If you're talking about Mike bringing up the strength of Pre-Crisis Supes HV and saying that Post-Crisis Supes was likely a lot weaker, then you really need to bone up on your reading comprehension.
Or, you know, you could actually link to actual posts where Mike supposedly does what you're accusing him of. Just a suggestion.
Originally posted by Astner
True enough, it shows that my perception isn't as restricted as yours. There is nothing hindering people from debating outside of the OBD, either on a completely different site or simply in another forum.
So first you say you don't want to return to the OBD because we use insults instead of arguments. Then when I point out that's against the rules, you say we do this on other forums. So you don't want to post in the OBD because we might insult you on other forums? 😬
This entire page. The thread has nothing to do with Pre-crisis Superman, there are no requests or such. Yet you make an elaborate explanation of his powers and capabilities. You might as well have addressed Wolverine in that thread because he'd have equal relevance.
It's called a tangent, the topic of discussion had drifted to PC Supes, and furthermore, that's not even what I asked, because in those posts I specifically noted that I was talking about Pre-Crisis Superman, whereas you claimed that I use Pre-Crisis feats and try to say that they are canon for Post-Crisis Superman.
I never did, not even as an indication. The fact remains that Earth-1 Superman isn't the mainstream version. So instead of putting words in my mouth address what I actually say. Or better yet go back to the OBD where you're welcome.
Earth 1 and New Earth Superman are the same character. 🙄
Of course you're just venting because Tyrant and his merry band of trolls finally got put in their place so your little gig with them is over.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So first you say you don't want to return to the OBD because we use insults instead of arguments. Then when I point out that's against the rules, you say we do this on other forums.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So you don't want to post in the OBD because we might insult you on other forums? 😬
But when we're at the subject. I have no trouble with childish remarks and charades, I can ignore that, however what's lacking is the content.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's called a tangent, the topic of discussion had drifted to PC Supes, and furthermore, that's not even what I asked, because in those posts I specifically noted that I was talking about Pre-Crisis Superman, whereas you claimed that I use Pre-Crisis feats and try to say that they are canon for Post-Crisis Superman.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Earth 1 and New Earth Superman are the same character. 🙄
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Of course you're just venting because Tyrant and his merry band of trolls finally got put in their place so your little gig with them is over.
Either way Mike, I place no effort in building or restoring my e-rep. But for the sake of your own which you value so you might want to drop that argument before you realize it to be an alien concept to you.
Originally posted by Naija boy
HERALDS VS Z FIGHTERSSilver Surfer and Morg vs Goku,vegeta, Frieza, Kid buu, Trunks and Gohan.
I thought of adding stardust to the herald side but that would make it too lopsided.
Goku and Frieza vs Silver Surfer and Morg
Frieza>Morg
Goku and Silver Surfer, really dont know.
Good fight but I would give it to the Z fighters. Much more going for them.
Originally posted by carver9
Goku and Frieza vs Silver Surfer and MorgFrieza>Morg
Goku and Silver Surfer, really dont know.
Good fight but I would give it to the Z fighters. Much more going for them.
Err, frieza not greater than morg at all. And surfer is definitely more powerful than Goku. Hence the reason that i added alot of other Z fighters. Even then it would be tough (it could be realistically argued that surfer would solo all of them).
Originally posted by Astner
Is that what you were trying to point out? It would've helped if you removed some segments of what you quoted instead of quoting three points but only refer to one.
The rest was inane babbling, so there was only one point to address. What else did you think I meant?
That's not what I referred to.
But when we're at the subject. I have no trouble with childish remarks and charades, I can ignore that, however what's lacking is the content.
Funny, I could say the exact same thing about you.
So the topic drifted to pre-crisis Superman even though you were the first to mention him in that thread for no reason, as he had nothing to do with the thread?
Blatant lie. The OP mentioned PC Superman in a quote on the second page: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=4094292&postcount=35
Pre-Crisis Superman was mentioned directly by a poster named "prateek" on the third page: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=4134418&postcount=56
Not in the current 52, the mainstream universe is Earth-0 (New Earth, DC universe).
The history of which carried over from Earth - 1 before Infinite Crisis but after COIE.
You mistake my identity for you own. You're the one venting, trying to restore whatever part of your ego that Tyrant appearance broke.
You kidding? I only recall actually responding to the guy once or twice, as I mostly missed his raids on the OBD and I've never posted on his forum. I flamed him once just for the fun of it. However I did read a post of his where he talked about you being practically his best friend and supporter.
I didn't speak with Tyrant for weeks before he was banned. I requested to be banned in the realization that the forum was going to be empty after the mass banning--most of which don't have anything to do with Tyrant--resulting from the admins deciding to impose the rules even stricter. The forum was weak in activity before the event, there's no point in remaining and I'd like to call the banning as an act of demonstration.
So then you just migrate somewhere else to start your shit elsewhere. Typical.
Either way Mike, I place no effort in building or restoring my e-rep. But for the sake of your own which you value so you might want to drop that argument before you realize it to be an alien concept to you.
Considering that before you left the OBD most of your posts and actions were basically just posting things for the purpose of being contrary and getting people pissed off at you (i.e. TROLLING), it's a foregone conclusion that you don't want people to like you.
Goku and Frieza vs Silver Surfer and MorgFrieza>Morg
Wrong. Frieza has to use a chain reaction to destroy a planet, Morg could do it instantly if he wanted, in addition Morg is FTL and has a much wider variety of powers that Frieza couldn't even comprehend, as well as much higher power output (when he was fighting Surfer the clash of their energies destroyed not only the planet they were on but its moons as well, due to the inverse - square law that would have taken exponentially more energy which is more than any canon DBZ character has ever demonstrated).
Goku and Silver Surfer, really dont know.
Wow, this is almost progressive for you. I was expecting "black hair Goku beats him to death with his dick" or some such stupidity.
Still you're wrong as Surfer's power output, versatility, and speed is far too great for any DBZ character, in fact if he doesn't do anything stupid he could easily solo DBZverse.
Good fight but I would give it to the Z fighters. Much more going for them.
Z fighters:
- Most can't breathe in space
- Massively hypersonic (aka mach 1000 or a bit higher)
- Blasts can reach at least as far as the moon
- Energy output enough to destroy an earth - sized planet or possibly a bigger planet
- No or very little resistance to powers like transmutation, time manipulation, black holes, energy siphon, etc.
Heralds:
- All can easily survive in space
- Massively FTL (at least millions of times FTL)
- Attacks can reach across star systems
- Energy output enough to destroy stars, create black holes, etc.
- Possess transmutation, time manipulation, telepathy, vastly superior energy manipulation, etc.
Anyone with an unbiased view would find the outcome obvious.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The rest was inane babbling, so there was only one point to address. What else did you think I meant?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Funny, I could say the exact same thing about you.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Blatant lie. The OP mentioned PC Superman in a quote on the second page: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=4094292&postcount=35Pre-Crisis Superman was mentioned directly by a poster named "prateek" on the third page: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=4134418&postcount=56
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The history of which carried over from Earth - 1 before Infinite Crisis but after COIE.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You kidding? I only recall actually responding to the guy once or twice, as I mostly missed his raids on the OBD and I've never posted on his forum. I flamed him once just for the fun of it. However I did read a post of his where he talked about you being practically his best friend and supporter.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So then you just migrate somewhere else to start your shit elsewhere. Typical.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Considering that before you left the OBD most of your posts and actions were basically just posting things for the purpose of being contrary and getting people pissed off at you (i.e. TROLLING), it's a foregone conclusion that you don't want people to like you.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Err, frieza not greater than morg at all. And surfer is definitely more powerful than Goku. Hence the reason that i added alot of other Z fighters. Even then it would be tough (it could be realistically argued that surfer would solo all of them).
And this is where we disagree.
Frieza, Morg. First thing Morg wont even be landing a lick on frieza since frieza combat speed is far superior. Frieza punching power is greater (creating shockwaves with punches). He is clearly more powerful. This is a none fight.
Goku vs Surfer, Goku is just as powerful and his combat speed is far Superior. I agree, Surfer flight is greater but Goku fighting speed is on a different level.
Goku/Frieza wins this 8/10.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The rest was inane babbling, so there was only one point to address. What else did you think I meant?Funny, I could say the exact same thing about you.
Blatant lie. The OP mentioned PC Superman in a quote on the second page: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=4094292&postcount=35
Pre-Crisis Superman was mentioned directly by a poster named "prateek" on the third page: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=4134418&postcount=56
The history of which carried over from Earth - 1 before Infinite Crisis but after COIE.
You kidding? I only recall actually responding to the guy once or twice, as I mostly missed his raids on the OBD and I've never posted on his forum. I flamed him once just for the fun of it. However I did read a post of his where he talked about you being practically his best friend and supporter.
So then you just migrate somewhere else to start your shit elsewhere. Typical.
Considering that before you left the OBD most of your posts and actions were basically just posting things for the purpose of being contrary and getting people pissed off at you (i.e. TROLLING), it's a foregone conclusion that you don't want people to like you.
Wrong. Frieza has to use a chain reaction to destroy a planet, Morg could do it instantly if he wanted, in addition Morg is FTL and has a much wider variety of powers that Frieza couldn't even comprehend, as well as much higher power output (when he was fighting Surfer the clash of their energies destroyed not only the planet they were on but its moons as well, due to the inverse - square law that would have taken exponentially more energy which is more than any canon DBZ character has ever demonstrated).
Wow, this is almost progressive for you. I was expecting "black hair Goku beats him to death with his dick" or some such stupidity.
Still you're wrong as Surfer's power output, versatility, and speed is far too great for any DBZ character, in fact if he doesn't do anything stupid he could easily solo DBZverse.
Z fighters:
- Most can't breathe in space
- Massively hypersonic (aka mach 1000 or a bit higher)
- Blasts can reach at least as far as the moon
- Energy output enough to destroy an earth - sized planet or possibly a bigger planet
- No or very little resistance to powers like transmutation, time manipulation, black holes, energy siphon, etc.Heralds:
- All can easily survive in space
- Massively FTL (at least millions of times FTL)
- Attacks can reach across star systems
- Energy output enough to destroy stars, create black holes, etc.
- Possess transmutation, time manipulation, telepathy, vastly superior energy manipulation, etc.Anyone with an unbiased view would find the outcome obvious.
Im not even going comment on this post, everything you said was pointless.
Originally posted by carver9Even if Gokou is faster than Surfer in h2h combat. Why does that even matter? Surfer doesn't even need to fight h2h. He has shields that Gokou is in no way breaking, he can drain Gokou of energy, he has omni-directional blasts that Gokou isn't surviving, he can create black holes that Gokou can't get away from. Surfer doesn't need to be a faster fighter to win. Not when he can defend, and attack at the same time.
Goku vs Surfer, Goku is just as powerful and his combat speed is far Superior. I agree, Surfer flight is greater but Goku fighting speed is on a different level.Goku/Frieza wins this 8/10.
Mike, I don't see any point in continuing this debate. It has no relevance to the topic at hand and mercilessly shreds the last bit of interest for other members who're interested in it. If you want to have the last say in the matter, fine I could care less. But I won't respond to you unless your comment serves the thread.
Originally posted by Kento
Even if Gokou is faster than Surfer in h2h combat. Why does that even matter? Surfer doesn't even need to fight h2h. He has shields that Gokou is in no way breaking, he can drain Gokou of energy, he has omni-directional blasts that Gokou isn't surviving, he can create black holes that Gokou can't get away from. Surfer doesn't need to be a faster fighter to win. Not when he can defend, and attack at the same time.
The only real argument you made during this post was the energy drain (which I cant see happening since DBZ character have complete control of their energy) and the black hole which I cant see pulling goku in. Blast, we have seen what blast vs goku does which ends up with him winking through them and ending up behind his enemy or him simply slappinig the blast out of the air.
Originally posted by carver9
The only real argument you made during this post was the energy drain (which I cant see happening since DBZ character have complete control of their energy) and the black hole which I cant see pulling goku in. Blast, we have seen what blast vs goku does which ends up with him winking through them and ending up behind his enemy or him simply slapping the blast out of the air.
About draining energy, Goku already faced robots like Doctor Gero and Android 20 which could drain energy. But since I don't know how SS drains energy, I can't say anything yet. But black hole... Carver, we haven't seen how Goku would fight back if his enemy uses a black hole. What makes you think Goku could handle it?
Slapping the energy? Maybe Goku can. He showed it several times. even Fat Buu's kamehameha like energy blast.
Originally posted by carver9That's funny. I recall several characters being vulnerable to Gero and 19's energy draining powers, including Goku. To argue that Goku has more control over his energy than a wielder of the Power Cosmic is hilarious.
The only real argument you made during this post was the energy drain (which I cant see happening since DBZ character have complete control of their energy) and the black hole which I cant see pulling goku in. Blast, we have seen what blast vs goku does which ends up with him winking through them and ending up behind his enemy or him simply slappinig the blast out of the air.
... How would a black hole not pull Goku in? Even light gets pulled in, and you even admitted that Goku cannot fly at lightspeed, which is what matters.
Not one character in DBZ has the same power output as the Silver Surfer, a single blast would kill him.
Originally posted by carver9No the real argument their is how is Gokou going to get past his shields to even hope to do anything. And as it's been said before Gero and 19 were able to drain energy from Gokou so yea, Surfer is going to do it. And unlike with Vegeta against 19 being healthy isn't going to save Gokou as Surfer will do it faster, and far more efficient.
The only real argument you made during this post was the energy drain (which I cant see happening since DBZ character have complete control of their energy) and the black hole which I cant see pulling goku in. Blast, we have seen what blast vs goku does which ends up with him winking through them and ending up behind his enemy or him simply slappinig the blast out of the air.
Energy blasts are plenty effective against Gokou..it's why he has to dodge them half the time. Special planet destroying blasts. And Gokou isn't 'winking' out and dodging an omni-directional blast....
Originally posted by Kento
No the real argument their is how is Gokou going to get past his shields to even hope to do anything. And as it's been said before Gero and 19 were able to drain energy from Gokou so yea, Surfer is going to do it. And unlike with Vegeta against 19 being healthy isn't going to save Gokou as Surfer will do it faster, and far more efficient.Energy blasts are plenty effective against Gokou..it's why he has to dodge them half the time. Special planet destroying blasts. And Gokou isn't 'winking' out and dodging an omni-directional blast....
Everyone in DBZ verse has shields and shields doesnt do anything when fighting characters like Goku.
Energy drain, you could have an argument here but how fast would Surfer drain Goku before Goku end up being all over him with blast coming from every direction along with a couple of punches per second.
Energy blast is sh** to Goku unless you can deliver it at a speed that he will not be able to see and I cant see Surfer doing this. Yes, Surfer has AMAZING flight speed and some good showings of combat speed but on Gokus level, someone that can be in front of you flying and punch you and move so fast that his body actually went through you, ending with him being behind you, naah, Surfer isnt getting past that. Surfer has as of yet to face someone that fights on the level of Goku when it comes to speed and honestly, frieza was mentioned as a Universal threat and Goku did just fine against him. I could see Surfer falling to Goku.
An Omni-directional blast, its not hitting Goku. This is the same guy that had energy blast and super speed punches going through his body while standing still (didnt even look like he was moving). Surfer best bet is a black hole in which I cant even see him using since the CIS rule is on and its not part of his character to use that on opponents.
Originally posted by NemeBro
That's funny. I recall several characters being vulnerable to Gero and 19's energy draining powers, including Goku. To argue that Goku has more control over his energy than a wielder of the Power Cosmic is hilarious.... How would a black hole not pull Goku in? Even light gets pulled in, and you even admitted that Goku cannot fly at lightspeed, which is what matters.
Not one character in DBZ has the same power output as the Silver Surfer, a single blast would kill him.
I agree, the energy absorption MIGHT work but Surfer wouldnt have the chance to even use it since Goku OR Frieza can cover the battle field almost instantly.
I agree, the black hole could work but I could see Goku teleporting out of it bringing the fight up close and personal in the Surfers face and again, CIS is on, its not in character for Surfer to even use that tactic during battle.
Everyone in DBZ has the same or even more powerout as Surfer, they just have to keep that power in check so that the earth or civilians wont get destroyed. The difference is, Surfer fights in an area where he does not need to hold back whereas lives are in danger when Goku or any other DBZ character let lose.
LOL, Surfer isnt one shotting Goku or Frieza, let alone two or even three shotting them.
Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
About draining energy, Goku already faced robots like Doctor Gero and Android 20 which could drain energy. But since I don't know how SS drains energy, I can't say anything yet. But black hole... Carver, we haven't seen how Goku would fight back if his enemy uses a black hole. What makes you think Goku could handle it?Slapping the energy? Maybe Goku can. He showed it several times. even Fat Buu's kamehameha like energy blast.
Instant transmission>>Black hole. CIS is on.
Everything that I mentioned about Goku, he does these things even when CIS is on. The same cant be said for the Surfer.
Originally posted by carver9No, no they don't. The only one that was shown to have a shield was 17, and Piccolo couldn't break through that. And Surfer has shields that can stand up to a onslaught from Hulk, when Surfer isn't even trying. Gokou isn't breaking through Surfer's shields.
Everyone in DBZ verse has shields and shields doesnt do anything when fighting characters like Goku.Energy drain, you could have an argument here but how fast would Surfer drain Goku before Goku end up being all over him with blast coming from every direction along with a couple of punches per second.
Energy blast is sh** to Goku unless you can deliver it at a speed that he will not be able to see and I cant see Surfer doing this. Yes, Surfer has AMAZING flight speed and some good showings of combat speed but on Gokus level, someone that can be in front of you flying and punch you and move so fast that his body actually went through you, ending with him being behind you, naah, Surfer isnt getting past that. Surfer has as of yet to face someone that fights on the level of Goku when it comes to speed and honestly, frieza was mentioned as a Universal threat and Goku did just fine against him. I could see Surfer falling to Goku.
An Omni-directional blast, its not hitting Goku. This is the same guy that had energy blast and super speed punches going through his body while standing still (didnt even look like he was moving). Surfer best bet is a black hole in which I cant even see him using since the CIS rule is on and its not part of his character to use that on opponents.
Wouldn't matter....Surfer can absorb any of those blasts, Gokou isn't breaking through his defenses even if he doesn't, and Surfer has drained Hulk of energy in seconds iirc. Gokou would be drained instantly.
It's called after-images.. It's not really Gokou going through anybody.
Do you even know what omni-directional means? And keyword there is Gokou was moving, nothing was going through him. He was just moving so fast it looked like it was.
Originally posted by Kento
No, no they don't. The only one that was shown to have a shield was 17, and Piccolo couldn't break through that. And Surfer has shields that can stand up to a onslaught from Hulk, when Surfer isn't even trying. Gokou isn't breaking through Surfer's shields.Wouldn't matter....Surfer can absorb any of those blasts, Gokou isn't breaking through his defenses even if he doesn't, and Surfer has drained Hulk of energy in seconds iirc. Gokou would be drained instantly.
It's called after-images.. It's not really Gokou going through anybody.
Do you even know what omni-directional means? And keyword there is Gokou was moving, nothing was going through him. He was just moving so fast it looked like it was.
Thats Picollo, I'm pretty sure goku during the end of DBZ would have easily broken through 17 shields and Vegeta along with Nappa showed that they had shields when they were attacked by krillin when Krillin took on the Cybermen.
Yeah, Surfer shields took an onslaught from the hulk but to bad goku isnt the hulk. Goku punches harder and yes, Hulk can amp his strength but so can Goku.
Surfer isnt absorbing anything from Goku and he isnt draining Goku instantly. You cant compare what Surfer did to Hulk vs what he will do to Goku. He drained Hulk of Gamma radiation, that is completely different than the energy Goku has and again, Goku has more control of his energy than the hulk.
I know its called after images, I was just giving a discription of what goku could do during combat along with dodging hundreds of punches coming at him like nothing. Goku combat speed is above Surfer or anyone that Surfer has faced. Surfer never faced anyone that use their speed in the fashion Goku uses his.
Yes, I know what that blast is, Thor uses it all the time and again, Surfer isnt hitting Goku with it. You are making it seem like Goku would just be standing still when we both know he will be all over Surfer.