Wow, I can't be offline to long I see, immediately my favorite FANBOY goes ape shit with exaggerations and straight up LIES.
Let's get started shall we.
The Phoenix Force in it's NATURAL STATE is the SPARK that ignites a Big Bang cyclically for a Universe when it's time comes.
The Phoenix AVATARS including the White Phoenix of the Crown, like JEAN GREY, have never Destroyed, Remade or Created a Universe.
I CHALLENGE you to prove me wrong.
Originally posted by Ethereal
I remember eternity being re-born along with other abstracts because of the phoenix force- the primal force--
This poor soul has been obviously fooled by the FANBOY King claiming that Eternity and the Major Abstracts are reborn in these Big Bangs that the Phoenix Force in it's NATURAL STATE ignites, this is a LIE.
"Forces such as ENTROPY, OBLIVION, DEATH and LIFE (ETERNITY) - THEY REMAIN CONSTANTS through ANY Big Bang"
1 Down.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force is beyond Eternity.
And yet, it has NEVER Destroyed, Remade or Created a Universe On Panel.
Give me a break with these illustrations of unknowns telling us what the Phoenix Force is or what it can do.
Let's SEE IT ON PANEL, DOING IT.... Good luck on finding that issue. LOL.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Eternity is just the M Body of the universe.
More LIES and the Same ol Gibberish from the FANBOY King.
Eterntiy is the Universe, an Aspect of Multi-Eternity
The UNIVERSE materializing into ETERNITY before Galactus
Gamora Enters ETERNITY and ends up INSIDE the UNIVERSE
The UNIVERSE materializing Into ETERNITY before Strange
Everything is Eternity, those who are there around Dr Strange, see Reality as Eternity
When Thanos with the IG became the Universe, it was ETERNITY'S place he took.
Continues in the Next post....
continues...
The Scan clearly says, "The ASPECT of ALL There Is"..... NOT the Universe.
WHAT IS ALL There Is?
Roma Oversees the Entire Multi-verse personally,
And the Omni-verse with her Father Merlin.
Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse)
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Without the Forces involvement in reality, there would be nothing but a lifeless void.
Blah Blah Blah...
And then 5 Cosmic Containment Units come along and CREATE a 616 UNIVERSE without the need of the Force.
Actually just ONE Cosmic Containment Unit can do the job:
Thanos with ONE Unit CREATES and BECOMES a UNIVERSE
2 Down...
Let's continue ey,
I saw another poor soul claiming that the Phoenix Force had something to do with Galactus's Origin:
Galactus's Origin has been depicted THREE times On Panel, NEVER ONCE, was Phoenix mentioned.
If you can find me just ONE comic where this is drawn, I'll agree with you, but since I know your basing this idea on bios or handbooks I know you can't.
Tell me where if anywhere does it mention Phoenix supposedly "enabling Galen to incubate in the Cosmic Egg"....how about even JUST Saving Galactus...
This is the ORIGINAL depiction of Galactus's ORIGIN.
This is the SECOND time they depicted Galactus's Origin On Panel.
And this is the Third:
See anything different, yea me neither.
In ALL THREE instances, Eternity or the sentience of the Universe saved Galactus NOT Phoenix, the biatch isn't even Mentioned.
By the way, Do not be confused by the Third depiction, where the sentience is called "the ENIGMA FORCE"
The Enigma Force is what powers Captain Universe, and Captain Universe is the ESSENCE of the UNIVERSE, if He DIES...EVERYONE DIES.
Look hard...and realize Phoenix is NOT even mentioned during the Galactus history lesson.
3 Down...
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It states that she can survive beyond the rift and utilise the energies there. The energies beyond reality.
AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
WHERE does it say Meggan was "utilising the energies there"? Or the "energies beyond reality"?
This is why you get attacked, because you just make shit up, even worse you have the BALLS to twist the On Panel Statements.
"Only She can claim the Pan-Dimensional Power of the Beyond for her own"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
That does not equate to her using the powers of the Beyonders who unfortunately for your argument exist in the Negative Zone as per current continuity.
And WHAT do you think the Negative Zone is you momo?
"The CROSS ROADS of INFINITY" = "PAN-DIMENSIONAL"
Go look up the word PAN- my child.
There's a BUNCH of UNIVERSES within the N-ZONE
"A New Universe, which can be reached through the NEGATIVE ZONE - the CROSSROADS of INFINITY"
WHAT does PAN-DIMENSIONAL mean?
MANY DIMENSIONS (UNIVERSES) in ONE section (the Negative Zone)
Through the NEGATIVE ZONE, you can reach MANY UNIVERSES
What do we have here:
"a LIGHTLESS UNIVERSE!....You SEE? Now we shift to a SECOND one!"
"we're right on the edge of ALL REALITIES"
'before us lies our Final UNIVERSE"
Coincidentally, the BEYONDERS are in a "LIGHTLESS UNIVERSE" within the Negative Zone (a PAN-DIMENSIONAL Reality)
Didn't they just pass a Lightless Universe? hmmm...
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What omiversal madness did the wave cause? The only damage the wave caused was to Otherworld. One dimemsion.
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing DEVASTATION to BRANES (Universes) ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING"
"Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
And 4 Down...
GO READ COMICS
proof of extant's keen debating prowess and tremendous and informative additions to this thread:
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Wanda could wipe out the multiverese and the Phoenix itself instantainiously.
😆
in an instant, eh? is that why roma et al,. had TONS of time to formulate a plan to stop the wave? hmm?
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Okay, peitro told her what to do with the wave, that shows control.She knew they were comming to deal with her, so she released the wave.
hysterical
so do you STILL claim she can control the wave, genius? look back at the thread and see how many people agree with you that she can control the wave. gs, masters and myself may not agree on much, but even all THREE of agree she CANNOT control the wave. incidentally, if you could find the scan that SHOWS wanda VOLUNTARILY releasing the chaos wave, that would be cool, because it has never been shown in this thread -- i looked through it and you have claimed repeatedly that is DOES exist and that it HAS been shown.
so i guess that makes you utterly wrong in one case, and a liar in another because as i said, you claimed that the scans existed that showed her releasing the wave.
to recap: extant claims that wanda VOLUNTARILY released the wave (and claims there are scans to back this up) AND claims that she has control over the wave. to such a dgree apparently that she can . . . ( 😂 ) wipe out the MULTIVERSE instantaneously.
but WE'RE all living in a delusion and know nothing. 🙄
aside from insults and a lifetime's worth of stupidity, you've brought nothing to this (or as far as i can see ANY) thread. not one single scan, not one single proposition that was not ALREADY put forth by someone else -- and even then you don't copy the RIGHT ideas!! hhahahahahha!!!
in a word extant, you are pitiful. good for a laugh because your level of idiocy is not easily attainable and should be appreciated in and of itself for what it is, but pitiful nonetheless.
for the umpteenth time: shut the hell up, sycophant.
😄
And on the issue of HOW the BREACH was csealed.
This is what the TEAR in CAUSALITY really looked like before the PIS was thrown in
Then a bunch of Sentinels channel ALL their Power through the Omega
Then Psylocke and Rachel shield the rest from the Omega blast, and a huge explosion takes place that seemingly destroys everything around
Then MYSTERIOUSLY, the TEAR in CAUSALITY becomes no bigger than a Human being (PIS to the 5th degree)
"the BREACH, For some STRANGE Reason it's SMALLER" (Yea, it's called PIS darling)
Whatever, the bottom line is:
"Do it ROMA, For ALL OUR SAKES, Do it Now"
Had the Chaos Wave entered through the RIFT, the OMNI-VERSE would have been OBLITERATED into CHAOS
As for Phoenix, what the heck has Phoenix ever done?
Even the only Feats my child can bring to the table can NOT be completely attributed to her.
1. On the supposedly REPAIRING the Mkraan Crystal Feat:
When the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal was REPAIRED by Phoenix, she NEEDED the rest of the X-Men to do it
Here Phoenix Tries to FIX the Lattice Alone
"But it's NOWHERE NEAR good enough"
and Phoenix does NOT "contain" the power of the N-Galaxy that does the destroying.
"a Network of interlocking Stasis Fields NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy"....she was only able to knit the interlocking Stasis Fields back together
Phoenix even says, their "ONLY Hope is to Knit the Lattice Back Together BEFORE it PASSES the Point of No Return"
Actually Phoenix was getting ABSORBED by the N-Galaxy
With the Life-Force of ALL the X-Men she Anchors herself to Reality, to avoid being ABSORBED
"the Patterns of her life of the X-Men's LIVES, BECOME ONE with the Lattice"
"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"
ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.
"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"
Xavier its Crown and Colossus its Base.
EACH X-Man has a Place, EACH a purpose Greater than himself or herself.
After the job is done, Even with the HELP of ALL the X-Men, Phoenix FALLS UNCONSCIOUS from Exhaustion
AND for the Record... This was a UNIVERSAL Feat at the time, for Phoenix and ALL those X-Men that HAD to HELP her in order to accomplish it.
Ok here's more....
On the Tower Projection, supposedly a Multiversal Feat 😆
This is before the Phoenix even came into the picture:
It clearly says "when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged... to Create an Energy Matrix."
The Energy fields merge ON THEIR OWN... and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse Align BY THEMSELVES...
AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower",
a less than monumental feat... considering it was the Energy Matrix (ON IT"S OWN) that allows simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.....
Phoenix made a duplicate of the original Tower and it simultaneously duplicated itself across the Multi-verse because of the Interface Alingment.
Bottomline: Without the Interface Alignment, this Feat would Never exist.
On the Phoenix supposedly manipulating the Universe Feat AHAHAHAHA!!!
Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future?"
It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" (the FUTURE)
Did she not just ask, "is this the Future?"
And was she not just responded to with, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it?"
NOW:
It continues to say, "Patient will die unless internal heart damage repaired"
The "Patient" is the FUTURE still at this point EVIDENTLY.
Which is why Phoenix says, "But it didn't have to END like that, my Friends didn't deserve that." (some even died),
DIDN'T DESERVE WHAT?
THIS....(the FUTURE THAT IS NOW) The events of Here Comes Tomorrow like Grant Morrison said.
WHEN Phoenix Amputated the Future it was only to DISINFECT the Future
Here Phoenix says, "Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue...I had to Amputate the whole Future"
Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"
We know that by Phoenix cutting off the Future, the Infection, which was Sublime, was destroyed,
but the EVENTS that took place, have NOT been changed.
(hence the Future THAT is NOW, is STILL, Here Comes Tomorrow)
OK NOW THIS is WHERE Jean is REPAIRING the FUTURE she damage while DISINFECTING it.
It then says, "No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot
This is ACTUALLY the process taking place of a FUTURE being Repaired,
The "the Claw" takes the Future into the "HOSPITAL, White Hot Room"
As You Can SEE, around the Pink Crystal Power is Flowing, that's Phoenix REPAIRING the FUTURE
THEN
Jean loses concentration "IN THERE" (Inside the White Hot Room) and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE QUICKLY"
"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating) Turn (some kinda White Hot Room code word for, "keep on fixing"😉
MAKE BETTER WHAT?
FUTURE!!!
HOW can Phoenix be INSIDE the White Hot Room, while being clearly OUTSIDE it when she says, "LOST CONCENTRATION IN THERE"?
The White Hot Room, is the HEART of the Phoenix, that's HOW:
Continues in the next post...
continues...
AFTER Phoenix Repairs the Future in the White Hot Room (Her Heart)
NEXT PANEL:
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training, NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms?".......
of WHAT Atoms?
The ONLY action I've seen, is A Future being Repaired.
It's actually talking about the FUTURE that was just Repaired.
continues...
When the Future is taken away, it's REPAIRED with in the White Hot Room or Hospital by Phoenix as I presented earlier.
THEN Phoenix is given a visualization of the Universe that Represents the FUTURE or unchanged events of Here Comes Tomorrow.
AGAIN:
Phoenix is CLUELESS as to WHAT this is, or WHAT to do with it.
Jean says, "Did I have to FIX something that was dying?
What is it?"
It tells her, "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"
Fine.....Now WHAT does that mean?....Jean Grey DOESN'T KNOW either.
AM I LYING? LOOK AT THE SCAN!!!
"But...but WHAT's that supposed to mean?
Phoenix asked, "but what's that supposed to mean?"
AFTER She was told it's a "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"
Now, it TELLS Phoenix WHAT THAT MEANS,
"That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..
Is it saying,
"This Universe needs to be Fixed in anyway?" NO!
"This Universe is injured or damaged and needs to be repaired?" NO!
"This Universe needs a Future? NO!
So WHAT does it SAY WHEN Jean ASKED "but what's that supposed to mean?"
"That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..
(This is the OUTCOME of Here Comes Tomorrow)
NOW, to Change that OUTCOME, Phoenix did NOT manipulate the Universe.
AM I LYING?
Here is GRANT MORRISON'S and company telling us HOW Phoenix CHANGED that Future.
Just like in the Comic book, which anyone can see as plain as day.
She actually went to the past and forced Scott to be with Emma
So INSTEAD of THIS Ending:
We NOW have THIS Ending:
wow i was considering submitting an essay of my own but i cant live up to the standards by the previous 23 pages😄 that being said i think we are all over thinking this here...at the end of the day any phoenix avatar and wanda are just high yeild reality warpers...thats the common denominator..the chaos wave was threatening to destroy all that is by means of chain reactions, if the PF wanted to do the same it would have to absorb one galaxy..perhaps even a universe at a time...however i still maintain that it would be a stalemate...you know the whole yin and yang thing? its obvious that the PF is a loose representative of order and the wave in its name already is indicative of chaos therefore i see them as opposite sides of the same coin like death and eternity.....oblivion and infinty......again i must stress HIGH YIELD REALITY WARPERS thats what we're dealing with here...c'mon just call it a tie ppl so we can all be at rest
Originally posted by manjaro
at the end of the day any phoenix avatar and wanda are just high yeild reality warpers...thats the common denominator..
"common denominator" my ass.
"At the end of the day" when you start READING Comics, you'll learn that Phoenix has NEVER Created, Remade or Destroyed a Universe
So how your equating Wanda and Phoenix, I just don't know.
Wanda RE-CREATED the 616 REALITY many times over.
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" AGIAN, AGAIN, AGAIN!
"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"
Originally posted by manjaro
the chaos wave was threatening to destroy all that is by means of chain reactions, if the PF wanted to do the same it would have to absorb one galaxy..
Wonder HOW ANYONE will Destroy ALL that IS, by absorbing ONE Galaxy 😆
Originally posted by manjaro
perhaps even a universe at a time...
Unfortunately Phoenix has NEVER absorbed or even destroyed even just ONE Universe.
Originally posted by manjaro
however i still maintain that it would be a stalemate...
That's because you don't READ COMICS.
Originally posted by Ethereal
^^ I was just joking about that phoenix comment, it was just a mock at a special someone. I have most of those comics and even scanned alot of the same stuff myself.. Either way, I guess noone can argue with 23 pages of scans..
My bad friend,
I thought your mind was polluted with a cartain someone's fantasies, (not that it would be your fault, many innocents have fallen victim) glad to see that isn't the case though.
Rock on 😎
Originally posted by Mr Master
"common denominator" my ass."At the end of the day" when you start READING Comics, you'll learn that Phoenix has NEVER Created, Remade or Destroyed a Universe
So how your equating Wanda and Phoenix, I just don't know.
Wanda RE-CREATED the 616 REALITY many times over.
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" AGIAN, AGAIN, AGAIN!
"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"
Wonder HOW ANYONE will Destroy ALL that IS, by absorbing ONE Galaxy 😆
Unfortunately Phoenix has NEVER absorbed or even destroyed even just ONE Universe.
That's because you don't READ COMICS.
you f ****ing kidding dude?😄. are you trying to take me on too..first of all "to absorb one galaxy..perhaps even a universe at a time." is exactly what it implies she would have to destroy a galaxy at a time...or a universe at a time... to do broad band damage to the multiverse..the only way she can immediately threaten the cosmos, is if she destroys the M'kraan crsytal, which im sure you know is the nexus of all realities...Wanda just took a short cut... if you think that the PF cant destroy a universe then you have serious problems my friend
#2 im sorry bro, and i really hate to break this to you, but you're really gonna have to let go of this again and again thing...she remade 616 twice...when HOM started, and when she said "no more mutants" there was no other time..and thats it... that shot of beak was after the exiles had gone back to 616 and noticed that the world was changed, and run by magneto but b4 they could do anything about it they bumped into proteus then they had an adventure with him, and it was during this time, when Beak's time as a member of the team drew to a close they sent him back home...and that was the point when he was about to be transferred from the Panoptichron to 616 he said "Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"..and he arrived just in time for the second warp where he promptly lost his powers....
#3 that other shot where you're showing different bright lights, thats not over and over either...those panels depicted how different ppl were seeing the result of M-Day from thier frame of reference...the proverbial "where were you when.....?" kind of situation and i believe it was all from the same issue in the "Mutopia" arc when it was wrapping up..like i said before debating is cool but dont try to manipulate choice scans to bolster your argument, ppl have accused me of a lot of things , but never that i dont read enuff comics😄 trust me...
now i dont want you to sail off into another tirade like you did with GS this is not a retaliation on my part we're just trying to get things straight here so just be cool..
#4 lastly you may not rate the Phoenix but she does have universal destructive power, else the Shi'ar would have never seen it fit to have her eradicated, prompting the Xmen and the Imperial guard to lock in a battle that was for the fate of the universe..in the same Dark phoenix saga she destroyed an entire solar system just like that..as if it was nothing.. im sure if she focused her energies a whole galaxy or even a universe woudlnt be too far behind...
the point was to show you that Wanda's wave wasnt threatening the multiverse with outright destructive power, her shit was mucking causality that would set off a series of irreporable series of chain reactions...which would destroy everything..Phoenix on the other hand
can just lash out with its power in one broad stroke and f **** shit
royally, and if the Phoenix destroys the Mkraan crystal it would create a similar chain reaction across the multiverse, so Wanda's chaos wave was just doing a more straight forward version of this mucking with the 'branes that hold reality together...so long story short a full chaos powered Wanda was just bumped up to the Phoenix's level at best..this whole chaos wave thing is impressive but i wouldnt put it above the PF or below it for that matter. so i say its a stalemate
