ANIME Fighters VS AMERICAN Superheros

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Iron fist doesnt have superhuman thinking speed. Iron fist is able to amp his physical stats with chi to superhuman levels but this has no bearing on his thinking speed.

Then how can he dodge bullets?

By the time period of the flight, im reffering to the amount of time it takes for wonderwoman to move her hand over supes eyes in comparison with the amount of time it took supes to fly to the sun. Lets say that the time period for supes is 4 seconds. It very possible then for wondy to put her hand over supes eyes within those four seconds at far less than light speed.

But if they were moving faster than light, she wouldn't be able to do a thing since she wouldn't be seeing him (the light would be passing by them so she would be blind). And Superman would be blind too if he couldn't see things faster than light - so putting her hands over his eyes would do nothing and be useless.

Yet it wasn't.

Once again u are confusing the a person reacting while flying at light speed in a comic with another person being able to show those same reactions in a direct physical exchange. First of all superman didnt stop because he coudnt see where he was going but actually because wonderwoman poked his eyes.

But that makes no sense - why would he stop if his goal was to throw her into the sun?

He is then seen cringing in pain in one of the panels. Further superman being able to stop and avoid hitting things while flying at light speed+ goes back to the point of flight reactions vs Physical exchange/combat reactions.

And there is no difference.

To react to someone in combat you need to be able to:

A. Move fast enough to hit them/block their attacks

B. React fast enough to percieve their attacks

Reacting at high speeds shows both of these.

As i said before every character that flys at light speed or anything close to it has to be able to react at such speeds or else they would hit things all the time. Hence the reason guys like Surfer, sentry etc can all fly at such speeds with out having horrible accidents. Heck even Iron man has to have the reactions needed to fly at supersonic speeds. However putting these reactions into play when exchanging punches/kicks with an opponent is something that is generally not seen in comics aside from characters like flash.

Surfer has reacted and caught someone in a nanosecond

Iron Man has fought people with his punches measured in milliseconds

Neither Superman nor wonderwoman nor even silver surfer or sentry have ever been depicted fighting( Thats is rapid exchanging of punches/kicks/blows etc) at speeds that can be quantified as being at light speed.

Yes they have - I just named several examples.

In fact, Superman can tag the Flash, who does that stuff all the time. So what does that tell you?

The sacrifice fight is certainly not an example of suchas it shows off supes impressive flight reaction speeds but not much else.

Except Flight speed + reaction speed + combat speed. It's that simple.

There's no magical rule that says that when fighting, all other speed feats suddenly become useless.

Then the Sentry would be much faster than his calculated reaction time of only Mach 32 even though he has no feats to prove it, right?

When was this calculated?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Then how can he dodge bullets?

But if they were moving faster than light, she wouldn't be able to do a thing since she wouldn't be seeing him (the light would be passing by them so she would be blind). And Superman would be blind too if he couldn't see things faster than light - so putting her hands over his eyes would do nothing and be useless.

Yet it wasn't.

But that makes no sense - why would he stop if his goal was to throw her into the sun?

And there is no difference.

To react to someone in combat you need to be able to:

A. Move fast enough to hit them/block their attacks

B. React fast enough to percieve their attacks

Reacting at high speeds shows both of these.

Surfer has reacted and caught someone in a nanosecond

Iron Man has fought people with his punches measured in milliseconds

Yes they have - I just named several examples.

In fact, Superman can tag the Flash, who does that stuff all the time. So what does that tell you?

Except Flight speed + reaction speed + combat speed. It's that simple.

There's no magical rule that says that when fighting, all other speed feats suddenly become useless.

When was this calculated?

Iron fist is able to dodge bullets based on his reflexes. Instinctive movements. However, that does not mean he suddenly has the ability to think in multiple complete sentences within that time.

Your second point goes back to what characters do while flying or travelling fast and what they do while in battle. Superman and any character that flies at anything close to light speed need to be able to see things at superspeed in order to function at all. However, attributes like this are very rarely portrayed outside of these types of situations i.e in direct physical combat.

Also supes stopped out of the pain as he is seen curled up in the panel. He didnt stop because he wanted to, rather it was an instinctive reaction to the eye poke.

Yes I understand that the reactions needed while flying at C speeds are the same ones that are needed in direct physical combat. The point is that the two are not normally portrayed in comics as being interchangeable. Hence out of the numerous guys who can fly at supersonic speeds and above, very very few of them have displayed reactions in direct combat to match those needed for them to fly at the speeds they do.

Who was it that iron man fought where his punches were being measured in milliseconds? Anyhow, as for surfer, he has reacted to blitzes before but has never actually engaged in physical combat where he was punching/kicking at superspeeds let alone light speeds.
And similarly most guys with surfer just dont make use of those same type of reactions in physical combat in the form of rapid blitzing etc.. Hence the reason i say that there is differentiation between them in comics.

Superman tagging the flash does not mean he can suddenly punch numerous times at light speed anymore than hulk tagging quicksilver means he can suddenly punch and kick numerous times at the speed of sound. You gave no example of either superman/wonderwoman/silver surfer/sentry intiating numerous punches and kicks at speeds that can be quantified at light speed. Now im not saying supes cant fight at superspeed h2h because he is one of the few people with uber flight speed that actially has quantified examples of him doing it.( He was creating sonic booms while melee fighting). However, as i repeat, he has nothing of such that can be quantified at light speed.

As i said before The sacrifice fight shows of supes impressive flight speed and reaction speed portrayed while flying. However the sort of speed portrayed there, (based on the comics) is not interchangeable with the speed that would be needed to punch a person numerous times at the speed of light.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

When was this calculated?

Nothing that would hint that Sentry is capable of reacting anywhere close to lightspeed, even though he can fly at those speeds in SPACE, just like Clark can.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Iron fist is able to dodge bullets based on his reflexes. Instinctive movements. However, that does not mean he suddenly has the ability to think in multiple complete sentences within that time.

Does it matter? All he needs to do is to be able to act effectively. That counts as reaction speed.

Your second point goes back to what characters do while flying or travelling fast and what they do while in battle. Superman and any character that flies at anything close to light speed need to be able to see things at superspeed in order to function at all. However, attributes like this are very rarely portrayed outside of these types of situations i.e in direct physical combat.

Superman could see planets on the end of the universe in real - time, that's an application.

Also supes stopped out of the pain as he is seen curled up in the panel. He didnt stop because he wanted to, rather it was an instinctive reaction to the eye poke.

But that makes no sense - if he had all of that momentum, wouldn't it be easier to just keep going until he hit the sun? Furthermore, the ability to react at all in that time proves FTL reactions.

Yes I understand that the reactions needed while flying at C speeds are the same ones that are needed in direct physical combat. The point is that the two are not normally portrayed in comics as being interchangeable. Hence out of the numerous guys who can fly at supersonic speeds and above, very very few of them have displayed reactions in direct combat to match those needed for them to fly at the speeds they do.

Because you need it explicitly stated or something?

I can show you panels of Superman fighting people at super speed, and since we know he can move and react faster than lightspeed, it's simple to put 2 and 2 together. Someone is not going to write a page where it says "he punches at 2.6 times the speed of light" or something. That kind of narration just doesn't happen.

Honestly, the idea that he can do all of this stuff at super speed but when he's fighting he magically slows down a billion times for no reason is just retarded.

Who was it that iron man fought where his punches were being measured in milliseconds?

It's in his respect thread

I found it:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8297/imreaction1sr7.jpg

Anyhow, as for surfer, he has reacted to blitzes before but has never actually engaged in physical combat where he was punching/kicking at superspeeds let alone light speeds.

He fought the runner through space at super speed

[quote[And similarly most guys with surfer just dont make use of those same type of reactions in physical combat in the form of rapid blitzing etc.. Hence the reason i say that there is differentiation between them in comics.[/quote]

Only if you use double standards

Superman tagging the flash does not mean he can suddenly punch numerous times at light speed anymore than hulk tagging quicksilver means he can suddenly punch and kick numerous times at the speed of sound. You gave no example of either superman/wonderwoman/silver surfer/sentry intiating numerous punches and kicks at speeds that can be quantified at light speed.

I've proved he can move that fast - I've proved he can react that fast - what more needs to be said?

Asking for specific combinations is just inane. I might as well ask you to prove that Superman can use his heat vision on Sunday.

[quote[Now im not saying supes cant fight at superspeed h2h because he is one of the few people with uber flight speed that actially has quantified examples of him doing it.( He was creating sonic booms while melee fighting). However, as i repeat, he has nothing of such that can be quantified at light speed.[/quote]

Except for all his reaction speed feats....

As i said before The sacrifice fight shows of supes impressive flight speed and reaction speed portrayed while flying. However the sort of speed portrayed there, (based on the comics) is not interchangeable with the speed that would be needed to punch a person numerous times at the speed of light.

And why not? He can move his body that fast, he can react that fast.... it's simple deductive reasoning.

Forgot where the calculations were, but it's the time where he caught a bullet after it was fired from about ten feet away.

Okay, so then why do you assume that is his maximum reaction speed?

Nothing that would hint that Sentry is capable of reacting anywhere close to lightspeed, even though he can fly at those speeds in SPACE, just like Clark can.

Then how is he able to turn around and notice this:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6805/scan00202ii.jpg

When he is moving that fast?

Although I will admit I am not a Sentry expert (I am not a major fan of him either)

Firstly the only reason i brought up the whole iron fist thing is because u talked about dialogue while moving at superspeed counting for something. I brought up the iron fist thing to show that it doesnt.

Nextly,the thing about a character needing to see things while flying at superspeed speed applies not only to superman but all characters who fly fast( hence those who do not have supes type of vision). If this was regularly applied to fights, they would see all the punches coming at them in slow motion and easily dodge all of them. Something that doesnt happen

And now to explain the rest. For characters who regularly fight at superspeed like Flash and Zoom etc. The speed that they can fight at has been quantified within the comics. Hence weve seen guys like flash and zoom actually fighting at the speed of light. The speed they were fighting at was quantified within the comic whether through time frame,statements from the characters or even narration. And no its not retarded for him not show his reflexes while in battle, its "in character". Im not sure if those rules apply here, but im using he rules of the comic versus forum which talk about fighting "in character" or in other words CIS is on. Hence things which are obviously within his or anybody elses abilities but which he consistenly fails to display in the comics regardless of the plot( Hence not PIS) are out of character and not valid.

Surfer didnt really fight the runner at superspeed. They talked while moving at superspeed then the runner cheapshotted SS off his board. SS got back on his board and the runner stole it from him and started running away. SS made his board return to him charged at the runner and had it stolen again. After that he and runner began a test of strength on the board whch runner won and that was it. Fighting at light speed isnt an in character move for SS either

No me asking for instances of supes doing such in direct combat situations is simply me asking you to prove that i is an in character move for to supes to fight that way. If heat vision was an ability that supes didnt use in battle then it wud be similar.

Supes can move his body fast and react that fast but hasnt put these abilities together in direct physical combat and hence it would be out of character for him to do so in a forum fight.( by comic versus forum rules anyway).

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Firstly the only reason i brought up the whole iron fist thing is because u talked about dialogue while moving at superspeed counting for something. I brought up the iron fist thing to show that it doesnt.

I was talking about thinking, actually.

[quote[Nextly,the thing about a character needing to see things while flying at superspeed speed applies not only to superman but all characters who fly fast( hence those who do not have supes type of vision). If this was regularly applied to fights, they would see all the punches coming at them in slow motion and easily dodge all of them. Something that doesnt happen[/quote]

Unless their opponents punches are at super speed too

And now to explain the rest. For characters who regularly fight at superspeed like Flash and Zoom etc. The speed that they can fight at has been quantified within the comics. Hence weve seen guys like flash and zoom actually fighting at the speed of light. The speed they were fighting at was quantified within the comic whether through time frame,statements from the characters or even narration. And no its not retarded for him not show his reflexes while in battle, its "in character". Im not sure if those rules apply here, but im using he rules of the comic versus forum which talk about fighting "in character" or in other words CIS is on. Hence things which are obviously within his or anybody elses abilities but which he consistenly fails to display in the comics regardless of the plot( Hence not PIS) are out of character and not valid.

Except we know he can move that fast, we know he can react that fast, and we know he can fight fast - do you really need more? The rules do state that combatants fight to their "full capacity"

Also, I thought of something: Superman's last punch to Wonder Woman in the Sacrifice arc must have been FTL, since it knocked her to earth at FTL speeds (it takes light 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun and the whole fight took 1 minute and 54 seconds). Punching her slower than light wouldn't have been able to do that. So we know at least that punch was FTL

Surfer didnt really fight the runner at superspeed. They talked while moving at superspeed then the runner cheapshotted SS off his board. SS got back on his board and the runner stole it from him and started running away. SS made his board return to him charged at the runner and had it stolen again. After that he and runner began a test of strength on the board whch runner won and that was it. Fighting at light speed isnt an in character move for SS either

They were doing all that when moving at faster than light speeds through space, though

No me asking for instances of supes doing such in direct combat situations is simply me asking you to prove that i is an in character move for to supes to fight that way. If heat vision was an ability that supes didnt use in battle then it wud be similar.

See above

Supes can move his body fast and react that fast but hasnt put these abilities together in direct physical combat and hence it would be out of character for him to do so in a forum fight.( by comic versus forum rules anyway).

So it's out of character for him to do stuff that he has proven to be able to do, except in a different situation?

By that logic, since we've never seen him use ice breath against Thor, it would be out of character for him to do so

Iron Man vs Nappa

Iron Man will over power Nappa by being way to strong physically.

While he is stronger, can he react quick enough, and Nappa has been shown to set off nukes by raising his fingers, how would Ironman's armor hold out to a nuke?

Originally posted by dvampire
Iron Man will over power Nappa by being way to strong physically.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I was talking about thinking, actually.

[quote[Nextly,the thing about a character needing to see things while flying at superspeed speed applies not only to superman but all characters who fly fast( hence those who do not have supes type of vision). If this was regularly applied to fights, they would see all the punches coming at them in slow motion and easily dodge all of them. Something that doesnt happen

Unless their opponents punches are at super speed too

Except we know he can move that fast, we know he can react that fast, and we know he can fight fast - do you really need more? The rules do state that combatants fight to their "full capacity"

Also, I thought of something: Superman's last punch to Wonder Woman in the Sacrifice arc must have been FTL, since it knocked her to earth at FTL speeds (it takes light 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun and the whole fight took 1 minute and 54 seconds). Punching her slower than light wouldn't have been able to do that. So we know at least that punch was FTL

They were doing all that when moving at faster than light speeds through space, though

See above

So it's out of character for him to do stuff that he has proven to be able to do, except in a different situation?

By that logic, since we've never seen him use ice breath against Thor, it would be out of character for him to do so [/QUOTE]

Surfer and runner werent moving at FTL speed through space. there was nothing to indicate that at all.

The rules state that combatants fight at full capacity within their given characters. And ur analogy is way off. If superman rarely used ice breath in battle regardless of the opponent, then it wud be out of character for him to do so. Not against a particular opponent but regardless of the opponent. Whats in and out of character refers to a characters battle tendencies with his given power set. Not if the character has used attacks on particular characters. Supes has rarely if ever made use of any faster than light reflexes in direct combat and so it wud be out of character for him to do so in a forum fight

Surfer and runner werent moving at FTL speed through space. there was nothing to indicate that at all.

Why were the stars changing in the background between panels, then? (although it's been a while since I read the comic so I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure they were)

The rules state that combatants fight at full capacity within their given characters. And ur analogy is way off. If superman rarely used ice breath in battle regardless of the opponent, then it wud be out of character for him to do so. Not against a particular opponent but regardless of the opponent. Whats in and out of character refers to a characters battle tendencies with his given power set. Not if the character has used attacks on particular characters. Supes has rarely if ever made use of any faster than light reflexes in direct combat and so it wud be out of character for him to do so in a forum fight [/B]

He did against Wonder Woman - FTL punch to earth

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
While he is stronger, can he react quick enough, and Nappa has been shown to set off nukes by raising his fingers, how would Ironman's armor hold out to a nuke?

IM fought people like Sentry and Surfer both who are way faster than Nappa in speed. He's been shown to be able to move at mach speeds and his Amor has been shown to react to beam attacks aswell. Iron Man has taken nukes before and he's taken hits from people like Hulk, Thor, and Sentry.

Originally posted by Kento
Does that go for current and classic?

Current IM in his Extremis Armor.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Why were the stars changing in the background between panels, then? (although it's been a while since I read the comic so I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure they were)

He did against Wonder Woman - FTL punch to earth

There was no notable difference in the background between panels. the only point were th background even changed was when both SS and runner started a test of strength on SS board. At that point there were numeruous blurred lines in the background. However even if at that point they were moving at FTL speed, they made no notable movements. All they were doing as standing toe to toe on SS in a test of strength which at that point was in a standstill.

As for the punch to earth, id agree if this werent comics we are talking about. In comics, the speed of a punch that hits an object is rarely the deciding factor in how fast that object is propelled or in other words the actual power of the punch. It has more to do with strength. Guys like Hulk and Thor have all sent people flying into orbit at high speeds without their punches themselves neccessarily having the speed needed to do so.

Nappa ftw !!

Nappa will shit stomp Stark, easily.

and I've still yet to see Supes go light speed combat wise in all the years I've read him.

😄 The power of a Saiyan elite is too much for tony as awsome as he may be !!

If by awesome you mean sucking ass then I agree.

The Darkness (Jackie Estacado) vs. Orochimaru

I haven't done this in a while, so...

Punisher vs Revy (Black Lagoon)

Who wins?