The Energy fields merge ON THEIR OWN... and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse Align BY THEMSELVES...
AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower",
a less than monumental feat... considering it was the Energy Matrix (ON IT"S OWN) that allows simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.....
Phoenix made a duplicate of the original Tower and it simultaneously duplicated itself across the Multi-verse because of the Interface Alingment.
Bottomline: Without the Interface Alignment, this Feat would Never exist.
Up top, read.
Dude, Captain Britain has the Power to Re-Write the Omni-verse.
He's the guy they sent.
Mastermind (NOT the Mutant) was going to REMAKE the Omni-verse in his image, but Excalibur only works if your worthy
"The Sword of Might united with the Amulet of Right, possesses the Power to REMAKE the Cosmos" (Omni-verse)
Brian Braddock becomes the Omniversal Guardian
"With IT (Excalibur) you shall protect the Omni-verse"
The only thing LT is concerned with is Multiversal balance.
That wasn't the case with the Chaos Wave, because the Wave is a Force that just crashes universes into one.
And still, this is how the Wave is considered:
"No more coherence to Causality, Chaos Beyond the comprehension of any Sentience, No matter how Grandiose it's opinion of itself"Warsong already been out, it's not written by Grant Morrison and Phoenix now seems to be controlled through 3 girls.
Same ol' Phoenix
Well Jean has never destroyed, remade or created a Universe.
So she loses right there.
OK first as you've shown she recreated 616 over and over not anything else so once again only 616 was effected and at the end going by on panel items we never see just how bad the universe was effected and whether most of it was confined to Earth.
Next for great Britain you want to talk of on panel feats since when has that combination ever been shown to recreate the Omni-verse. I don't think it has and guess what he doesn't say he is going to rewrite the Omni-verse he states he can rewrite the cosmos as to how far and to what extent just like the Chaoswave we do not know just that. Let me ask you something who is the guardian of the Universe for 616 its either Adam Warlock or Quasar my mind is drawing a blank right now but ti doesn't matter because non of those are univesal in power anyways point still made. So being made an Omniversal Gaurdian does not equate to Omniversal power less it has been shown that it is.
As for LT he has been shown to get involved enough times that if many universes were threatened he normall attempts to step in and other Abstracts as well like Eternity.
Next as for Warsong it is out my bad I wasn't planning on picking it up but once again it was only one example.
Because already shown and stated in Civil War by writers that HOM and what it truely was about has yet to be completely revealed.
Because of that they left holes and unrevealed items yet to be shown to us.
So as of right now here are the facts concerning the Chaos wave.
It originated from wanda(Who has never shown such power before)
It may have been felt through many universes and even the mutliverse but in the end it still only effected 616 Universe and yet still we do not know how badly. (Heck Odin in a fight has sent Shockwaves thrugh the Multiverse in a fight once again doesn't mean he is Multiversal or even Universal in power.)
Everything else is just speculation and throwing vague and sometimes putting things together that don't belong together much like GS did with the Phoenix.
So before everyone blows the Chaoswave out of proportion like the Cosmic Bunny of Whirlyspat everyon take a deep breath. Realize that we really don't know enough about the wave to really gauge its power correctly especially sine the writers still have more to give us.
Originally posted by xjustice69x
well said newjak86 i agree
However, I have never read the series (House of M) but I heard a couple of times over that the Excalibur absorbed the Chaos wave.
And the Chaos wave was going to affect "all realities".
However, Beyonder was not millions of times stronger than a Multi-verse.
His power equalled the rest of the Multi-verse (All the universes) combinded millions of times.
Why just millions of times? -- Becuase Molecule man had a fraction of Beyonders power and was present in the Multi-verse.
Omni-verse (Now) = All universes (infinity) in Marvel
Multi-verse (1980s) = All universes (infinity) in Marvel, exept for the Beyond realm.
Beyonder was all there was in the Multi-verse and Beyond.
I would put him up with TOAA/God.
I am still unsure about Thanos in the End, because he stated that he only destroyed a universe. -- But I am working on it.
And the Phoenix Fanboys agree, while the rest of us stand in shock, amazement and a shitload of pity.
Wanda's power extends beyond Phoeinx's. Wanda's feats extend beyond Phoenix's.
Wanda could turn Jean from an Omega mutant to human with a thought.
Wanda says no more Phoenix, The Phoenix Fanboys cry and cry while we smile and laugh.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
She always had the power, she just didn't realize it and shes yused it before long ago when she first made her children (of course I already mentioned this earlier in the thread and no one reads)And she really effected Genis-vell who is definately on the cosmic scale.
"No More Phoenix" 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUAnd what did the UN do again? Ohhhh yeah, it destroyed and recreated the Multiverse........ The Phoenix has been proven as simply a Universal force, Wanda is no less then Multiversal in nature.
. . . Phoenix would lose.
But not as badly as the most here thinks.
Wanda's wave is slightly above the Nullifier, maybe even the Infinity Gauntlet . . . But no futher.
So yes the Phoenix looses,
MORE then most think 😉
Originally posted by Galan777
And what did the UN do again? Ohhhh yeah, it destroyed and recreated the Multiverse........ The Phoenix has been proven as simply a Universal force, Wanda is no less then Multiversal in nature.So yes the Phoenix looses,
[B]MORE
then most think 😉 [/B]
Originally posted by lando005
am i the only one who finds it weird people are saying wanda's more powerful than the universal abstracts?
It's not wierd,
because Wanda REMADE (RECREATED) ETERNITY.
Now even though we have non believers even though I presented the conclusive EVIDENCE of her REMAKING Reality 616, I see the dude writing "were not sure to what extent 616 was Remade when it CLEARLY says:
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" again again again!
"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"
As for that other dude that gave us a monologue of his vison or interpretation of the On Panel events, I have a "shut that boy down surprise"....
So he disputing the FACT that Excalibur and the Amulet of Right together can REMAKE the OMNI-VERSE.
I've prepared the Scans,
that SHOW MERLIN (while possessing Both Excalibur and the Amulet) and Roma casually playing a game of Chess, and the Chess Board is the Multi-verse and the Chess pieces are beings representing UNIVERSES.
Merlin manipulating EVERY evnt that takes place in the Omni-verse.
Even funnier than that, they show MERLIN in his Realm with MANY Chess Boards and each BOARD Representing a Multi-verse.
Anyways, tomorrow I "shut down the non-believers"....
Originally posted by lando005
am i the only one who finds it weird people are saying wanda's more powerful than the universal abstracts?
You just said it yourself right there, UNIVERSAL, Phoenix's powers effect the universe only.
Wanda's power is Omniversal, she can effect everything in EVERY universe.
No more phoenix, could there BE any sweeter words? 😛
Originally posted by Mr MasterOnce again where is the on panel showings of lets say Silver surfer being effected or Galactus being effected where are they oh yeah they aren't there. we don't even see actually it effecting Eternity the being we see two panels saying she remade 616 over and over and then we never just how bad and conclusive those statements are.
It's not wierd,because Wanda REMADE (RECREATED) ETERNITY.
Now even though we have non believers even though I presented the conclusive EVIDENCE of her REMAKING Reality 616, I see the dude writing "were not sure to what extent 616 was Remade when it CLEARLY says:
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" again again again!
"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"
As for that other dude that gave us a monologue of his vison or interpretation of the On Panel events, I have a "shut that boy down surprise"....
So he disputing the FACT that Excalibur and the Amulet of Right together can REMAKE the OMNI-VERSE.
I've prepared the Scans,
that SHOW MERLIN (while possessing Both Excalibur and the Amulet) and Roma casually playing a game of Chess, and the Chess Board is the Multi-verse and the Chess pieces are beings representing UNIVERSES.
Merlin manipulating EVERY evnt that takes place in the Omni-verse.
Even funnier than that, they show MERLIN in his Realm with MANY Chess Boards and each BOARD Representing a Multi-verse.
Anyways, tomorrow I "shut down the non-believers"....
As for this other dudes monolouge and that "shut down boy surprise" weren't you the one that said simple representations don't mean jack like when Jean Grey was holding the universe or as you put not actually holding a universe just its representation.
So basically your going to show me scans of things that GS tried to pull off again.
Tried to edit this in but I ran out of time.
Edit: By the way I'm going to be a doubter until the full story is out when a true estimate of how bad the Chaoswave really was and not some half baked idea involving artifacts that can remake the Omniverse on a whim(haven't even seen this) being weilded by a much lesser being then the person your going to show me as solid proof. at least with GS he gave me a scan of Jean doing said feat not someone else who is remarkably more powerful than the person who actually did it.
And rammbling on about Omniversal power based on a few on panel feats where in the end only 616 was effected and only 616 was shown to be made over and over.
Because at the end of this no matter what you say its only going to be ranting because thats all you've got because you don't know the whole story and unless you work at Marvel your not going to know before me what was going on.
Originally posted by newjak86
Once again where is the on panel showings of lets say Silver surfer being effected or Galactus being effected where are they oh yeah they aren't there. we don't even see actually it effecting Eternity the being we see two panels saying she remade 616 over and over and then we never just how bad and conclusive those statements are.As for this other dudes monolouge and that "shut down boy surprise" weren't you the one that said simple representations don't mean jack like when Jean Grey was holding the universe or as you put not actually holding a universe just its representation.
So basically your going to show me scans of things that GS tried to pull off again.
Didn't Roma show everybody the effects of the Chaos Wave on the Omniverse had Captain Britan not sealed the breach in 24 hours..?
It says the alterations were on a global scale...which intially they probably were...this probably cause the breach...however later on in Exiles she is described as remaking the 616 Universe many times.
Exiles....remaking 616 Again...
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4126/wanad2jy7.jpg
