ANIME Fighters VS AMERICAN Superheros

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
If he could destroy a sun, (he can't) then where would he go? He would kill himself by doing that and Superman would just go back to Metropolis.

Metropolis on Earth, eh? Well, that'll be fun for him.
And Vegeta could fire off a ki blast, get in the Saiyan space pod, and go wherever he wanted...most likely a planet with a red giant/brown dwarf instead of a yellow star.

Firstly, as your so keen to point out usually Kento, GT isn't canon. Secondly, there's no way that was Goku SSJ4 at his full power- he didn't take very long to power up, and he'd just spent the last 30 mins being beaten nearly to death by Bebi Vegeta. Thirdly, just because they DIDN'T destroy the sun doesn't mean they CAN'T destroy the sun- in the case of Broly, most of the power is presumably being counteracted by Broly, for one thing, and it's only the power of a few SSJ1's and a Namekian, all of whom were a moderately injured by this point.

Also, the problem with Superman is he's got too much canon- it's not consistent across the whole thing. The explanation given that the yellow sun is the source of his power explains (sort of) why he can survive flying through the sun- but it means that a sufficiently powerful ki blast- like a Spirit Bomb- should be able to destroy him if a) they destroy the sun or b) they can power it up to be more intense than the sun.

As for the reason that planets aren't destroyed on a regular basis from the Android Saga onwards- it's because the Z fighters aren't idiots, and would sort of prefer not to blow up the planet, taking themselves and their families with it.

For an example of an attack that does use more than enough energy to destroy the planet, Vegeta's Final Flash- Trunks and Krillen are certain that the attack will destroy the planet if it hits the surface, but Vegeta focuses and directs it to curve away from the planet after hitting Cell- it goes off into space out of sight.
A Final Flash from EoZ SSJ2 Vegeta should be more than enough to destroy the sun- more likely that than the Kamehameha because it's more focused and controlled.

Well he stil has enough time to kill vegeta inbetween the sun being destroyed and him getting weaker. And he would kill in that situation cuase the whole earth will die

If Superman is trying to kill Vegeta, as opposed to just fighting, then Goku would try to help- and Goku has Instant Transmission.

Originally posted by jimBOFH

And Vegeta could fire off a ki blast, get in the Saiyan space pod, and go wherever he wanted...most likely a planet with a red giant/brown dwarf instead of a yellow star.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
If Superman is trying to kill Vegeta, as opposed to just fighting, then Goku would try to help- and Goku has Instant Transmission.

if you do anything that will destroy earth then yes supes will kill you. and so goku is gona just run away with vegeta? cuz in a fight i'm sure that supes and Kc supes will beat them (and yes they live on the same earth)

....and now we have full blown Goku vs Superman..congratulations on ruining the thread.

Vegeta wouldn't need to run away- just to fight on ground that doesn't favour superman. And this did start out as an all-anime vs All Superheroes....and, wait a second, Vegeta doesn't need to fight Superman at all- just distract him while Light Yagami uses the Death Note. 😛

But even if they did fight- Vegeta can destroy the sun. If he does this at the beginning of the fight, Superman won't have time to power up properly- not unless he thinks he can challenge Vegeta's attack head on, which is unlikely to say the least. And sure Vegeta's running at this point, he can't survive in open space and a supernova would reach the earth. So he needs to get his family and friends away, and relocate somewhere with a red star.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Vegeta wouldn't need to run away- just to fight on ground that doesn't favour superman. And this did start out as an all-anime vs All Superheroes....and, wait a second, Vegeta doesn't need to fight Superman at all- just distract him while Light Yagami uses the Death Note. 😛

But even if they did fight- Vegeta can destroy the sun. If he does this at the beginning of the fight, Superman won't have time to power up properly- not unless he thinks he can challenge Vegeta's attack head on, which is unlikely to say the least. And sure Vegeta's running at this point, he can't survive in open space and a supernova would reach the earth. So he needs to get his family and friends away, and relocate somewhere with a red star.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
I wasn't aware that the Death Note could kill ALIENS, or that Vegeta was a star buster. Good job making up stuff.

Death Note's never been tested on aliens- i don't see why it wouldn't work. As for Vegeta not being a star buster- he's far more powerful than Frieza ever was, and by EoZ, he's had 10 more years of severe training than he had at Kid Buu saga (for how much his power increases in a year, see the HTC in the Cell Saga). Buu destroyed "entire galaxies"- a prerequisite for that is being a starbuster. So yes, EoZ Vegeta is more than capable of destroying a star, or he wouldn't have been able to damage Buu with his attacks at all when he fought him, and 10 years later he should be more than 30 times as strong at the very least (He more than triples his strength in the HTC, which is 1 year of training. And this is presuming the increase is linear not exponential.)

Originally posted by Kento
As for Cell..Buu Saga proves his words false. I don't think he was bluffing so much as...not knowing but thinking he could. It's not like Cell or anybody at all that fought or watched knows how much energy one would need to do it anyway.

Z fighters would know if he was bluffing.Vegeta can destroy a planet at 20000 PL, Freiza destroyed planet Vegeta 10X gravity of earth. at PL 500,000. Cell's PL is around hundreds of millions(maybe). And the writer won't mention it if he didnt intend for Cell to have that power.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Everything about All Star was amped up, of course the sun amps regular Supes but its not the same as it was for All Star. Broly could destroy a sun, he destroyed at least a galaxy. He didn't try to destroy the sun, the wound from being stabbed as a baby exploded from the pressure of the kameha smashing him into the sun. As for Bebi I didn't watch much of GT because besides it sucking it made no sense. Was ssj4 Goku right at the sun focusing his attack on it or did it travel from the earth to the sun with Bebi as a buffer?

As for Buu I don't see how that proves anything in regards to Cell's kameha. Buu's attack was too large and too sudden for Goku to deflect, it wasn't about power. Cell was a ssj2 and spent all day charging his kameha, he put his full power into it, Kid Buu just raised his hand and threw his. Vegeta as a ssj2 was able to give Kid Buu a fight. Still Buu had destroyed several hundred planets in just a few years before he had IT so I'm not arguing anything Cell could do was beyond him but Cell's last resort could outdo Buu's casual.

All I remember seeing somebody say was All-Star Supes was amped 10x's normal just by going in. Nobody knows how much canon Superman amps by going near. I don't remember anything being said about their powers amping the same amount. *shrugs*

Broli was blasted into the sun by Gokou, Gohan, and Goten all at full power. There Kamehameha hit the sun and it did nothing to it. Bebi..I don't know if it was Earth of not that Gokou shot the Kamehameha from. It still hit the sun, and ssj4 Kamehameha > Cooler.

Buu charged up his blast, Gokou can go ssj3 instant, and he had Vegeta to help him. Just a planet destroyed blast should have been childs play to people who can destroy galaxies yet Gokou and Vegeta were freaking out over it. Gokou had time to fly, get Mr. Satan, and Dende, after trying to talk Buu out of using the blast. Plenty of time to go ssj3 and blast himself with Vegeta's help it should've been over kill. Ssj2 Vegeta was wrecked hardcore by Kid Buu in less than a minute...The only time he isn't is in the anime. And like I said it wasn't a casual blast. He charged it up, and it is about power because a planet busting attack should be nothing yet they were scared of it. And what do you mean Cell spent all day charging his Kamehameha?

And the Broli into the sun was done by two competely fine saiyans, and one beat up saiyan. Gokou didn't even fight Broli cause he was dead, and Goten was running around while Trunks got beaten up. Gohan was the only saiyan that blasted Broli into the sun that was remotely hurt.

@Fuuma - Power Levels don't translate to how much bigger things they can blow up...Just who could effortlessly beat who. And they can't suddenly know how much power is needed to do something nobody has ever done before. And the writers can make anybody say what they want. Doesn't mean somebody saying something is always true.

@Fuuma - Power Levels don't translate to how much bigger things they can blow up...Just who could effortlessly beat who. And they can't suddenly know how much power is needed to do something nobody has ever done before. And the writers can make anybody say what they want. Doesn't mean somebody saying something is always true.

if Frieza destroyed planet vegeta easily with only 500000 PL, then Cell with much more PL and used every of his strength to shot a kamehameha can't do much worse? it is as strong as Gohan's kamehameha when he's in "SSJ2" state and obviously stronger than Frieza's blast. besides, it's about logic. but if you said Cell's full powered blast is weaker than Frieza, then I won't argue anymore.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
if Frieza destroyed planet vegeta easily with only 500000 PL, then Cell with much more PL and used every of his strength to shot a kamehameha can't do much worse? it is as strong as Gohan's kamehameha when he's in "SSJ2" state and obviously stronger than Frieza's blast. besides, it's about logic. but if you said Cell's full powered blast is weaker than Frieza, then I won't argue anymore.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Metropolis on Earth, eh? Well, that'll be fun for him.
And Vegeta could fire off a ki blast, get in the Saiyan space pod, and go wherever he wanted...most likely a planet with a red giant/brown dwarf instead of a yellow star.

Firstly, as your so keen to point out usually Kento, GT isn't canon. Secondly, there's no way that was Goku SSJ4 at his full power- he didn't take very long to power up, and he'd just spent the last 30 mins being beaten nearly to death by Bebi Vegeta. Thirdly, just because they DIDN'T destroy the sun doesn't mean they CAN'T destroy the sun- in the case of Broly, most of the power is presumably being counteracted by Broly, for one thing, and it's only the power of a few SSJ1's and a Namekian, all of whom were a moderately injured by this point.

Also, the problem with Superman is he's got too much canon- it's not consistent across the whole thing. The explanation given that the yellow sun is the source of his power explains (sort of) why he can survive flying through the sun- but it means that a sufficiently powerful ki blast- like a Spirit Bomb- should be able to destroy him if a) they destroy the sun or b) they can power it up to be more intense than the sun.

As for the reason that planets aren't destroyed on a regular basis from the Android Saga onwards- it's because the Z fighters aren't idiots, and would sort of prefer not to blow up the planet, taking themselves and their families with it.

For an example of an attack that does use more than enough energy to destroy the planet, Vegeta's Final Flash- Trunks and Krillen are certain that the attack will destroy the planet if it hits the surface, but Vegeta focuses and directs it to curve away from the planet after hitting Cell- it goes off into space out of sight.
A Final Flash from EoZ SSJ2 Vegeta should be more than enough to destroy the sun- more likely that than the Kamehameha because it's more focused and controlled.

First of all Red Suns don't even exist in the DBZ world and Vegeta isn't going to doom humanity to death just to beat Superman. Hell Goku would stop him before he even tried even though he can't destroy a sun. There is no proof that he can.

Second of all it will be hard for him to make a spirit bomb without a sun and even if he did a spirit bomb would help Superman. 1. it can't hurt someone who is pure of heart and Superman is pure. 2. It is powered by natural force and the SUN so it would more than likely power him up.

Also where in the hell is he going to get a saiyan space pod from anyway? He would have to take the time to find a planet with a red sun, but I'm sure in your scenario he already knows where one is. Superman is faster than his pod and would crush it before it left the earth's atmosphere.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I dont consider surfer as unhittable in fights, most of the time im not for that line of reasoning. However i only brought up surfers bullrushing as a method of him winning because someone suggested that surfer might be unable to hit goku. Surfer has many other means of winning other than bullrushing goku.

Logically but you should also consider what kind of creature and fighter is Silver Silver in an on panel comics not logically based on his powers alone, because fights in the comics usually beat logic. Just to remind you, power cosmic cannot absorb or control Ki. In the comics, thinking out of the box is not applicable, you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Kento
When did I ever say Freeza's blast > Cell's? I said power levels only mean who can easily beat who and has no bearing on what they can destroy. Cell saying he can destroy the solar system doesn't mean he can. Cell randomly saying 'I have enough power to destroy the solar system' is just him saying that. Doesn't mean it's true. Sebastian Shaw has said he could bend adamantium before but that doesn't make it true. Superman has claimed his punches can destroy small planets yet a lot of people don't buy that, and a few of those people believe Cell's solar system destroying words. Burta has called himself the fastest in the universe I believe...yet Freeza was much faster than he was. You can find people saying things untrue all the time, bragging or actually believing it's true but still untrue just the same.

No, it was stated that scouter measures power which means power level is a measurement of how much power and not just a simple who can easily beat who. Superman claiming his punches can destroy small planets has no measurement in an on panel comics where there is a colossal battle just like what happened in Cell's fight. Burta claiming to be fastest in the universe was proven wrong twice while Cell's solar system destroying power has no evidence in an on panel manga to prove us that it's just a hyperbole or a lie. Cell's solar system destroying power is fact until proven wrong in an on panel manga.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Vegeta wouldn't need to run away- just to fight on ground that doesn't favour superman. And this did start out as an all-anime vs All Superheroes....and, wait a second, Vegeta doesn't need to fight Superman at all- just distract him while Light Yagami uses the Death Note. 😛

But even if they did fight- Vegeta can destroy the sun. If he does this at the beginning of the fight, Superman won't have time to power up properly- not unless he thinks he can challenge Vegeta's attack head on, which is unlikely to say the least. And sure Vegeta's running at this point, he can't survive in open space and a supernova would reach the earth. So he needs to get his family and friends away, and relocate somewhere with a red star.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Unsuccessful troll is unsucessful 😛

Death Note's never been tested on aliens- i don't see why it wouldn't work. As for Vegeta not being a star buster- he's far more powerful than Frieza ever was, and by EoZ, he's had 10 more years of severe training than he had at Kid Buu saga (for how much his power increases in a year, see the HTC in the Cell Saga). Buu destroyed "entire galaxies"- a prerequisite for that is being a starbuster. So yes, EoZ Vegeta is more than capable of destroying a star, or he wouldn't have been able to damage Buu with his attacks at all when he fought him, and 10 years later he should be more than 30 times as strong at the very least (He more than triples his strength in the HTC, which is 1 year of training. And this is presuming the increase is linear not exponential.)

You are the troll. It wouldn't work because they are not from earth. Light can't touch Superman.

1. He is an alien
2. Kent is not his last name
3. Kal-El is one name
4. He wouldn't even know that Kal-El was his real name and also see 3 in case you think he could find it out.
5. Aliens don't exist in the DN world so they can't work on something that doesn't exist to them.
6. There is no proof that it could affect aliens let alone aliens with no last name.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Logically but you should also consider what kind of creature and fighter is Silver Silver in an on panel comics not logically based on his powers alone, because fights in the comics usually beat logic. Just to remind you, power cosmic cannot absorb or control Ki. In the comics, thinking out of the box is not applicable, you know what I mean.

No, it was stated that scouter measures power which means power level is a measurement of how much power and not just a simple who can easily beat who. Superman claiming his punches can destroy small planets has no measurement in an on panel comics where there is a colossal battle just like what happened in Cell's fight. Burta claiming to be fastest in the universe was proven wrong twice while Cell's solar system destroying power has no evidence in an on panel manga to prove us that it's just a hyperbole or a lie. Cell's solar system destroying power is fact until proven wrong in an on panel manga.

Cell's power was proven wrong. Buu charged up a blast that Gokou and Vegeta freaked out over because they didn't have rhe power to block it. And the solar system was fine.

@Wei - El is Supermans last name. He's from the house of El. No reason DN couldn't work if Light knew the name Kal-el. Death is death no matter.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Logically but you should also consider what kind of creature and fighter is Silver Silver in an on panel comics not logically based on his powers alone, because fights in the comics usually beat logic. Just to remind you, power cosmic cannot absorb or control Ki. In the comics, thinking out of the box is not applicable, you know what I mean.

Personally i try to only use whats on panel. Thats doesnt mean if i see something stupid happen in a comic (like spiderman defeating thor ) i will use it in an argument. That is because the characters would not be using their abilities to the level sthey ahve shown to be capable of on panel.

Now to the fight, surfer doesnt need to absorb ki to beat goku or any other zi fighter soundly. He is way too durable for any of them and has extremely durable forcefields. Also his matter manipulation abilities ( which he has displayed on panel) can end this fight in the first few seconds via devolution, converting them into objects, disintegrating their molecules etc.. He also easily end the fight by encasing them in ethel energy or temporal BFR into the microverse as well as just blasting them to pieces. Really if surfer was pissed off, hed just take goku to the astral plane and that would be the end of it. these are all aspects of his powers surfer has and does use in his battles in comics. Goku or any DBZ character for that matter is simply outclassed.

Originally posted by Kento
Cell's power was proven wrong. Buu charged up a blast that Gokou and Vegeta freaked out over because they didn't have rhe power to block it. And the solar system was fine.

Buu charged up his blast, Gokou can go ssj3 instant, and he had Vegeta to help him. Just a planet destroyed blast should have been childs play to people who can destroy galaxies yet Gokou and Vegeta were freaking out over it. Gokou had time to fly, get Mr. Satan, and Dende, after trying to talk Buu out of using the blast. Plenty of time to go ssj3 and blast himself with Vegeta's help it should've been over kill. Ssj2 Vegeta was wrecked hardcore by Kid Buu in less than a minute...The only time he isn't is in the anime. And like I said it wasn't a casual blast. He charged it up, and it is about power because a planet busting attack should be nothing yet they were scared of it. And what do you mean Cell spent all day charging his Kamehameha?

No, the kamehas went flying off earth and we don't see them again. Once again not one time did Goku or Vegeta say the blast was too powerful for them. ssj3 Goku can match Kid Buu so that alone proves it wasn't about the strength of the blast. Goku specifically says the blast was too big to deflect like they had previously deflected the small planet buster.

Buu raised his hand in one mini panel and in the next the blast was there. I don't believe much time was passing during Buu's throw of the blast, for one it took them by surprise, and two during the whole segment mini panels are used repeatedly. Also Goku didn't have time to use his IT effectively, the Kai's had to come and help. I don't know what you expected Goku and Vegeta to do, if they had blasted Buu's blast then it explodes and still fvcks up Earth. Also Vegeta was able to attack and react to Buu's attack while still in his base form, a big difference from earlier where he was getting one shotted by androids.
They weren't any more scared of the blast than they are anytime someone plans on destroying the planet, they are worried about the planet not themselves. A couple chapters earlier during Buu and Gotenks fight both of them almost destroyed the planet and Piccolo freaked.

Even if you believe Buu charged it, he definitely didn't spend any considerable time charging it, it was formed in the span of a couple of mini panels. So it was definitely casual in comparison to Cell's last resort, which was one of the longer charges we see in the series, he spent over a chapter just charging. So again its not a stretch at all to think Cell's kameha was stronger than Buu's random blast.

Originally posted by Kento

Broli was blasted into the sun by Gokou, Gohan, and Goten all at full power. There Kamehameha hit the sun and it did nothing to it. Bebi..I don't know if it was Earth of not that Gokou shot the Kamehameha from. It still hit the sun, and ssj4 Kamehameha > Cooler.

And the Broli into the sun was done by two competely fine saiyans, and one beat up saiyan. Gokou didn't even fight Broli cause he was dead, and Goten was running around while Trunks got beaten up. Gohan was the only saiyan that blasted Broli into the sun that was remotely hurt.

lol no way it was full power when they had just been trashed by Broly for a movie and were barely moving 20 seconds ago. We don't see the kameha hit the sun we see it hit Broly and smash him into the sun. and just before we see trunks' little blast act as enough of a buffer to stop Broly's blasts from progressing into the kameha. and you are forgetting the kameha had to travel all the way to the sun. Its not like Goku IT'd to the sun and focused a kameha on it. Really though when I watched it I thought Goku's spirit was there more than him actually being there physically, I remember he was even see through for a while.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Personally i try to only use whats on panel. Thats doesnt mean if i see something stupid happen in a comic (like spiderman defeating thor ) i will use it in an argument. That is because the characters would not be using their abilities to the level sthey ahve shown to be capable of on panel.

Now to the fight, surfer doesnt need to absorb ki to beat goku or any other zi fighter soundly. He is way too durable for any of them and has extremely durable forcefields. Also his matter manipulation abilities ( which he has displayed on panel) can end this fight in the first few seconds via devolution, converting them into objects, disintegrating their molecules etc.. He also easily end the fight by encasing them in ethel energy or temporal BFR into the microverse as well as just blasting them to pieces. Really if surfer was pissed off, hed just take goku to the astral plane and that would be the end of it. these are all aspects of his powers surfer has and does use in his battles in comics. Goku or any DBZ character for that matter is simply outclassed.

Is anyone still arguing against Surfer? I don't agree with all of this like the too durable part because they can output enough to hurt him but they can't beat him. and they have some matter manip resistance but Surfer still has way too many tools at his disposal, time manip, astral plane, bfr for most of them, devolution would probably work, etc. He's too much for them.